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Making Decisive Strike look F-Tier
Decisive Strike is extremely meta defining because its existence in a match forces a Killer to change their playstyle. So what if there was a perk that was even more meta defining.
Introducing my idea for the strongest anti-tunnel perk in the entire game:
All For One
You cannot be killed or sacrificed until all Survivors in the trial have at least one hook state.
"What do you think you're doing? My friends still need me."
The threat of this perk would make camping or tunneling out an early kill impossible. All the sudden facecamping, insidious camping, setting 90000 traps in the basement and proxy camping instead of pressuring gens would all go away. Because it wouldn't be worth the effort or give any sort of advantage.
Killers would consider hooking all four Survivors before getting their first kill to be the standard and would never try to circumvent that. We all use BBQ anyway to monitor how many Survivors we've hooked, so good players probably would be fine with the change and bad players wouldn't be able to grief Survivors or cheese out wins.
Comments
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jokes on you i throw the game for bbq stacks so this perk would do literally nothing and change nothing about how i play B)
28 -
DS never bothered me as Killer, but this? This frightens me.
I think instead of punishing Killers for tunneling, we reward them for un-tunneling (?). Increased BP for hunting down another Survivor after the one you hooked is rescued, perhaps.
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I like the idea of perks that encourage various playstyles, but given the amount of perks that already exist to punish tunneling and camping, I would rather a perk that helps mitigate the insanely overpowered and fun-destroying anti-m1, hold-W, slam-gen, insadrop-pallet playstyle. I don't even know what kind of perk would fix that without making Nurse and Spirit even more OP though, I just with it existed.
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Sounds good but in exchange add my anti survivor grief perk for killers.
Leave or Die
If you are blinded more than 2 times consecutively that survivor gets blinded themselves for 3 seconds. Upon the gates being open any survivor waiting within 12 meters of the exits without leaving gets instantly sacrificed.
”The preys mockery only serves to anger the entity”
Seems fair since good players won’t be affected by it but bad players can’t cheese escapes or grief the killer.
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It be like that sometimes.
9 -
Healthier design would be
All For One
You cannot be killed or sacrificed until all Survivors in the trial with this perk have at least one hook state as long as you are saved before the timer runs down
if you are hooked while not all survivors have at least one hook state take a hook state from one of the other survivors with this perk equipped that haven't been hooked yet and repeat stage 2 (can still die if timer runs out)
you can take up to 1/2/3 hook states from teamates
if all survivors have been hooked at least once this perk deactivates
"What do you think you're doing? My friends still need me, and I need them."
no immortality because claudette is hiding in a corn field instead swipe her hook state from her
basically can force 1 survivor to have 5 hook states before dying
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Instead of punishing people playing effectively, something should be done to make NOT tunnelling viable.
As much as people want to deny it, tunnelling someone out early is THE most efficient strat in the game, and is crucial for beating high level teams especially on unbalanced maps.
Instead of adding something like this in - which buffs SWF by a lot and punishes the killer for playing smartly - something should be done to make going for separate hooks viable.
Once we are in a state of the game where you can separately hook everyone and everyone has an even chance of winning, then something like this can be implemented. Until then, tunnelling will remain the best strat.
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So you like every match pre determined that you win... Got it.
That'd be like a killer perk:
- ENTANGLED ENTITLEMENT.
If survivors complete generators at a rate of more than 1 per 3 minutes, all survivors suffer the exposed status effect and have their auras reveals for the remainder of that 3 Minutes.
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I did a test, I recorded every time I used DS for the past few days.
Statistically, 8/10 times when I used DS, I still would have been able to use it even if it had been nerfed; because I never had the chance to do anything else anyways because I was ACTUALLY being tunneled.
About 2/10 times I actively just abused it, and intentionally got in the killer's face and kinda abused it to buy time for my team even after having done other things, often jumping in a locker and making them eat a DS when I honestly only had like 5 seconds or something of it left; and getting more out of it than I honestly should have.
