Can we have a mature discussion?
Does one side REALLY have it worse than the other?
Survivors have face-campers, they have various abilities and offerings which seem rather useless, and not to mention the constant battle of solo players trying to keep up with toxic SWF's.
Killers have loopers, body-blockers, Hex totems spawning next to survivor spawns, and of course toxic survivors.
but for the most part it just seems like each are trying to play the "victim" card.
Comments
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I'm leaning slightly toward killer having it worse.
SWF is super common, even at lower levels, and abuse of the communication, and coordination makes playing killer a slice of hell.
Killers can also have their games held hostage unless you do a trick when survivors crack the whip.
I breeze through being survivor. I may not escape every time, but I make decent BP, and I'm unwillingly ranking up.
I can't say the same for killer.
Survivors have to deal with bs, tho. Not going to pretend they don't.5 -
@Avariku said:
I play both sides of the field, so I have a hard time actually seeing which side is worse. Both Killer and Survivor "usually" have valid points, but each group has people screaming and crying that they are being abused by the other side.Does one side REALLY have it worse than the other?
Survivors have face-campers, they have various abilities and offerings which seem rather useless, and not to mention the constant battle of solo players trying to keep up with toxic SWF's.
Killers have loopers, body-blockers, Hex totems spawning next to survivor spawns, and of course toxic survivors.
but for the most part it just seems like each are trying to play the "victim" card.
I'll give a very short summary of something I said a long time ago.
The reason so many people hate on each other and have conflicting viewpoints (aside from this being the internet) is because Dead By Daylight isn't clear in what direction it wants to go with its horror themed game. They try to balance this game as if its suppose to be competitive one day then suddenly add in perks and mechanics that are far more gimmicky and meant for simple fun. Since the game has no clear direction you have people who believe this game is competitive and should be balanced as such and you have people that believe this game should be more casual and balanced for fun rather than equilibrium.That is what I believe is one of the major factors with how split the community has become.
Take Black Ops's Blackout Battle Royal and you can see it wants to be more "realistic" and "competitive" then compare that to a game like Totally Accurate Battlegrounds that has a clear direction of being a fun and wacky Battle Royal experience. Both games are balance differently and both have a understood expectation of what the game is going to be about.
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@Avariku said:
I play both sides of the field, so I have a hard time actually seeing which side is worse. Both Killer and Survivor "usually" have valid points, but each group has people screaming and crying that they are being abused by the other side.Does one side REALLY have it worse than the other?
Survivors have face-campers, they have various abilities and offerings which seem rather useless, and not to mention the constant battle of solo players trying to keep up with toxic SWF's.
Killers have loopers, body-blockers, Hex totems spawning next to survivor spawns, and of course toxic survivors.
but for the most part it just seems like each are trying to play the "victim" card.
You want to have a mature discussion, but I ask you. What exactly are you trying to discuss?
The real issue is the gap between solo and SWF. SWF are able to litrally bully killers, but as a solo survivor its sometimes insanely difficult to get anything done. My suggestion: add ingame voice comms and balance the game around that
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i do agree that survivors have it hard sometimes, but on the other hand it really sucks when you as the killer dont even stand a fair chance.
i personally dont have a problem with it, when im getting outskilled, but usually they just rush the gens and loop me on the huge amounts of save pallets / windows, which is just frustrating. an fitting example of that would be my previous doctor round at rank 1: we enter the tompson building and i spawn at the shack. i see my totem being next to the building somewhere, so i go there. on my way to it, ruin has been destroyed. im like half a minute in the game now. i find and down a survivor fairly fast, so i get my first hook in exchange for ruin. however, even though i almost instantly found another survivor, 2 gens popped in the time it took me to get my 2nd hook of the game. and it went on like that. we ended the round after 7 or 8 minutes and i got a total of 4 hooks, as it was really ard to catch a survivor, when the exits are powered but in the whole middle game only 3 pallets were destroyed, so they had massive amounts of these in the end game .-.
on the other hand, when i play survivor it very rarely happens that i have a game where i have the feeling that i had literally no chance. usually i get my pip, even if i die, so its way less challenging than as killer (or at least thats how if feels for me), as literally all i need to do is the stealth game, and then loop around the pallets and windows in order to buy my team enough time to genrush the hell out of this killer.0 -
As long as SWF is in the game I say killers.
I know this won't happen but they should remove the option to SWF or put it into its own playlist. And if the game dies...
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First, I appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far, and for most of it I think its pretty reasonable responses.
