In need of a change
I think there is still A LOT to do for this game, and many ways to improve it.
In the long run, it gets more repetitive than it should be, with killers tunneling survivors until they die, from the moment they are found, and survivors trying to escape, until their chase ends on a hook.
So, here I have a few ideas which I think would make the game better, some about gameplay, some just about intel.
Before we get to it, let's try to keep the usual toxicity out of here, and people whose contribution would be things like "git gud", please get out of here without even reading. If you want to disagree, that's fine to me, but do it in a civilized way. I will range from killer to survivor, so here we go.
Tunneling and camping: Two of the things, both in the killer's hands, which make the game the most unfun experience it can be. 90% of the killers I've run into, both in personal gameplay and youtube videos, only seem to tunnel that very same person, until they finally manage to get the hook. Sure, there are pallets, but those are not just for personal use, you have to leave them available for teammates too. I have a different definition of these two terms, anyway. To me, tunneling is following the same survivor, even for a hour, until you manage to get him on the hook. If you happen to be very close by, whenever a survivor is unhooked, that is not tunneling, as it is only clever to go after the weaker target (unless you keep chasing him the whole game). If you are chasing another guy while the hooked one gets saved and you leave the chase just so you can get the guy who has just been saved, that is tunneling, however close you might be. Camping, on the other hand, is not to be considered as such, if the exit gates are open AND the hooked survivor is very close to one of them. If you know for sure another survivor is near, trying to get the save, that's also not camping. In these scenarios, I prefer to define that as "securing kills". But if you stand still in front of a hooked survivor or go back to check on him every minute, that is camping.
Now that we got the definitions, let's talk about how to address them. There should be some big, perceivable punishment for this. As a game, it is meant to entertain, each and every single one of those who are playing it. And it's true, it's not the killer's concern to make you have fun. It is the developers' job to make that true. Losing out on emblems is not as perceivable as it should be. I would suggest halving (or even less) the BP gain for those who camp, while still taking into consideration if the hooked guy is the last survivor or if there are any survivors near. As for tunneling, I don't know how to address that without punishing the killer just for facing good survivors but, if you have any suggestions about that, you're welcome. The only thing I can think about as of right now, would be that of giving the tunneled player an increasing interaction speed bonus the longer he has been tunneled, which ends after 10 seconds from when he lost the killer (being hooked does not count). The killer, on the other hand, could get a momentary nerf to his interaction speed and hit cooldown.Bloodlust: Another problem here, killers are rewared for not breaking pallets during a chase and for respecting said pallets. I would completely remove this mechanic, or at least make it so it doesn't go over Bloodlust I. Another thing I was thinking about is to let that be the same as it is now, but remove all tiers in case of a missed hit, be it because of hitting obstacles or nothing at all.
Killer tiers: Aren't you tired to always find yourself facing Billys, Nurses or Myers? There has to be some variety in a game, and other killers need to be made viable too. But viable does not mean they must act as different skins of previously quoted killers, each applying the same pressure a Billy can. And it does not mean each killer should be godly either, or have abusive and unnecessary mechanics like innate aura reading (Freddy). Especially in a game like this, where balancement can be such a thin line, these things need to be very well thought, before they are applied.
Evil Within III: There is not much to say here, except for the fact that having a 60 sec instadown with increased lunge and move speed is too much. I would lower it to 30-35 secs. Not to mention the infinite EWIII add-on...
"Crutch" perks: Some perks need to be redesigned or at least partially reworked. I am talking about Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, No One Escapes Death. I think 95% of the community, including myself, is waiting for the announced DS rework. Exhaustion perks like DH and SB have too much of a little cooldown, DH especially. In a way, though, extending SB's cooldown would take up a perk slot for a limited time use. Dead Hard should get in line with the other exhaustion perks and have a 60sec cooldown, while all exhaustion perks should not be able to reset their cooldown if you are hooked. No One Escapes Death was fine as it was before, there really was no need to apply the Exposed status effect to each tier, making the perk abused in almost every match. Other perks which are part of the game but are NEVER used (e.g. Slippery Meat, Kindred, Prove Thyself, Territorial Imperative, Surveillance and so on) should be redesigned to have additional or completely different effects.
Strong perks: Perks like BBQ & Chilli (which is just one of the examples) need to be more thought about and better balanced. There is no counter this perk (unless you want your teammates to die, in that case you might as well opt for Sole Survivor). Sure, you can get in a certain radius from the hooked survivor, but a good killer will know you're near, if your aura is not shown to him. So he will spot you, either you're close or far. And no, crouching behind gens is not a counter.
BP farming (saves): As I mentioned in another thread, there should be a way to push a button whenever you want to prevent others from saving you just for points, since both you and them know the killer is coming. It should be applied to every hook phase, and work like a turn on/off.
Info and loadout limitations: There should be a way for the killer to check, in game, if some people are part of the same group. Like HybridPanda suggested, there could be some numbers added below survivors, while in lobby, to immediately know if they are part of the same SWF group. Each group would have a number and a color of their own. Say there is a 3 people SWF and a solo player; the SWF group members would all have a blue "1" below their avatar, while the solo player would have an orange "2". I would also like (again suggested by Panda) each player to display a portrait of the survivor they were using, in the end game page.
To put a limit to toxicity, there could be a limitation to the number of flashlights and toolboxes that can be brought into a game from the lobby. Flashlight would be limited to 1 and toolboxes to 2, no matter if it's a SWF group or solo players.Totems: I would really like to have a on HUD indicator which shows how many totems (hex or dull) are still up, to both killer and survivors. It would also be a way to encourage players into seeking out those totems, instead of only focusing on gens. Also, some more points could be rewarded for breaking both hex and dull totems.
Map balancing: The new pallet and hook system that was created with the mid-chapter patch is a good thing and a step forward, but every map should be looked at separately while applying these kind of changes. Maps like Family Residence almost have no pallets at all.
Hatch: I would remove the ability, for the killer, to pull survivors who are jumping into the hatch. If I killed three survivors and the last one has to rely on the hatch to make his escape, that's a win to me. For those who really feel the need to tryhard that much, there is always the chance of slugging survivors. This change would completely remove the "need" for hatch standoffs and make won/lost games get by faster. A certain timer could also be added from the moment the hatch opens. When that time ends, the only escape is that of gens. Said timer should be displayed to the last survivor, but not to the killer. In this case though, if the last survivor manages to make his escape with gens, exit doors should open in just 5 seconds, even if the killer has Remember Me.
Comments
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The real problem is that you cant balance the game as long as we have SWF but no ingame voice comms.
Also I dont understand why tunneling is always so negative, same applies to genrush btw.
Its just a player using his brain how to complete his objective most optimally.I mean what am I supposed to do, go for an healthy guy instead of following the unhooked survivor just because they were stupid enough to unhook in front of me?
Nope, you dont stand up at a gen you repaired to 66% just to start another fresh one, do you?No, that you literally be stupid
As long as gentime stays as short as it is, genrush will be a thing because why bother with hex totems or saboing? no just do the gens and get out
As long as chase time is as high and the killer gets no rewards for fresh hooks, why bother with hooking other guys when you can just remove one gen-repairer from the game? (Btw punish tunneling and the game will die
)Oh, and another thing. a lot of the problems are caused by the rank system that mixes casual and competitive players. That should be the first thing they adress and it shouldnt be hard either
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WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO PUNISH A CAMPING KILLER?!?
ffs no one in here ever got the idea of rewarding not camping killers .-. (ive seen 1 post suggesting rewards for non campers and about 20+ posts that want them to get punished)
guys! punishing the killer is not a good idea!besides that, i have free movement. i can go wherever i want on the map, you cant forbid me to stay near a hooked survivor. lets be real here: survivors are like gens to the killer: when they are on the hook, the progress goes up. you wouldnt start a gen, get it to 33% and then leave and let the killer reset it to 0%, right? why should we killers do that then? at this point, the only difference between a survivor and a generator is, that the survivors are actual people, while the gens are just like npcs, they have no feelings.
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1. There is nothing wrong with tunneling a survivor by your definition. If the killer wants to waste time on one person that's enough of a punishment. Camping is also something that already has a punishment. Rarely have I ever (aside from ranks 18-20) seen someone camp for no reason. The plurality of times I have seen it the survivor instigated by being toxic.
2. Bloodlust was made to cut out infinites. It doesn't even trigger until you've already wasted enough of the killer's time. Bloodlust is fair and balanced.
3. Nerf Myers? Are you kidding? 60 seconds of instadown is the same as tier 3 of make your choice. So should we nerf that too? Myer'so doesn't need a nerf and if you want more variety trying to nerf killers isn't the way to go.
4. Every perk listed is fine except for DS. The only problem is it doesn't have true counterplay unlike all the other perks.
5. BBQ&C is fine as is. Yes hiding behind a gen is a counter, devs even acknowledged this by making surv aura same color as gen aura. Hide in the killers' terror radius, or simply walk one way count to for then turn around.
6. I don't really care if this change is implemented either way.
7. No, survivors have more than they should when it comes to totems. Totems are already in horrible spots and survivors can spawn directly next to them. Huntress lullaby can be detected before it even gets any use. Survivors need a nerf here and don't need notifications when a hex perk triggers. It's easy to look at the survivors health in the lower left. If someone instantly goes down before exit gates are powered assume DH, and if someone gets instadowned after gates assume NOED.