So sure it's a nerf but I mean, the only concern I really have is if a stealth killer decides to stalk you off hook and wait till you so much as touch something to jump you and kill you negating your DS entirely. Other than that it seems totally reasonable to me.
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I'm sorry, that's just a straight up terrible idea. The whole team could run it and designate one person to stealth the whole game so nobody can be killed...
2 -
That perk idea is really strange because it sounds like the first SWF exclusive perk because it requires other people to run it to be used in the first place. If you brought it in solo queue and no one else had it, it would go to waste.
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By that logic, people would already do that to counter slugging the entire team. Just designate one person to stealth and eventually pick everyone back up. But it doesn't happen. It's almost like relying on one teammate to not get chased isn't possible in this game with the variety of Killers and Perks that can help with tracking. Not to mention the massive disadvantage of having teammate that can't do gens or hook saves (because those actions would risk the Killer finding them).
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I think the bigger issue than someone hiding is definitely the main issue with pre-nerf DS; survivors abusing it to 'chase' the killer and force them to hit them instead of another survivor.
Perk as written if SWF had 2 people with this perk, they could do a really good job of disrupting the killer with effective immunity. Ironically this would lead to the third thing people don't like killers doing; slugging. Perk as written the survivor could still bleed out on the ground, so the killer would be forced to slug them as nothing else would work.
Perhaps another solution (with its own set of sandbag related problems) would be to have a perk with some kind of compensation for an early kill, so the killer is not so incentivised to tunnel against good players.
A final note is that for non-trap based killers my understanding is if the killer camps/tunnels one survivor they will lose to a good group (1 minute per hook state (2 total) + 30 seconds to find at start + chase time, will leave most gens already popped if survivors are efficient).
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yea, its a risky to use perk in solo queue
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Lol I'm gonna have to heavily disagree... People don't hide to avoid 4 slugs, they pick someone up while the killer is after someone else because it's more efficient than waiting for the next person to drop. It isn't all that hard to play stealthy, it's just less efficient.
Having one person unable to work on gens or really do anything that could lead to the killer finding them isn't at all a disadvantage in this situation considering the trade off is immortality for anyone running this perk. Plus it doesn't even have to be a stealthy survivor, they could just be a god at looping, or someone could be ready with a flashlight save at all times.
Being slugged with the threat of bleeding out and being slugged with immortality as long as one person doesn't get hooked are two entirely different things. Imagine if you've got four immortal slugs, nobody has any way to get back up. Killer decides to let you all just crawl around forever because at least one person hasn't been hooked yet. I really don't think that's what anyone wants for this game.
I'm just saying I think we could come up with much better ways to counter tunneling than this. A new survivor meta with this would more than likely result in a drastic decline in killers and much longer queues for survivors... Nobody wants that.
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Whole different ballgame, because in that case, the killer can actually kill the survivors. They're right for making this argument, not a like of killer perks help find a survivor who's actively hiding (as long as they're completely dedicated to hiding), but instead give a rough idea of the survivors location. It's why it's so frustrating to go against 2 survivors who decide to hide once the game has been thrown, it's incredibly hard to find a survivor who isn't actively playing an objective. In this case, the survivor could just hide while the other three play the long game, as they'd eventually win with the killing being unable to do anything but slow their progress.
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tunneling is necessary sometimes, to have a chance and is part of the game, if you spread the hooks by every survivor it's ineficient to win matches. you can deny something like that. killers also want to win.
It would increase the waiting time in the lobby more than it already is. Why do you always propose things like this? the game does not revolve around the survivors, the killers also have the right to have fun.
1 -
To truly rid tunnelling you really have to tactically make it worsen the chances for the killer winning in all aspects. Not just a bp incentive.
Naturally something would have to change for survivor in the 1v4 to balance.
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"Variety of Killers and Perks that help with tracking."