With that said, I think taking SWF out entirely is a bad option. Perhaps limiting it to 2 players would be a good middle ground. (as in a team would consist of two teams of two friends)
Or at the very least giving us different modes to play that might limit this situation.
however, I feel either of those options would lengthen our already extensive wait times.1 -
I will start by saying that I have experienced very toxic swf groups. Although, most games I don't even care to see if they are swf or not, and I honestly almost prefer it because they will play a lot more altruistic, which means I can kill them all faster. I honestly would love to play more survivor, but I find that the amount of times that I am left on the hook (solo), or camped just makes the game not worth playing to me. I do agree that it is way easier to rank up as a survivor as most of the time when I play survivor it is just to maximize my bloodpoint gains and I end up dying but I still rank up. If something were done about camping, and survivors has in game voice coms/kindred as a game mechanic not a perk, I would enjoy survivor a lot more. I have been given the run around by survivors, and have bullied killers myself. I believe that most of the toxicity in the game is in the fact that the survivors (especially in swf) have way too much power in determining the outcome of any given match, and so to counter that the killers play in a toxic fashion to secure their kills.
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also, I heavily believe that they should utilize an in-game chat mechanic... preferably one that is handled by a radius.
as in, everyone can hear everyone, provided you're within a certain radius. louder the closer you are to that person.
it would solve quite a bit and be pretty realistic since you'd want to shut the hell up when the killer is around.1 -
@Avariku said:
also, I heavily believe that they should utilize an in-game chat mechanic... preferably one that is handled by a radius.as in, everyone can hear everyone, provided you're within a certain radius. louder the closer you are to that person.
it would solve quite a bit and be pretty realistic since you'd want to shut the hell up when the killer is around.
I've seen this idea tossed around, and I have seen that it is a bad idea because people could be very toxic with it and what they say, but I think it could be fixed by having the killer not hear what they say, but instead hear the sound that whispers makes, or maybe a notification like someone fast vaulting.
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I agree that taking SWF out is a bad idea.Avariku said:First, I appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far, and for most of it I think its pretty reasonable responses.
With that said, I think taking SWF out entirely is a bad option. Perhaps limiting it to 2 players would be a good middle ground. (as in a team would consist of two teams of two friends)
Or at the very least giving us different modes to play that might limit this situation.
however, I feel either of those options would lengthen our already extensive wait times.
I prefer one of two options.
1: labeling swf members, and color coding several swfs. If possible include party chats at least on consoles.
2: create a filter to prevent swfs from joining, or being placed in one.
This would help killers not get swfs, and let players that prefer not being teamed with an SWF avoid it.
I'm trying to figure out what's worse. SWFs or wait times, and it's a tough choice.
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That is fair, I'm sure the toxic voice-chat would be very much abused, but I also feel that if reporting such abuse was taken seriously and investigated properly... bans and other punishments would halt that.
however, I do like the idea of the voice-chat notification as opposed to actually hearing them.
however, I feel like the killer should be able to overhear their planning as to incorporate more realistic play. You wouldn't want the killer to know what you're up to, after all.1 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
2: create a filter to prevent swfs from joining, or being placed in one.
This would help killers not get swfs, and let players that prefer not being teamed with an SWF avoid it.I'm trying to figure out what's worse. SWFs or wait times, and it's a tough choice.
Definitely wait times for me chief. I wouldnt mind the filter, It would help me find matches faster haha.
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I play both sides, too. I lean more toward killers having it worse but survivors have some crap to put up with as well, especially if you play solo. I think @MegaWaffle makes a really good point. The devs aren't sure what they want the game to be. And the lack of action taken against toxicity has made the community one of worst I've seen. But the community takes some blame as well. If both sides keep attacking each other like they do, then this game will never be balanced.
I also disagree with the idea that SWF should be removed from the game. As much of an imbalance as it brings, the game would die without it. Not everyone who goes SWF is a toxic squadette with purple toolboxes and DS. A lot of players just want to hang out with friends. The best way to go about SWF, in my opinion, is to buff solo players to that level and than buff killers accordingly.
I think that one of the first steps to fix things in this game would be to target the community as a whole. Take more action against people who hack, DC, or work with the killer against the other survivors. The devs need to communicate more with their audience, as well. They've been getting better at this, but there's still room to improve.
I really like this game and I want it to be better than it is, right now. I just hope the devs keep on track to improve.
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This isn't even a close call, killer is way worse. The negatives of survivor don't even matter if you're a good looper because you don't get caught. Hell even if your team is trash you still get to escape for free from the hatch. Playing survivor at rank 1 is hardly stressful at all, you can watch a show and eat some pizza on the side.