8. Why should the killer be punished for killing (in a normal game with no DC's) 3 survivors before 5 gens can be done? Survivors got beat, killer performed well and should be rewarded with a 4k. Plus 4ks give I think 2500 bonus blood points. The hatch needs reworked, just add a 2 minute timer then if it's a hatch stand off the killer is gonna win and the survivor is gonna have to take an L. Which is 100% fair because the killer performed better than the survivors.
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"Freddy OP plz nerf"Damarus said:Killer tiers: Aren't you tired to always find yourself facing Billys, Nurses or Myers? There has to be some variety in a game, and other killers need to be made viable too. But viable does not mean they must act as different skins of previously quoted killers, each applying the same pressure a Billy can. And it does not mean each killer should be godly either, or have abusive and unnecessary mechanics like innate aura reading (Freddy). Especially in a game like this, where balancement can be such a thin line, these things need to be very well thought, before they are applied.
Lol. Stopped reading there.0 -
@KingB said:
1. There is nothing wrong with tunneling a survivor by your definition. If the killer wants to waste time on one person that's enough of a punishment. Camping is also something that already has a punishment. Rarely have I ever (aside from ranks 18-20) seen someone camp for no reason. The plurality of times I have seen it the survivor instigated by being toxic.Of course, the error is always up to survivors. Wish I could talk to someone who doesn't main killer side, at least there would be some objectivity. But, in this community, where 90% of players main killer, it would be like asking water to a desert. A game is meant to be fun, for every single person. If a mechanic doesn't let people have fun, it should be taken out. I play at rank 1, both survivor and killer. As much as I can get frustrated for the long killer lobby times, I don't camp. You can deny that as much as you like, killers camp whenver they have the chance. By camping and tunneling, the killer is choosing the easy way, especially if he bases his whole game on that, running perks like Insidious. At least one of the survivors will try to go and help the hooked guy. What those like you say, "if the killer camps he is already punishing himself" is the biggest bs I've heard. You're not recognizing that because you want to play that way. There's a weapon that kills in one shot, do we nerf it, to make up for it? No, let's just make it available at level 1, so everybody gets access to it. If that sounds like clever reasoning to you, I guess you can stop going through this thread.
- Bloodlust was made to cut out infinites. It doesn't even trigger until you've already wasted enough of the killer's time. Bloodlust is fair and balanced.
It should only trigger when near infinites, if that was it's purpose. Or infinites can be closed, as far as I am concerned And 15 seconds isn't, by any means, enough of a killer's time. 15 seconds are not even a quarter of a gen done by yourself.
- Nerf Myers? Are you kidding? 60 seconds of instadown is the same as tier 3 of make your choice. So should we nerf that too? Myer'so doesn't need a nerf and if you want more variety trying to nerf killers isn't the way to go.
Except it is nowhere near close. While Make your choice only gives you an instadown, just like Haunted Grounds, Myers gets increased lunge range, increased movement speed, increased terror radius (which gets useful if you are running perks like Unnerving Presence). Might as well play a shooter in which you get an infinite ammo rifle that kills on one shot, without ever needing to reload.
- Every perk listed is fine except for DS. The only problem is it doesn't have true counterplay unlike all the other perks.
Wrong. Each perk listed is not fine. People who only want to see DS nerfed, with no other perks, are the same people who claim it has "no hard counter", but then forget that also NOED has no hard counter. You are one of those who run NOED every game, I assume. A hard counter is something that directly counters that thing, preventing it from happening in an easy way. Having to look for 5 totems and destroy them is just A counter, not a hard one. As dropping DS players is A counter, not a hard one.
- BBQ&C is fine as is. Yes hiding behind a gen is a counter, devs even acknowledged this by making surv aura same color as gen aura. Hide in the killers' terror radius, or simply walk one way count to for then turn around.
If hiding behind a gen was a counter, survivor auras would be completely invisible behind gens, because they would be of the exact same colour. If you had looked carefully, you would have noticed how easy it is to still spot said survivors, since auras are not coloured in the same exact gradiation of red.
- I don't really care if this change is implemented either way.
Which makes me understand, if all of the other things you wrote already didn't, you're a killer main. And you don't care, because you rarely play survivor, if you ever do. As a killer main, you like that, since you can get easy hooks without making any effort or needing any skill.
- No, survivors have more than they should when it comes to totems. Totems are already in horrible spots and survivors can spawn directly next to them. Huntress lullaby can be detected before it even gets any use. Survivors need a nerf here and don't need notifications when a hex perk triggers. It's easy to look at the survivors health in the lower left. If someone instantly goes down before exit gates are powered assume DH, and if someone gets instadowned after gates assume NOED.
So, you killer mains are always whining about survivors needing more things to do, yet you never want them to? I must have lost the meaning of this. I will be more encouraged to go seek totems, especially now that NOED got so ready for unskilled players of every rank. And it is one of those things which SWF groups can communicate to each other, while solo players can't. Following the logic behind BHVR's will to buff solo players like they did with Obsession, it would be only smart to have such an addition.
- Why should the killer be punished for killing (in a normal game with no DC's) 3 survivors before 5 gens can be done? Survivors got beat, killer performed well and should be rewarded with a 4k. Plus 4ks give I think 2500 bonus blood points. The hatch needs reworked, just add a 2 minute timer then if it's a hatch stand off the killer is gonna win and the survivor is gonna have to take an L. Which is 100% fair because the killer performed better than the survivors.
That's the thing, he's not being punished. Not all games should end up in a 4k and not all games should end up in an escape. There's a reason why people give the hatch to the last person, even if they downed them. But, we all know how toxic this community is, so I'm not surpirised you can't get to that. Your whole reasoning, in every single aspect of your post, is " Killer is love, people playing killers are better than survivors blah blah blah". I just had a game in which I completed three gens on my own, with Ruin still on the go. That means I performed better than the other survivors, since they also did their first gen by the time I completed my second one. So I have to get it stuck up my a*s because you demand a 4k, just because you are playing killer? People keep saying survivors are the power role. While I don't belive that is true, I am sure it isn't so on PS4. Lack of 360s, bad frame rate, massive frame drops and less smooth gameplay make it easier to be a killer. Oh, and another thing. If you try to compare useful survivor perks to useful killer perks, the ratio will be completely in the killer's favor. Survivors really have few good perks which, again, makes it easier to play killer. But I'm sure you know that
If it gets done well, I am convinced Last Year: The Nightmare will destroy DbD. Lots and lots of survivors, tired of endless chases and camping, will probably leave to go play Last Year. By the time that happens, people like you will either have to understand what's wrong with their way of seeing things or end up needing more than a couple hours to fill their killer lobbies. As much as I like DbD (while disliking its community), that is something that is probably going to happen.
@ChesterTheMolester said:
"Freddy OP plz nerf"Lol. Stopped reading there.
Except I never said Freddy was OP, child
Innate aura reading is. Or should I assume you would like for survivors to always know where either you or your precious totems are, at any given moment? No need for you to answer, I already know.3 -
So neuter killers to the point they may as well not he there and make the game absurdly survivor sided.
I play survivor more than killer, bit both pretty evenly and this is an insane list.2 -
Nice contradiction there.Damarus said:@ChesterTheMolester said:
"Freddy OP plz nerf"Lol. Stopped reading there.
Except I never said Freddy was OP, child
Innate aura reading is. Or should I assume you would like for survivors to always know where either you or your precious totems are, at any given moment? No need for you to answer, I already know.0 -
@Mister_xD said:
WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO PUNISH A CAMPING KILLER?!?ffs no one in here ever got the idea of rewarding not camping killers .-. (ive seen 1 post suggesting rewards for non campers and about 20+ posts that want them to get punished)
guys! punishing the killer is not a good idea!besides that, i have free movement. i can go wherever i want on the map, you cant forbid me to stay near a hooked survivor. lets be real here: survivors are like gens to the killer: when they are on the hook, the progress goes up. you wouldnt start a gen, get it to 33% and then leave and let the killer reset it to 0%, right? why should we killers do that then? at this point, the only difference between a survivor and a generator is, that the survivors are actual people, while the gens are just like npcs, they have no feelings.
No one gets the idea of rewarding a no-camping killer for many reasons:
- The chances you find one are close to non-existant;
- Killers already get lots and lots of points, especially with BBQ;
- You can't really reward someone for doing what he is supposed to do, which is the most important thing. You can't go to your job employer and ask him for money just because you presented yourself at work.
If there are that many posts about punishing camping, and devs are also VERY SOFTLY trying to do so, it should make a question mark pop in your head.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
So neuter killers to the point they may as well not he there and make the game absurdly survivor sided.I play survivor more than killer, bit both pretty evenly and this is an insane list.
By camping, you are deliberately forcing people into NOT playing and not reparing gens, they might as wel have left the game during loading screen. Why shouldn't a killer be forced into not camping and letting even others have fun? It isn't about neutering killers, it is about having and needing some skill. Too many people are just only able to get you on the hook because of instadowns (Billy, Myers, LF). One of these killers who downs you without going into insta-down mode (and not even trying to hit you normally first) is a much rarer sight than a rainbow unicorn. And the thing is, I'm not even asking for killers to get nerfed here, I just want everyone to have fun, not just cheap killer players. It should be a matter of challenge, not of how much you can camp. Killers can still run from side to side in a second, can put pressure on gens to the point that the last three gens will be one by the other, effectively stalling the game for survivors. But survivors are not even to be allowed to have fun? Not all survivors are cheap DS trash, you know?