The only Killers with tracking built into their kits are Twins, Doctor, and Legion, if I'm not mistaken, excluding Oni, as you would have to find the survivor in the first place. And hiding in a locker completely negates the tracking of most perks, and Twins and Doctor.
So let's say we have a 4-Man SWF, 3 running this hypothetical perk, and then a 4th, Blendette, with Iron Will, Urban Evasion, Distortion, and Fixated. Good survivors know how to counter BBQ, they would know not to be near gens when they pop in case of Butter Murmur, they wouldn't have to heal, neither themselves not their teammates since their teammates are immortal, so Nurses Calling is out. Wraith and Pig have add-ons that can help but then you're using a subpar killer, and even then it's risky, the final survivor could just calculate how often they need to move and go from locker to locker. Iron Maiden could counter that but it's just an absolutely awful idea.
As a killer main, please Devs, I am begging you, don't make the game more Survivors sided than it already is.
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If the devs cared to listen they wouldn't be making game breaking nerfs of buffs. It's simple. If a person is in a 3 to 4 swf buff the killer, weaken the survivors and nerf perks. All problems have just been solved there. If they're running solo or single swf they're still at the mercy of 3 to 4 other killers getting them killed. If your 4 man sweaty swf red rank came with only 1 perk killers wouldn't be raging and ripping their hair out, ds wouldn't need to get nerfed and everyone would have a better time. The devs keep making blanket changes as a fix all end all and no one comes out happy in the end, periodt.
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Horrible idea.
Have one survivor hide all game and the killer can't win.
Rewarding not tunneling will always be better then punishing tunneling.
Something like for every death survivor other survivors get a 33% gen speed boost called despiration. And they recieve a 15% penalty to speed while injured.
Reward killers who spread the damage and injure everyone and give survivors a fighting chance when teammates start going down
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And then killers would got the same for gen rushing.
Speed limit
- All generators become blocked for 30 minutes or until all survivors were hooked at least once.
Sounds about as balanced as All for one.
Now seriously, even if your perk existed, the only things it would accomplish is massive rise in 4 man slugging builds. People would hate such massive limit on free decison making and most likely would do their best to cheese it besides everyone would complain about it so much that it'd get nerfed faster then old MoM.
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The accuracy of this statement hurts my soul
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Jokes on you I accidently do this all the time.
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I'm sorry but if you think instadropping pallets is OP then you are playing the game wrong. Genrushing can be hard when a good survivor loops you well but it is rarely advantageous for survivors to instadrop pallets
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No, actually playing safe while your teammates slam gens is insanely strong. You leave the survivor, they start a gen and you waste even more time. You catch someone in the deadzone and they just waste time holding W. There's no counterplay except playing Nurse, Spirit or Blight. Gens get done in under 5 minutes, you don't have time to utilise the deadzone. Survivors escape by default. Should have played Nurse baby killer.
It's honestly one of the worst things in DbD. It's like if facecamping was an unbeatable killer strat, it takes zero effort and always results in a win.
1 -
I severely hope you're joking...sometimes "tunneling" is the only option for example when you can't find any other survivor and if you say "you should let them go" then that entirely removes the point of playing killer if I see someone I'm gonna chase them and if I see an injured person along with a healthy I'd go for whoever is best in that situation
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Imagine if killers also had stupid made up rules for survivors... "hey buddy, you just dropped 3 pallets in 30 seconds, now you HAVE to let me catch up and get a hit in!"
3 -
I thought y'all hated blendettes. Why would you want a perk that basically forces every survivor team to bring one with them?
Moreover, as written, can't be sacrificed, can still be moried or just left to bleed out. The more I think about it, the more this seems like the perfect way to encourage behavior from both sides I see constant complaints about here.
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One other thing to add to this (would edit but it removes my posts when I do, more often than not)
What happens to the hooked survivor with this perk when your team decides it's "gens over friends" and leave you hooked? Do you stay in struggle until everyone has been hooked and then die? Do you get unhooked by the entity as a freebie?