With killer you're gonna eat those loops and toxicity regardless bar a few exceptions like nurse etc. You don't have a choice as killer but it can be avoided as survivor.
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See? that's the thing... perhaps it's being rank 11 killer and 13 (I think) on survivor... but I rarely run into situations as a killer where I just "don't stand a chance".Blueberry said:This isn't even a close call, killer is way worse. The negatives of survivor don't even matter if you're a good looper because you don't get caught. Hell even if your team is trash you still get to escape for free from the hatch. Playing survivor at rank 1 is hardly stressful at all, you can watch a show and eat some pizza on the side.
With killer you're gonna eat those loops and toxicity regardless bar a few exceptions like nurse etc. You don't have a choice as killer but it can be avoided as survivor.
Meanwhile, as a survivor, I run into futile rounds all the time. Either getting camped (and no, I don't mean hard-patrolled, which I'm fine with.), getting farmed, or I'm stuck doing 3-4 gens alone, only to end up being last survivor and unable to locate/escape via hatch.
I'm not sure if I'm just an exception to the general rule, or if others can relate, but that's why I made this post.0 -
I wish for survivors to have it worse! As killers, it's our job to abuse survivors and It's their job to escape.
If killers are getting abused, something is sorely wrong with the game.1 -
I see Killers get looped all match and i see Survivors get ######### on.
Both sides can be #########.
But isn't that what online gaming's all about?
You're behind a monitor, you can unleash whatever horrid personality you have without consequences as long as it's within the game's rules.It's often the unpleasant matches that you remember well.
I betcha everyone has more average and/or good matches than bad matches.2 -
@Avariku said:
Blueberry said:This isn't even a close call, killer is way worse. The negatives of survivor don't even matter if you're a good looper because you don't get caught. Hell even if your team is trash you still get to escape for free from the hatch. Playing survivor at rank 1 is hardly stressful at all, you can watch a show and eat some pizza on the side.
With killer you're gonna eat those loops and toxicity regardless bar a few exceptions like nurse etc. You don't have a choice as killer but it can be avoided as survivor.
See? that's the thing... perhaps it's being rank 11 killer and 13 (I think) on survivor... but I rarely run into situations as a killer where I just "don't stand a chance".
Meanwhile, as a survivor, I run into futile rounds all the time. Either getting camped (and no, I don't mean hard-patrolled, which I'm fine with.), getting farmed, or I'm stuck doing 3-4 gens alone, only to end up being last survivor and unable to locate/escape via hatch.
I'm not sure if I'm just an exception to the general rule, or if others can relate, but that's why I made this post.
Your rank is absolutely the reason why. This isn't a thing at low ranks. When you get to rank 1 it is.
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Read how the emblems work in-depth and it becomes pretty clear, at least it did to me.
Survivors can get points from actions their teams perform, and at a certain point don't really need to worry about losing. Once gen repairs equivalent to a full gen repair have been performed, or two totems have been cleansed, the survivor just needs to stay alive for 9 minutes, before screwing around with the killer for a few minutes and they're sure to pip. Also, survivors could easily maximize their BP gains to killer levels if they took WGLF and stayed in the game long enough to create the opportunity to maximize their bloodpoints.
As the killer, points for emblems require the survivors to stay in the game longer, which can't be guaranteed. If three gens are powered in less than say, 120 seconds, I would bet my gatekeeper emblem is likely going to be bronze, with little to no chance of improving that. If I had to choose between being camped on a hook as my survivor, or genrushed as my killer I would definitely rather be camped on the hook. Sometimes NOED will help counter genrsuh, but amongst 16 perks on the survivors, someone is running small game. There are just too many times Ive used two rare addons that I rarely see in the bloodweb, just to have the match end within 3 minutes.
At the end of the day, we're all just complaining. The game is 'asymmetrical' so it's supposed to be balanced an a way that isn't seemingly fair or obvious. I feel like they've done a good job. Hell, sometimes I like to go up against SWF groups when I have the addons I need.
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@Avariku said:
I play both sides of the field, so I have a hard time actually seeing which side is worse. Both Killer and Survivor "usually" have valid points, but each group has people screaming and crying that they are being abused by the other side.Does one side REALLY have it worse than the other?
Survivors have face-campers, they have various abilities and offerings which seem rather useless, and not to mention the constant battle of solo players trying to keep up with toxic SWF's.
Killers have loopers, body-blockers, Hex totems spawning next to survivor spawns, and of course toxic survivors.
but for the most part it just seems like each are trying to play the "victim" card.
dont forget their doo-doo laws that survivors have (this is a joke about the title if you didnt notice, i am willing to type #########)
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