@ChesterTheMolester said:
Nice contradiction there.So, you're still being completely unconstructive and unneeded. Weren't you locked behind bars, anyway? Should give you a couple hints on how useful your presence is
I won't bother into answering you anymore.
I was hoping you could also give some valid points, if only you had them. Oh, perhaps you need me to explain what a point is?0 -
Extremely survivor sided. Have you ever played killer past rank 15?
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What is this ridiculousness of a thread?
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There are just way, way too many things wrong with all these ideas to even try and tackle them all. Get to rank 1 on both sides and many of these opinions you have will change completely.
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Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Damarus said:@Mister_xD said:
WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO PUNISH A CAMPING KILLER?!?ffs no one in here ever got the idea of rewarding not camping killers .-. (ive seen 1 post suggesting rewards for non campers and about 20+ posts that want them to get punished)
guys! punishing the killer is not a good idea!besides that, i have free movement. i can go wherever i want on the map, you cant forbid me to stay near a hooked survivor. lets be real here: survivors are like gens to the killer: when they are on the hook, the progress goes up. you wouldnt start a gen, get it to 33% and then leave and let the killer reset it to 0%, right? why should we killers do that then? at this point, the only difference between a survivor and a generator is, that the survivors are actual people, while the gens are just like npcs, they have no feelings.
No one gets the idea of rewarding a no-camping killer for many reasons:
- The chances you find one are close to non-existant;
- Killers already get lots and lots of points, especially with BBQ;
- You can't really reward someone for doing what he is supposed to do, which is the most important thing. You can't go to your job employer and ask him for money just because you presented yourself at work.
If there are that many posts about punishing camping, and devs are also VERY SOFTLY trying to do so, it should make a question mark pop in your head.
Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.0 -
If i was you i would stop answering to anyone.Damarus said:@ChesterTheMolester said:
Nice contradiction there.So, you're still being completely unconstructive and unneeded. Weren't you locked behind bars, anyway? Should give you a couple hints on how useful your presence is
I won't bother into answering you anymore.
I was hoping you could also give some valid points, if only you had them. Oh, perhaps you need me to explain what a point is?
Two embarrassing posts in one thread are more than enough.
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@Global said:
Extremely survivor sided. Have you ever played killer past rank 15?Oh, I keep getting to rank 1 on both sides, so yes. Have you ever tried not to be a jerk?
@Blueberry said:
There are just way, way too many things wrong with all these ideas to even try and tackle them all. Get to rank 1 on both sides and many of these opinions you have will change completely.
I can't really understand you people. Perhaps I can. I am pushing forward more limitations for survivors than for killers, yet all you care about is your precious camping "strategy". Not to mention there have been so many times in which I have seen killer hit through walls and windows. But of course no killer main is bothered by that, just makes the game even cheesier.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here. If any mod happens to get by, you can close this thread. There is no reason to keep talking to walls.
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And it's a no from me. Camping will not stop even with bhvrs 2/3 percent chase emblem loss. Tunneling is defined by devs as going for the same survivor through different matches constantly. If I meet a seriously toxic survivor which is more common than not they're gonna get camped big time. I try to alleviate my camping by putting devour hope on my Freddy as I have to go a certain distance from the hooked survivor to get a token but it gets took down within the first 5 minutes as does any hex totem.
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Damarus said:
By camping, you are deliberately forcing people into NOT playing and not reparing gens, they might as wel have left the game during loading screen. Why shouldn't a killer be forced into not camping and letting even others have fun? It isn't about neutering killers, it is about having and needing some skill. Too many people are just only able to get you on the hook because of instadowns (Billy, Myers, LF). One of these killers who downs you without going into insta-down mode (and not even trying to hit you normally first) is a much rarer sight than a rainbow unicorn. And the thing is, I'm not even asking for killers to get nerfed here, I just want everyone to have fun, not just cheap killer players. It should be a matter of challenge, not of how much you can camp. Killers can still run from side to side in a second, can put pressure on gens to the point that the last three gens will be one by the other, effectively stalling the game for survivors. But survivors are not even to be allowed to have fun? Not all survivors are cheap DS trash, you know?
What you are really saying here is that killers shouldn't be able to get a kill because survivors need to repair gens. I am sorry but if survivors cared that much about there precious little gens then they wouldn't go for a save anyway.
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@Damarus said:
@Global said:
Extremely survivor sided. Have you ever played killer past rank 15?Oh, I keep getting to rank 1 on both sides, so yes. Have you ever tried not to be a jerk?
@Blueberry said:
There are just way, way too many things wrong with all these ideas to even try and tackle them all. Get to rank 1 on both sides and many of these opinions you have will change completely.
I can't really understand you people. Perhaps I can. I am pushing forward more limitations for survivors than for killers, yet all you care about is your precious camping "strategy". Not to mention there have been so many times in which I have seen killer hit through walls and windows. But of course no killer main is bothered by that, just makes the game even cheesier.
Firstly, I play both sides at rank 1, so I know exactly how it is as survivor as well. The reason a lot of people reference the way I have is because it shows something. While the ranking system is heavily flawed, if you don't get near those ranks on both sides then you firstly havn't experienced both sides enough to have a fair assessment. Secondly, if you are playing at those lower ranks and can't get to rank 1 then it shows you are playing poorly and I don't say that in a mean way at all, just a matter of fact. If you are using the tools given to you poorly, then you will then think things are weaker or stronger than they actually are, you're just using them incorrectly. That's why many of these opinions of yours are flawed and why many people say what I said.
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Myers and Freddy aren't OP.
Tunneling and camping are legit strats. Sure, they're annoying af, but so is genrushing. Try hiding or getting better at chases so you can't be camped or tunneled.
BBQ is fine.
You aren't entitled to a hatch escape. If the killer is desperate to get a 4k and won't hit you, try mindgaming him. Lead him away then sneak your way back. If the killer won't fall for it, go do a gen. I guarantee you the killer will leave the hatch for that.
Bloodlust I only semi-agree on. Its a stupid mechanic, but it's necessary at the moment until maps get balanced properly. Bloodlust shouldn't be lost over missing a hit though, thats just you asking for a handout.0 -
Even a speak and spell could tell you this game has issues. It’s been long overdue.0
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Arabs didn't like being set on fire along with their ships yet the greek fire turned out to be an actually successful strategy.Damarus said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Strategies are strategies regardless if you like them or not.
Bye felicia0 -
Blueberry said:
Firstly, I play both sides at rank 1, so I know exactly how it is as survivor as well. The reason a lot of people reference the way I have is because it shows something. While the ranking system is heavily flawed, if you don't get near those ranks on both sides then you firstly havn't experienced both sides enough to have a fair assessment. Secondly, if you are playing at those lower ranks and can't get to rank 1 then it shows you are playing poorly and I don't say that in a mean way at all, just a matter of fact. If you are using the tools given to you poorly, then you will then think things are weaker or stronger than they actually are, you're just using them incorrectly. That's why many of these opinions of yours are flawed and why many people say what I said.
Last post, just for you. You must have lost the passage where I wrote that, even though I was indulged into doing so multiple times, but I already am rank 1 on both sides, and I am speaking with common sense. It doesn't take a red rank to be able to say that camping is bad, anyway. EWIII duration and survivor's exhaustion perks cooldown aside, I am not talking about something being strong or powerful. While I appreciate you trying to be constructive at least, you're starting on false pretenses.
0 -
Bye.. Felicia? Are you bloody twelve? *Reads name* ohhh, hey, you. Carry on. Forgot you’re like lowbei lol. (I miss that dude.)ChesterTheMolester said:
Arabs didn't like being set on fire along with their ships yet the greek fire turned out to be an actually successful strategy.Damarus said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Strategies are strategies regardless if you like them or not.
Bye felicia
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Nah im just done with people trying to dismiss strategies by claiming they are not valid just cause they don't like them.DarkWo1f997 said:
Bye.. Felicia? Are you bloody twelve? *Reads name* ohhh, hey, you. Carry on. Forgot you’re like lowbei lol. (I miss that dude.)ChesterTheMolester said:
Arabs didn't like being set on fire along with their ships yet the greek fire turned out to be an actually successful strategy.Damarus said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Strategies are strategies regardless if you like them or not.
Bye felicia
Camping and tunneling is boring and unrewarding cause low BP and bad Emblems but can work if you play to win.
Looping and genrushing is boring and unrewarding cause low BP and bad Emblems but can work if you play to win.1 -
I’m not ragging on you. Just have an incredibly short attention span rn and am extremely bored. Doesn’t help that mobile puts me at the BOTTOM of the discussion instead of the beginning when clicking posts. Oh well.ChesterTheMolester said:
Nah im just done with people trying to dismiss strategies by claiming they are not valid just cause they don't like them.DarkWo1f997 said:
Bye.. Felicia? Are you bloody twelve? *Reads name* ohhh, hey, you. Carry on. Forgot you’re like lowbei lol. (I miss that dude.)ChesterTheMolester said:
Arabs didn't like being set on fire along with their ships yet the greek fire turned out to be an actually successful strategy.Damarus said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Strategies are strategies regardless if you like them or not.