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Will it counter slugging?
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lol
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Killers are already getting a perk that can effectively block the gate controls for up to 40 seconds I guess they heard your complaints about gate camping survivors
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Under that specific circumstances I don't consider that tunneling .To me tunneling is when there are 2 or 3 survivors there and you specifically go after the one that was just unhooked.
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Let's just simplify this to make it a true anti tunnel perk . If you are put into dying state and you were the last survivor hooked you cannot be picked up by killer until another player has been hooked.
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I heard decisive was getting nerfed, what hapoened to that? Also this is the most entitled perk ive ever seen in any game.
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How has no one else caught on to OP?
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I like the idea but I wouldn't make it the whole team maybe 2 other people
Some games there is that jake who waits for hatch or that claudette who you don't see until the end of the game t bagging the door
So the new meta would be the hide in the closet meta where one dude does nothing and hides in a closet until the rest open the door and you get 0 kills
I like the idea it works but numbers need to be changed
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Now imagine a squad where 3 players do gens and one plays immersed, walking around the corners of the map, hiding in lockers when someone is getting hooked.
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What's to stop a survivor from hiding in one place the entire match?
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You could just run this on 3 people and have one baby dwight locker hop all game long and just win.
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Bruh there is literally only two perks that punish killers for tunneling and camp and one of them got nerfed to hell twice
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Tbh i kinda like the idea but at the same time i mean the nerf could been better the way i would have nerfed is you have 45 seconds to use it that's my opinion . But alll jokes asides i love it only because it make survivors stop abusing the perk and would have no choice to but either do gens or or other actions or don' t use it at all.
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As someone said here sometimes tunneling is the best option we just sucks but it's just how it is sometimes but usually it i "tunnel" it's bc I smack injured and then chase the healthy if they are both injured I may go for both stuff like "tunneling" really just depends on the situation
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Do you mean the perk is a joke? Bc if so I hope so I was legit scared
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Holy moly, what a terrible idea for a perk. Here, I'll throw in my own perk.
Perk Name: No
The survivors can not leave the exit gates or hatch until the killer gets at least two sacrifices.
"We want to balance the game to have two sacrifices and two escapes." -BHVR
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I don't see why killers should be punished for tunneling.. actually you get punished for letting survivors heal themselves.. so you let them go, you lose points if they heal..
It's like loopers getting intoxicated if they loop..
Both loopers and tunneling are game strategies.. both effective, both are not fun for the receiving side, but it's part of the game..
Survivors need to survive, so some take advantage of the maps.. killers need to kill, so they need to be effective..
Play whatever you like if the game allows it..
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Ideas involving balancing this game around the idea that people always change their behaviors based on in game currency rewards need to stop. Some of us just want to play the sport and win. Points are nice, but I won't jeopardize losing the game for them.
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Its a very bad idea. This happens because the killer is smart and will kill someone early or the survivor makes all the dumbest moves possible which gets them killed. It may not be fun but it doesn't happen that many times anyways so there would be no point to do this.
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This seems a little too open to abuse, and unwinnable games.
How about:
You start the game with 3 tokens. Every time a hook state (so not unique survivors) is lost, this perk loses a token. When you are hooked and you lose a hook state, you lose a token and regain 20/25/30 seconds of hook progression (half a hook state).
This way, with 2 tokens still up you essentially get a third hook state.
If three other people get 1 hook, or one person is sacrificed (regardless of if it was one hook or they died on first hook), or any combination of three hook stages pass, then the perk is dead. But if you are any of those first three hook stages, you essentially get half of each one back.
If you're the first hook and get camped, that's 90 extra seconds the killer has to waste time camping you and losing gens.
Additionally, it would incentivise anyone with this perk to go and save a survivor, and not let them lose 2 hook states on one hook, and if they do end up getting hooked for making that save, they get the extra time on the hook for it.
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