Bye felicia0 -
@Damarus said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Killer, and survivor? I doubt it.
You don't seem to understand the motives behind camping, or you're willfully not even wanting to.You don't realize how powerful survivors are, either.
See, I'm trying to be the voice of the killer, and survivor.
One of the main reasons I play survivor more than killer is because of all the crap survivors put killers through.Survivors have it absurdly easy. I'm nowhere near great, and I'm unwillingly being dragged up the ranks just by playing.
Hell, I was letting killers hook me during the event.
Not looking forward to the point where I reach the point where killers are too good, or something, and I keep hitting the ceiling in rank.More people are camping with BBQ? Maybe because BBQ doesn't show auras of people within a certain radius of the hook. If they look around, and aren't seeing everyone unhooked, then it's pretty obvious that someone is near by to unhook as soon as the opportunity presents itself... and maybe even before then.
Or they see the auras of people coming for the rescue.
Give me one good reason a killer should just walk away?
The fun of the survivors? What about the fun for the killer?Why shouldn't killers hook people opportunistically? It's the main way they get points. If they don't get points, what he hell is the point of them being there?
Try some altruistic builds like the perk that boosts your speed when you unhook someone, and borrowed time. You don't seem to mind demanding killers run perks, so there shouldn't be any harm in demanding survivors run perks to make scenarios work?
Look, I get getting unlucky and being the first person spotted, or some fool trying to be a decoy, and getting mauled. Regardless, the survivor still bears some responsibility to not get caught. I see it a lot of times they blatantly disregard this, and even actively trying to get the killer's attention. They get annoying to the point that keeping them in the game is detrimental.
I get camped hard. I ran into someone that took advantage of a bugged hook. It sucked because it was the original definition of face camping in that the body of the killer blocked the unhooking entirely.You don't seem to give a damn about killers lucking out and finding a group that genrushes them into oblivion. Once it's obvious the gens are going to be done fast enough to prevent another chase and hook, the killer would have to be really nice, or insane to leave the hooked survivor. You know, one of the many reasons a killer would camp.
Skilled killers shouldn't need to camp? Skilled survivors shouldn't get hooked to begin with, or get rescued by skilled survivors. Skilled survivors should escape all the time! If survivors were skilled, you wouldn't have made this thread! Survivors need to get skilled so they don't get caught instantly! They need to get better at breaking line of sight, and hiding!
Skill is too abstract to rest anything on, you see. People have different skill sets, and amounts of skill.
I don't really give a damn if people make extra BP. Actually I do. I want people to earn more in regards to playing the game in a more fun way, or dealing with absolute bullshit.
Survivors get more points for failing to be a decoy, or being unlucky, and found first? Sure.
Do you give a damn if killers get more BP for not securing kills?You're welcome to voice your dislike towards campers, but when you start pushing that dislike on others, especially in ways that are of severe detriment to others, well, you kinda hit a point where you're going to meet resistance.
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No problem.DarkWo1f997 said:
I’m not ragging on you. Just have an incredibly short attention span rn and am extremely bored. Doesn’t help that mobile puts me at the BOTTOM of the discussion instead of the beginning when clicking posts. Oh well.ChesterTheMolester said:
Nah im just done with people trying to dismiss strategies by claiming they are not valid just cause they don't like them.DarkWo1f997 said:
Bye.. Felicia? Are you bloody twelve? *Reads name* ohhh, hey, you. Carry on. Forgot you’re like lowbei lol. (I miss that dude.)ChesterTheMolester said:
Arabs didn't like being set on fire along with their ships yet the greek fire turned out to be an actually successful strategy.Damarus said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Bbq doesn't do a thing for me. Not only do I not have it on every killer, I don't have it at all. What's your scheme got to do with me?Bbq also requires tokens earned by hooking people so camping doesn't work well on it short of getting tokens off altruistic people
You cannot punish killers into submission. They will quit when you squeeze too hard, and rebel until then.
Killers need a real reason, some profit to leaving the hook.
It needs to overcome the need to secure a kill. Especially when the gens are done and gates are open.
It needs to overcome the desire to punish a toxic crap.And yet more and more people pick BBQ and still choose to camp. Others even hook survivors one next to each other (of course, not in the basement), just so they can camp two people at once. You are saying killers cannot be punished into submission and will "rebel". The same is to be applied to survivors, my man. Why would a player keep getting camped and be alright with that? Why are survivors not allowed to express their dislike towards campers? Would you pay a roller coaster ride just to be on it, without the race ever being started? So why should you pay to be camped? And not only is the camped survivor not having fun, but he is even punished by depipping, if he gets caught and camped before being able to do much. If you want to keep things this broken way, while still retaining your "ability" to camp player who wouldn't prefer to play something else, you must at least demand them not to depip for getting camped. If they stay on hook while camped, just so they can let others do gens, they should gain points, and not just those trifling amounts you get for struggling. I am trying to voice both my survivor and killer experience here. I dislike camping and disrespect it, in any game. People who are skilled or just decent don't need it, kids and worthless players do. But, if you are fine with almost all players either switching to the easy killer side or simply playing other games, be my guest. Goodbye, I'm done here.
Strategies are strategies regardless if you like them or not.
Bye felicia
Also we all should honor @Lowbei by dismissing entitled saltvivors left and right.
Proof OP is entitled? Look at the hatch suggestion.0 -
@Damarus said:
Blueberry said:Firstly, I play both sides at rank 1, so I know exactly how it is as survivor as well. The reason a lot of people reference the way I have is because it shows something. While the ranking system is heavily flawed, if you don't get near those ranks on both sides then you firstly havn't experienced both sides enough to have a fair assessment. Secondly, if you are playing at those lower ranks and can't get to rank 1 then it shows you are playing poorly and I don't say that in a mean way at all, just a matter of fact. If you are using the tools given to you poorly, then you will then think things are weaker or stronger than they actually are, you're just using them incorrectly. That's why many of these opinions of yours are flawed and why many people say what I said.
Last post, just for you. You must have lost the passage where I wrote that, even though I was indulged into doing so multiple times, but I already am rank 1 on both sides, and I am speaking with common sense. It doesn't take a red rank to be able to say that camping is bad, anyway. EWIII duration and survivor's exhaustion perks cooldown aside, I am not talking about something being strong or powerful. While I appreciate you trying to be constructive at least, you're starting on false pretenses.
I frankly don't believe anyone at rank 1 on both sides would believe these things so I doubt that validity. Also, I'm not making false pretenses because you did indeed state MULTIPLE things you would like nerfed/lowered. If you are asking for things to be nerfed or weakened that is indeed implying that it is too strong or powerful in its current state.
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Nvm talking to the guy.Blueberry said:@Damarus said:
Blueberry said:Firstly, I play both sides at rank 1, so I know exactly how it is as survivor as well. The reason a lot of people reference the way I have is because it shows something. While the ranking system is heavily flawed, if you don't get near those ranks on both sides then you firstly havn't experienced both sides enough to have a fair assessment. Secondly, if you are playing at those lower ranks and can't get to rank 1 then it shows you are playing poorly and I don't say that in a mean way at all, just a matter of fact. If you are using the tools given to you poorly, then you will then think things are weaker or stronger than they actually are, you're just using them incorrectly. That's why many of these opinions of yours are flawed and why many people say what I said.
Last post, just for you. You must have lost the passage where I wrote that, even though I was indulged into doing so multiple times, but I already am rank 1 on both sides, and I am speaking with common sense. It doesn't take a red rank to be able to say that camping is bad, anyway. EWIII duration and survivor's exhaustion perks cooldown aside, I am not talking about something being strong or powerful. While I appreciate you trying to be constructive at least, you're starting on false pretenses.
I frankly don't believe anyone at rank 1 on both sides would believe these things so I doubt that validity. Also, I'm not making false pretenses because you did indeed state MULTIPLE things you would like nerfed/lowered. If you are asking for things to be nerfed or weakened that is indeed implying that it is too strong or powerful in its current state.
He basicly told me Freddy isn't OP, just his power is.
Better nerf Freddy...'s power.1 -
@Damarus said:
@Global said:
Extremely survivor sided. Have you ever played killer past rank 15?Oh, I keep getting to rank 1 on both sides, so yes. Have you ever tried not to be a jerk?
@Blueberry said:
There are just way, way too many things wrong with all these ideas to even try and tackle them all. Get to rank 1 on both sides and many of these opinions you have will change completely.
I can't really understand you people. Perhaps I can. I am pushing forward more limitations for survivors than for killers, yet all you care about is your precious camping "strategy". Not to mention there have been so many times in which I have seen killer hit through walls and windows. But of course no killer main is bothered by that, just makes the game even cheesier.
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@Tsulan
Someone with a Bill avatar unironically wants Freddy nerfed. Where are you?0 -
I'm on mobile and I'm somewhat new to the forums. Forgive any massive mistakes as I'm having trouble figuring out what to do and I'm prone to messing up. I'm clumsy and technologically illiterate. I apologize for any mistakes and please correct me if you see any.Damarus said:@KingB said:
1. There is nothing wrong with tunneling a survivor by your definition. If the killer wants to waste time on one person that's enough of a punishment. Camping is also something that already has a punishment. Rarely have I ever (aside from ranks 18-20) seen someone camp for no reason. The plurality of times I have seen it the survivor instigated by being toxic.Of course, the error is always up to survivors. Wish I could talk to someone who doesn't main killer side,
Right off the bat with the baseless false assumptions. I'm a "which lobby fills quicker" main but yes I am better at killer.
at least there would be some objectivity. But, in this community, where 90% of players main killer, it would be like asking water to a desert. A game is meant to be fun, for every single person. If a mechanic doesn't let people have fun, it should be taken out.
So we should remove DS, Looping, 360's, and flashlights?
I play at rank 1, both survivor and killer. As much as I can get frustrated for the long killer lobby times, I don't camp. You can deny that as much as you like, killers camp whenver they have the chance.
What rank are you playing? Rarely ever do I find a hardcore camper. If there are gens in the area and/or survivors running around of course the logical thing to do is guard the hook.
By camping and tunneling, the killer is choosing the easy way, especially if he bases his whole game on that, running perks like Insidious. At least one of the survivors will try to go and help the hooked guy. What those like you say, "if the killer camps he is already punishing himself" is the biggest bs I've heard.
No it's really not, if a killer camps they are likely only to get 1-2 kills if the survivors don't Gen rush and he camps from the very first hook.
You're not recognizing that because you want to play that way.
Did I ever claim I camp? There you again, more false assumptions.
There's a weapon that kills in one shot, do we nerf it, to make up for it? No, let's just make it available at level 1, so everybody gets access to it.
It doesn't kill, it instantly downs someone. It's like it's a problem to cleanse 5 totems. Run small game or detectives hunch if you're having trouble finding them.
If that sounds like clever reasoning to you, I guess you can stop going through this thread.
- Bloodlust was made to cut out infinites. It doesn't even trigger until you've already wasted enough of the killer's time. Bloodlust is fair and balanced.
It should only trigger when near infinites, if that was it's purpose. Or infinites can be closed, as far as I am concerned And 15 seconds isn't, by any means, enough of a killer's time. 15 seconds are not even a quarter of a gen done by yourself.
How is the game able to register where the infinites are? Most people refer to infinites as really long loops nowadays. There is still a bunch and the devs have closed at least 1 in recent memory. Tier 1 Bloodlust is essentially worthless. Lets just say someone hits Bloodlust tier 2 and hits you instantly. That's 30 seconds for the first hit and 30 seconds for the next hit. 60 seconds total. Let's do some math. A generator takes 80 seconds to do alone. 5 generators need completed, so 80×5=400. Each exit gate takes 20 seconds so 400+40=440. 440 seconds of objective time (survivors playing optimally). If a killer doesn't camp or tunnel, and the survivors unhook, that would be 12 total chases for a 4k. So 12×60=720. Now for some other factors added in, 8 heals would have to be completed and assuming one survivor is healing another it will take 16 seconds (without sloppy butcher) so 16x8=128. 128 seconds of healng plus 400 seconds of objective time means 400+128=528. Now let's assume it takes 8 seconds (50% of wiggle bar) for the killer to hook each person. That's 8×12=96 seconds. Add that to objective time 720+96=816. There's some factors I didn't account for, but this is just basic knowledge. That's 816 seconds for killer, versus 528 seconds of survivor objective time. So that's 816-528=288. That's roughly a 5 minute objective time difference. Normally chases don't reach bloodlust 2 because then that means you are horribly ineffeciant. Bloodlust isn't a problem.
Nerf Myers? Are you kidding? 60 seconds of instadown is the same as tier 3 of make your choice. So should we nerf that too? Myer'so doesn't need a nerf and if you want more variety trying to nerf killers isn't the way to go.
Except it is nowhere near close. While Make your choice only gives you an instadown, just like Haunted Grounds, Myers gets increased lunge range, increased movement speed, increased terror radius (which gets useful if you are running perks like Unnerving Presence). Might as well play a shooter in which you get an infinite ammo rifle that kills on one shot, without ever needing to reload.
He's an M1 killer for 60 seconds. If a chase hits bloodlust 2 (using same math from earlier because it's easier lol) that's 30 seconds. Let's say it takes him 20 seconds to level him up from tier 2 to tier 3 (At base with no add ons) that's a 50 second chase. He's saving roughly 10 seconds a chase using an instadown. Where are you getting increased terror radius from? His tier 3 power has a standard 32 meted terror radius.
- Every perk listed is fine except for DS. The only problem is it doesn't have true counterplay unlike all the other perks.
Wrong. Each perk listed is not fine. People who only want to see DS nerfed, with no other perks, are the same people who claim it has "no hard counter", but then forget that also NOED has no hard counter. You are one of those who run NOED every game, I assume. A hard counter is something that directly counters that thing, preventing it from happening in an easy way. Having to look for 5 totems and destroy them is just A counter, not a hard one. As dropping DS players is A counter, not a hard one.
I agree some perks need nerfed. No, I only use NOED as a meme build with nurse where I teleport through the gates at the end with insidious. Looking for 5 totems literally completely prevents NOED from happening. And the cleansing of said totems aren't situational, you can cleanse the 5 at your own will. Dropping a survivor only works if 1 you are close to a hook and 2 if no one bodyblocks. Even then DS can still occur later.
- BBQ&C is fine as is. Yes hiding behind a gen is a counter, devs even acknowledged this by making surv aura same color as gen aura. Hide in the killers' terror radius, or simply walk one way count to for then turn around.
If hiding behind a gen was a counter, survivor auras would be completely invisible behind gens, because they would be of the exact same colour. If you had looked carefully, you would have noticed how easy it is to still spot said survivors, since auras are not coloured in the same exact gradiation of red.
They essentially are. They are colored the exact same gradient of red to give BBQ another counter. I'm not saying it's weak and needs buffed, I'm simply saying there are ways to play around it. Also you can hide in the killers terror radius, or walk one way count to 4 then turn around.
- I don't really care if this change is implemented either way.
Which makes me understand, if all of the other things you wrote already didn't, you're a killer main.
Again, false assumption. I'm better at killer yes, but I spend about the same amount of time on survivor as I do killer.
And you don't care, because you rarely play survivor, if you ever do. As a killer main, you like that, since you can get easy hooks without making any effort or needing any skill.
If you think killer is easy that's hilarious. Everyone knows killer is stressful (hence the whole civ 5 meme).
- No, survivors have more than they should when it comes to totems. Totems are already in horrible spots and survivors can spawn directly next to them. Huntress lullaby can be detected before it even gets any use. Survivors need a nerf here and don't need notifications when a hex perk triggers. It's easy to look at the survivors health in the lower left. If someone instantly goes down before exit gates are powered assume DH, and if someone gets instadowned after gates assume NOED.
So, you killer mains are always whining about survivors needing more things to do, yet you never want them to?
Again assuming I'm a killer main. I do wish survivors had more things to do, but not at the expense of me losing a whole perk slot.
I must have lost the meaning of this. I will be more encouraged to go seek totems, especially now that NOED got so ready for unskilled players of every rank.
NOED only activates against bad survivors who can't cleansee 5 totems. That's not saying killers who use it are skilled either.
And it is one of those things which SWF groups can communicate to each other, while solo players can't.
I whole-heartedly agree killers are stronger than solo queue survivors. I think we should make solo survivors as strong as SWF and balance it from there. One way would be making bond/empathy etc. be a base part of the game and have the perks associated extend the range. I'm not entirely sure this would work but it's an idea, I'm willing to admit it could have flaws just like everything I've said so far. I'm not against having a reasonable discussion on the base mechanics.
Following the logic behind BHVR's will to buff solo players like they did with Obsession, it would be only smart to have such an addition.
- Why should the killer be punished for killing (in a normal game with no DC's) 3 survivors before 5 gens can be done? Survivors got beat, killer performed well and should be rewarded with a 4k. Plus 4ks give I think 2500 bonus blood points. The hatch needs reworked, just add a 2 minute timer then if it's a hatch stand off the killer is gonna win and the survivor is gonna have to take an L. Which is 100% fair because the killer performed better than the survivors.
That's the thing, he's not being punished. Not all games should end up in a 4k and not all games should end up in an escape.
No they shouldn't I agree. But if a killer does amazing they deserve a chance at a 4k. However, if a survivor does amazing that doesn't mean they should escape. It's not meant for the survivors to be individually as strong as the killer. They need to work as a team.
There's a reason why people give the hatch to the last person, even if they downed them. But, we all know how toxic this community is, so I'm not surpirised you can't get to that.
Insulting me because I disagree with you? Sad and pathetic.
Your whole reasoning, in every single aspect of your post, is " Killer is love, people playing killers are better than survivors blah blah blah". I just had a game in which I completed three gens on my own, with Ruin still on the go.
Good job, that takes skill and probably isn't something I could accomplish.
That means I performed better than the other survivors, since they also did their first gen by the time I completed my second one. So I have to get it stuck up my a*s because you demand a 4k, just because you are playing killer?
I'm not demanding a 4k. I'm saying the survivors are built like a team and each individual survivor shouldn't be as strong as the killer.
People keep saying survivors are the power role. While I don't belive that is true, I am sure it isn't so on PS4. Lack of 360s, bad frame rate, massive frame drops and less smooth gameplay make it easier to be a killer.
Do you play killer? If so what rank? That doesn't just hurt the survivor, killers are victims of bad optimization as well. When I play killer I've had multiple times where the grab animation starts from pulling someone off a gen but then I end up smacking the gen and having to do a full chase.
Oh, and another thing. If you try to compare useful survivor perks to useful killer perks, the ratio will be completely in the killer's favor.
Because it's 4 killer perks vs. 16 survivor perks. The killers' perks should be stronger.
Survivors really have few good perks which, again, makes it easier to play killer. But I'm sure you know that
Survivors' have some horrible perks yes I agree. Some should be reworked.
If it gets done well, I am convinced Last Year: The Nightmare will destroy DbD. Lots and lots of survivors, tired of endless chases and camping, will probably leave to go play Last Year.
Then good for last year. I want the better product to always succeed.
By the time that happens, people like you will either have to understand what's wrong with their way of seeing things or end up needing more than a couple hours to fill their killer lobbies.
If it takes longer than about 30 seconds I restart the lobby. If this doesn't work after about 3 tries I switch to the other side.
As much as I like DbD (while disliking its community), that is something that is probably going to happen.
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The only thing massive here is that quote box.KingB said:
I'm on mobile and I'm somewhat new to the forums. Forgive any massive mistakes as I'm having trouble figuring out what to do and I'm prone to messing up. I'm clumsy and technologically illiterate. I apologize for any mistakes and please correct me if you see any.Damarus said:@KingB said:
1. There is nothing wrong with tunneling a survivor by your definition. If the killer wants to waste time on one person that's enough of a punishment. Camping is also something that already has a punishment. Rarely have I ever (aside from ranks 18-20) seen someone camp for no reason. The plurality of times I have seen it the survivor instigated by being toxic.Of course, the error is always up to survivors. Wish I could talk to someone who doesn't main killer side,
Right off the bat with the baseless false assumptions. I'm a "which lobby fills quicker" main but yes I am better at killer.
at least there would be some objectivity. But, in this community, where 90% of players main killer, it would be like asking water to a desert. A game is meant to be fun, for every single person. If a mechanic doesn't let people have fun, it should be taken out.
So we should remove DS, Looping, 360's, and flashlights?
I play at rank 1, both survivor and killer. As much as I can get frustrated for the long killer lobby times, I don't camp. You can deny that as much as you like, killers camp whenver they have the chance.
What rank are you playing? Rarely ever do I find a hardcore camper. If there are gens in the area and/or survivors running around of course the logical thing to do is guard the hook.
By camping and tunneling, the killer is choosing the easy way, especially if he bases his whole game on that, running perks like Insidious. At least one of the survivors will try to go and help the hooked guy. What those like you say, "if the killer camps he is already punishing himself" is the biggest bs I've heard.
No it's really not, if a killer camps they are likely only to get 1-2 kills if the survivors don't Gen rush and he camps from the very first hook.
You're not recognizing that because you want to play that way.
Did I ever claim I camp? There you again, more false assumptions.
There's a weapon that kills in one shot, do we nerf it, to make up for it? No, let's just make it available at level 1, so everybody gets access to it.
It doesn't kill, it instantly downs someone. It's like it's a problem to cleanse 5 totems. Run small game or detectives hunch if you're having trouble finding them.
If that sounds like clever reasoning to you, I guess you can stop going through this thread.
- Bloodlust was made to cut out infinites. It doesn't even trigger until you've already wasted enough of the killer's time. Bloodlust is fair and balanced.
It should only trigger when near infinites, if that was it's purpose. Or infinites can be closed, as far as I am concerned And 15 seconds isn't, by any means, enough of a killer's time. 15 seconds are not even a quarter of a gen done by yourself.
How is the game able to register where the infinites are? Most people refer to infinites as really long loops nowadays. There is still a bunch and the devs have closed at least 1 in recent memory. Tier 1 Bloodlust is essentially worthless. Lets just say someone hits Bloodlust tier 2 and hits you instantly. That's 30 seconds for the first hit and 30 seconds for the next hit. 60 seconds total. Let's do some math. A generator takes 80 seconds to do alone. 5 generators need completed, so 80×5=400. Each exit gate takes 20 seconds so 400+40=440. 440 seconds of objective time (survivors playing optimally). If a killer doesn't camp or tunnel, and the survivors unhook, that would be 12 total chases for a 4k. So 12×60=720. Now for some other factors added in, 8 heals would have to be completed and assuming one survivor is healing another it will take 16 seconds (without sloppy butcher) so 16x8=128. 128 seconds of healng plus 400 seconds of objective time means 400+128=528. Now let's assume it takes 8 seconds (50% of wiggle bar) for the killer to hook each person. That's 8×12=96 seconds. Add that to objective time 720+96=816. There's some factors I didn't account for, but this is just basic knowledge. That's 816 seconds for killer, versus 528 seconds of survivor objective time. So that's 816-528=288. That's roughly a 5 minute objective time difference. Normally chases don't reach bloodlust 2 because then that means you are horribly ineffeciant. Bloodlust isn't a problem.
Nerf Myers? Are you kidding? 60 seconds of instadown is the same as tier 3 of make your choice. So should we nerf that too? Myer'so doesn't need a nerf and if you want more variety trying to nerf killers isn't the way to go.
Except it is nowhere near close. While Make your choice only gives you an instadown, just like Haunted Grounds, Myers gets increased lunge range, increased movement speed, increased terror radius (which gets useful if you are running perks like Unnerving Presence). Might as well play a shooter in which you get an infinite ammo rifle that kills on one shot, without ever needing to reload.
He's an M1 killer for 60 seconds. If a chase hits bloodlust 2 (using same math from earlier because it's easier lol) that's 30 seconds. Let's say it takes him 20 seconds to level him up from tier 2 to tier 3 (At base with no add ons) that's a 50 second chase. He's saving roughly 10 seconds a chase using an instadown. Where are you getting increased terror radius from? His tier 3 power has a standard 32 meted terror radius.
- Every perk listed is fine except for DS. The only problem is it doesn't have true counterplay unlike all the other perks.
Wrong. Each perk listed is not fine. People who only want to see DS nerfed, with no other perks, are the same people who claim it has "no hard counter", but then forget that also NOED has no hard counter. You are one of those who run NOED every game, I assume. A hard counter is something that directly counters that thing, preventing it from happening in an easy way. Having to look for 5 totems and destroy them is just A counter, not a hard one. As dropping DS players is A counter, not a hard one.
I agree some perks need nerfed. No, I only use NOED as a meme build with nurse where I teleport through the gates at the end with insidious. Looking for 5 totems literally completely prevents NOED from happening. And the cleansing of said totems aren't situational, you can cleanse the 5 at your own will. Dropping a survivor only works if 1 you are close to a hook and 2 if no one bodyblocks. Even then DS can still occur later.
- BBQ&C is fine as is. Yes hiding behind a gen is a counter, devs even acknowledged this by making surv aura same color as gen aura. Hide in the killers' terror radius, or simply walk one way count to for then turn around.
If hiding behind a gen was a counter, survivor auras would be completely invisible behind gens, because they would be of the exact same colour. If you had looked carefully, you would have noticed how easy it is to still spot said survivors, since auras are not coloured in the same exact gradiation of red.
They essentially are. They are colored the exact same gradient of red to give BBQ another counter. I'm not saying it's weak and needs buffed, I'm simply saying there are ways to play around it. Also you can hide in the killers terror radius, or walk one way count to 4 then turn around.
- I don't really care if this change is implemented either way.
Which makes me understand, if all of the other things you wrote already didn't, you're a killer main.
Again, false assumption. I'm better at killer yes, but I spend about the same amount of time on survivor as I do killer.
And you don't care, because you rarely play survivor, if you ever do. As a killer main, you like that, since you can get easy hooks without making any effort or needing any skill.
If you think killer is easy that's hilarious. Everyone knows killer is stressful (hence the whole civ 5 meme).
- No, survivors have more than they should when it comes to totems. Totems are already in horrible spots and survivors can spawn directly next to them. Huntress lullaby can be detected before it even gets any use. Survivors need a nerf here and don't need notifications when a hex perk triggers. It's easy to look at the survivors health in the lower left. If someone instantly goes down before exit gates are powered assume DH, and if someone gets instadowned after gates assume NOED.
So, you killer mains are always whining about survivors needing more things to do, yet you never want them to?
Again assuming I'm a killer main. I do wish survivors had more things to do, but not at the expense of me losing a whole perk slot.
I must have lost the meaning of this. I will be more encouraged to go seek totems, especially now that NOED got so ready for unskilled players of every rank.
NOED only activates against bad survivors who can't cleansee 5 totems. That's not saying killers who use it are skilled either.
And it is one of those things which SWF groups can communicate to each other, while solo players can't.
I whole-heartedly agree killers are stronger than solo queue survivors. I think we should make solo survivors as strong as SWF and balance it from there. One way would be making bond/empathy etc. be a base part of the game and have the perks associated extend the range. I'm not entirely sure this would work but it's an idea, I'm willing to admit it could have flaws just like everything I've said so far. I'm not against having a reasonable discussion on the base mechanics.
Following the logic behind BHVR's will to buff solo players like they did with Obsession, it would be only smart to have such an addition.
- Why should the killer be punished for killing (in a normal game with no DC's) 3 survivors before 5 gens can be done? Survivors got beat, killer performed well and should be rewarded with a 4k. Plus 4ks give I think 2500 bonus blood points. The hatch needs reworked, just add a 2 minute timer then if it's a hatch stand off the killer is gonna win and the survivor is gonna have to take an L. Which is 100% fair because the killer performed better than the survivors.
That's the thing, he's not being punished. Not all games should end up in a 4k and not all games should end up in an escape.
No they shouldn't I agree. But if a killer does amazing they deserve a chance at a 4k. However, if a survivor does amazing that doesn't mean they should escape. It's not meant for the survivors to be individually as strong as the killer. They need to work as a team.
There's a reason why people give the hatch to the last person, even if they downed them. But, we all know how toxic this community is, so I'm not surpirised you can't get to that.
Insulting me because I disagree with you? Sad and pathetic.
Your whole reasoning, in every single aspect of your post, is " Killer is love, people playing killers are better than survivors blah blah blah". I just had a game in which I completed three gens on my own, with Ruin still on the go.
Good job, that takes skill and probably isn't something I could accomplish.
That means I performed better than the other survivors, since they also did their first gen by the time I completed my second one. So I have to get it stuck up my a*s because you demand a 4k, just because you are playing killer?
I'm not demanding a 4k. I'm saying the survivors are built like a team and each individual survivor shouldn't be as strong as the killer.
People keep saying survivors are the power role. While I don't belive that is true, I am sure it isn't so on PS4. Lack of 360s, bad frame rate, massive frame drops and less smooth gameplay make it easier to be a killer.
Do you play killer? If so what rank? That doesn't just hurt the survivor, killers are victims of bad optimization as well. When I play killer I've had multiple times where the grab animation starts from pulling someone off a gen but then I end up smacking the gen and having to do a full chase.
Oh, and another thing. If you try to compare useful survivor perks to useful killer perks, the ratio will be completely in the killer's favor.
Because it's 4 killer perks vs. 16 survivor perks. The killers' perks should be stronger.
Survivors really have few good perks which, again, makes it easier to play killer. But I'm sure you know that
Survivors' have some horrible perks yes I agree. Some should be reworked.
If it gets done well, I am convinced Last Year: The Nightmare will destroy DbD. Lots and lots of survivors, tired of endless chases and camping, will probably leave to go play Last Year.
Then good for last year. I want the better product to always succeed.
By the time that happens, people like you will either have to understand what's wrong with their way of seeing things or end up needing more than a couple hours to fill their killer lobbies.
If it takes longer than about 30 seconds I restart the lobby. If this doesn't work after about 3 tries I switch to the other side.
As much as I like DbD (while disliking its community), that is something that is probably going to happen.
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I have no memory of this place.ChesterTheMolester said:@Tsulan
Someone with a Bill avatar unironically wants Freddy nerfed. Where are you?
Oh wait, it's about nerfing Freddy.
If people still lose against Freddy, then they really need to stop watching YT or blast loud music while playing. He's one of the easiest killers to avoid.0 -
@Damarus said:
I think there is still A LOT to do for this game, and many ways to improve it.
In the long run, it gets more repetitive than it should be, with killers tunneling survivors until they die, from the moment they are found, and survivors trying to escape, until their chase ends on a hook.
So, here I have a few ideas which I think would make the game better, some about gameplay, some just about intel.
Before we get to it, let's try to keep the usual toxicity out of here, and people whose contribution would be things like "git gud", please get out of here without even reading. If you want to disagree, that's fine to me, but do it in a civilized way. I will range from killer to survivor, so here we go.Tunneling and camping: Two of the things, both in the killer's hands, which make the game the most unfun experience it can be. 90% of the killers I've run into, both in personal gameplay and youtube videos, only seem to tunnel that very same person, until they finally manage to get the hook. Sure, there are pallets, but those are not just for personal use, you have to leave them available for teammates too. I have a different definition of these two terms, anyway. To me, tunneling is following the same survivor, even for a hour, until you manage to get him on the hook. If you happen to be very close by, whenever a survivor is unhooked, that is not tunneling, as it is only clever to go after the weaker target (unless you keep chasing him the whole game). If you are chasing another guy while the hooked one gets saved and you leave the chase just so you can get the guy who has just been saved, that is tunneling, however close you might be. Camping, on the other hand, is not to be considered as such, if the exit gates are open AND the hooked survivor is very close to one of them. If you know for sure another survivor is near, trying to get the save, that's also not camping. In these scenarios, I prefer to define that as "securing kills". But if you stand still in front of a hooked survivor or go back to check on him every minute, that is camping.
Now that we got the definitions, let's talk about how to address them. There should be some big, perceivable punishment for this. As a game, it is meant to entertain, each and every single one of those who are playing it. And it's true, it's not the killer's concern to make you have fun. It is the developers' job to make that true. Losing out on emblems is not as perceivable as it should be. I would suggest halving (or even less) the BP gain for those who camp, while still taking into consideration if the hooked guy is the last survivor or if there are any survivors near. As for tunneling, I don't know how to address that without punishing the killer just for facing good survivors but, if you have any suggestions about that, you're welcome. The only thing I can think about as of right now, would be that of giving the tunneled player an increasing interaction speed bonus the longer he has been tunneled, which ends after 10 seconds from when he lost the killer (being hooked does not count). The killer, on the other hand, could get a momentary nerf to his interaction speed and hit cooldown.Bloodlust: Another problem here, killers are rewared for not breaking pallets during a chase and for respecting said pallets. I would completely remove this mechanic, or at least make it so it doesn't go over Bloodlust I. Another thing I was thinking about is to let that be the same as it is now, but remove all tiers in case of a missed hit, be it because of hitting obstacles or nothing at all.
Killer tiers: Aren't you tired to always find yourself facing Billys, Nurses or Myers? There has to be some variety in a game, and other killers need to be made viable too. But viable does not mean they must act as different skins of previously quoted killers, each applying the same pressure a Billy can. And it does not mean each killer should be godly either, or have abusive and unnecessary mechanics like innate aura reading (Freddy). Especially in a game like this, where balancement can be such a thin line, these things need to be very well thought, before they are applied.
Evil Within III: There is not much to say here, except for the fact that having a 60 sec instadown with increased lunge and move speed is too much. I would lower it to 30-35 secs. Not to mention the infinite EWIII add-on...
"Crutch" perks: Some perks need to be redesigned or at least partially reworked. I am talking about Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, No One Escapes Death. I think 95% of the community, including myself, is waiting for the announced DS rework. Exhaustion perks like DH and SB have too much of a little cooldown, DH especially. In a way, though, extending SB's cooldown would take up a perk slot for a limited time use. Dead Hard should get in line with the other exhaustion perks and have a 60sec cooldown, while all exhaustion perks should not be able to reset their cooldown if you are hooked. No One Escapes Death was fine as it was before, there really was no need to apply the Exposed status effect to each tier, making the perk abused in almost every match. Other perks which are part of the game but are NEVER used (e.g. Slippery Meat, Kindred, Prove Thyself, Territorial Imperative, Surveillance and so on) should be redesigned to have additional or completely different effects.
Strong perks: Perks like BBQ & Chilli (which is just one of the examples) need to be more thought about and better balanced. There is no counter this perk (unless you want your teammates to die, in that case you might as well opt for Sole Survivor). Sure, you can get in a certain radius from the hooked survivor, but a good killer will know you're near, if your aura is not shown to him. So he will spot you, either you're close or far. And no, crouching behind gens is not a counter.
BP farming (saves): As I mentioned in another thread, there should be a way to push a button whenever you want to prevent others from saving you just for points, since both you and them know the killer is coming. It should be applied to every hook phase, and work like a turn on/off.
Info and loadout limitations: There should be a way for the killer to check, in game, if some people are part of the same group. Like HybridPanda suggested, there could be some numbers added below survivors, while in lobby, to immediately know if they are part of the same SWF group. Each group would have a number and a color of their own. Say there is a 3 people SWF and a solo player; the SWF group members would all have a blue "1" below their avatar, while the solo player would have an orange "2". I would also like (again suggested by Panda) each player to display a portrait of the survivor they were using, in the end game page.
To put a limit to toxicity, there could be a limitation to the number of flashlights and toolboxes that can be brought into a game from the lobby. Flashlight would be limited to 1 and toolboxes to 2, no matter if it's a SWF group or solo players.Totems: I would really like to have a on HUD indicator which shows how many totems (hex or dull) are still up, to both killer and survivors. It would also be a way to encourage players into seeking out those totems, instead of only focusing on gens. Also, some more points could be rewarded for breaking both hex and dull totems.
Map balancing: The new pallet and hook system that was created with the mid-chapter patch is a good thing and a step forward, but every map should be looked at separately while applying these kind of changes. Maps like Family Residence almost have no pallets at all.
Hatch: I would remove the ability, for the killer, to pull survivors who are jumping into the hatch. If I killed three survivors and the last one has to rely on the hatch to make his escape, that's a win to me. For those who really feel the need to tryhard that much, there is always the chance of slugging survivors. This change would completely remove the "need" for hatch standoffs and make won/lost games get by faster. A certain timer could also be added from the moment the hatch opens. When that time ends, the only escape is that of gens. Said timer should be displayed to the last survivor, but not to the killer. In this case though, if the last survivor manages to make his escape with gens, exit doors should open in just 5 seconds, even if the killer has Remember Me.
1) Neither of these things can ever be "fixed", nor should they be. It sucks when it happens to you yes, but they are legitimate strategies. Camping a hooked Survivor as a Killer is a pretty safe way to catch other survivors, or in other words, to complete your objective. People need to remember that the Killer is trying to KILL everyone. They are not there to give you a little spook, they are there to take your Survivor and put them on a hook. If they decide to "camp" (Which can mean anything from face-camping to sticking around a thirty meter area), they accept the risk that the other survivors will focus on gens. I personally run Dark Sense for the very purpose of helping me spot a camping Killer.
"Tunneling" falls into the same field. My objective as a Killer is to get that sweet, sweet 4K. Even if I can't get that, I want to kill as many Survivors as possible. With that said, if I were chasing a perfectly healthy, never hooked Meg and I see the injured Jake I've hooked twice, who do you think I'm going for? Killing that Jake gets me a kill and BP, and deprives Survivors of one Survivor, which means more time spent on gens and greater chance of death by hook. If I also injure a Survivor, lose them, than find them in a group, I'm going after the injured one since they'll be easier to down and hook.
I would also argue it is not the developers job to make sure you have fun. Yes, they need to provide the right kind of environment, but the only person with any control over your emotions is you. I'm not saying you have to enjoy being camped or tunneled or slugged, but these things are never going away because there will always be players whose only concern is whether or not they win.
2) Bloodlust was implemented to help end infinite loops and chases. Why should a Killer spend the whole match playing ring around the rosie with me simply because I found the God pallet spot? You also have to remember sometimes the better choice is to NOT break the pallet, but just go around and continue your chase.
3) I kind of agree here. Each Killer should be as viable as possible and not just reskins (Love you Leatherface, but your just a nerfed Billy) But to do that, each Killer needs to have a viable reason to play as them. Let's take Freddy for example. You argue his aura reading is to OP, but I'd argue it's the only thing he has going for him right now. When a Survivor is pulled into the dreamworld, the only change for them is action speeds are reduced, most of which can be countered by items or perks, or purposefully failing a skill check to wake yourself up. At least with the aura reading, Freddy can apply pressure to you.
That being said, I'm hoping the Freddy rework instead makes it so that in the Dreamworld you see illusionary pallets and vault spaces.
4) Nothing wrong with EW3 since there is a finite limit to the amount of times you can obtain it, the max I've ever had being five and that was with the combination of add ons that solely increased my obtain rate. Infinite EW3 is annoying, but considering you need to essentially stalk EVERY Survivor completely to obtain it, I'd say it has it's nerf built in. Just repair those gens quickly.
5) I'd argue perks are fine, but I honestly don't really run into any of these a ton. Really what the devs need to do is buff other perks to make them more viable, because some are just plain useless unless paired with a specific perk build. Kindred is actually a pretty useful perk to run if you want to ruin a camper's day.
6) Again, BBQ is really fine as is. I've read most people actually use it for the BP gain. And yes, crouching behind a gen is a counter since it makes you harder to see.
7) Yes, please. I'm guilty of it to, so I'd like to believe most are well meaning, but sometimes it's better to just lead the Killer away and give someone else the save.
8) Definitely mark SWF groups. Killers and Survivors should be given the option to choose whether or not they want to deal with that crap. Loadouts should also be completely hidden until the very end of the match so that one person can't kill themselves and than feed information to the others.
Limiting loadouts is a bad idea. Survivors should get the choice of what they want to bring in, regardless of how frustrating it is to go against 4 flashlights or toolboxes. Besides, that would only increase lobby dodges from Survivors who don't feel like not being able to bring a toolbox just cause Jake got into the lobby first.
Suggestion though to fix last second swaps of items, make it so that once a Survivor readies up, they are "locked". They can still unready and "unlock" to change stuff around, but once locked they are committed to their item, Survivor, offering, etc. Than Killers can start the match once all four Survivors are ready.
9) Totems are fine. At the very least, maybe a perk to help you see totem auras.
10) I feel each map should have it's own unique strengths, so I agree here. Haddonfield feels like a smaller Springwood to me, though I prefer Haddonfield personally. Family Residence though has it's strength in the grass though. Kind of like Coldwind Farms where Survivors can better lose Killers in the corn, Residence a lucky Survivor can lose a Killer by getting out of sight long enough to hide in grass. I've had quite a few walk by me.
11) I keep hearing you can grab Survivors who jump in the hatch, but I've still yet to see it. That aside though, that's something a Survivor should be smarter about. If you're both at the hatch and you think they can make the grab, let them hit you first to stun the Killer while they have their weird blood obsession moment so you can make the getaway. If a Killer is lucky enough to catch a hatch jumper, than all they did was catch the Survivor the same way they caught a vaulter or pulled them off the gen. It is up to the Survivor to survive. Killers don't owe a Survivor anything.
Now, these are just my opinions to your points, and I do agree these things need to be discussed. Let's just all try to keep thing somewhat civil, eh?
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@Damarus said:
@Mister_xD said:
WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO PUNISH A CAMPING KILLER?!?ffs no one in here ever got the idea of rewarding not camping killers .-. (ive seen 1 post suggesting rewards for non campers and about 20+ posts that want them to get punished)
guys! punishing the killer is not a good idea!besides that, i have free movement. i can go wherever i want on the map, you cant forbid me to stay near a hooked survivor. lets be real here: survivors are like gens to the killer: when they are on the hook, the progress goes up. you wouldnt start a gen, get it to 33% and then leave and let the killer reset it to 0%, right? why should we killers do that then? at this point, the only difference between a survivor and a generator is, that the survivors are actual people, while the gens are just like npcs, they have no feelings.
No one gets the idea of rewarding a no-camping killer for many reasons:
- The chances you find one are close to non-existant;
- Killers already get lots and lots of points, especially with BBQ;
- You can't really reward someone for doing what he is supposed to do, which is the most important thing. You can't go to your job employer and ask him for money just because you presented yourself at work.
If there are that many posts about punishing camping, and devs are also VERY SOFTLY trying to do so, it should make a question mark pop in your head.
so many things wrong with this post...
lets just focus on your arguments here:
1. "The chances you find one are close to non-existant;" funny. i barely encounter real campers at all. and as killer i usually avoid caping. that said, i dont mind coming back to the hook when i feel like it or when i see someone arounf in that area. especially if ive seen / heard them before, i will stay close. seriously. at red ranks, camping killers are a rare thing to encounter, as this playstyle does not pay off. tunneling on the other hand does, so these guys are still there (including me, IF A: im a weak killer or B: you are literally on the nearest hook to an opened exit gate. sorry, but you will have to endure this camp)
2. "Killers already get lots and lots of points, especially with BBQ;" your argument here, is that campers are bathing in points, which is simply not true. camping barely gives any points at all and a camper usually leaves the round with less points than the survivors (unless the one that got camped), if they were smart enough to do gens and not sitting around the hook until the person died. (btw, campers only get 1 BBQ stack, which means +25% more BP instead of 4 stacks when not camping, which equals +100% more BP)
3. "You can't really reward someone for doing what he is supposed to do, which is the most important thing. You can't go to your job employer and ask him for money just because you presented yourself at work." oh, but you can punish me for doing my job? a camping killer is doing nothing more but his objective. and please remember these words: a killers job IS NOT to just leave the hook and let you get off. the killers job is to kill. and if that means, that he camps you, he did nothing but his job. he fullfilled it, you cant ######### at anything there. now, we have 2 options: 1: you live with the fact that killers are camping when they feel like it or 2: you give the killer something worthy of leaving the hook, so you can have some more fun as survivor and get your, so heavily desired, 2nd chance. BBQ is a good example here: give the killer bonus points and lead him away from the hook by showing potential other victims, so the hooked guy can be saved with no risk.
i feel like a big thing this community has to learn is, that always punishing one side is the wrong way to do things. instead, reward said side for doing other things. an perfect example for the killerside is camping. lets say a hooked survivor dies twice as fast while 35 meters away from the killer. now the killer has a reason to leave, as its very well possible, that the survivor might hit struggle / dies on that hook, before the team can go to rescue him and that the team will be interrupted from the gens, cause they need to save the hooked person, if they dont want him to die asap. see? win win. killer gets a nice little bonus and survivors are not getting camped anymore.
another example would be the genrush: give survivors a tasty secondary objective and the games will last waay longer than now, as the event showed. so instead of punishing survivors for doing gens, you reward them for not doing so. but im sure this is something entirely else and that i have no clue what im talking about, right? cause there is no problem with the survivor side, its aways the killer. always.1 -
You have issues with t3 michael for 60 seconds. What about billy and cannibals CONSTANT instant down mechanic? Mm is a little shorthanded in the one down category tbh.0
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I wouldn't say short handed as unlike them he doesn't need to charge for each hit, has the longest lunge and range and faster vault speed which denies avoiding it with infinites. Its also on demand once on 99%.Carpemortum said:You have issues with t3 michael for 60 seconds. What about billy and cannibals CONSTANT instant down mechanic? Mm is a little shorthanded in the one down category tbh.
Its fine as it is, in fact he only suffers from genrushing, which is a more universal problem and not just his.0
