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Ds being nerfed may be less healthy for the game than people think
Comments
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If you don't think multiple people being able to sit on a gen for 60-ish seconds uncontested twice a game is a bad thing when games can potentially be finished in single-digit number minute counts, IDK what to tell you. Yes, it is the right thing to nerf. People with that specific perk are constantly playing in the most obnoxious way possible just because they know the power of the one perk.
And no, it isn't as simple as "just slug."
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Hey looks like I found a good place to expand my business
Me: "sets up another stand selling pitchforks and torches"
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You should start maining Clown, he suits you.
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This is one of the most needed nerfs the game has ever needed honestly.
Obsessions should always exist regardless of if obsession perks are being used.
Two days ago I kept a tally of how many games (me being on both sides and not using ds) had DS used. I played 20 games. 5 games had all ds users, 6 had 3 users, 6 had 2, and 3 had one. The fact that you can play 20 games in a row and have the same perk exist in every game shows that a perk is at least very powerful. I had more games without DH or BT than I did with DS
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It's not being made more anti-tunnel; in fact, it doesn't even act as anti-tunnel right now. If a strong player is running it, then they get punished for running it with an empty perk slot unless they intentionally go down and we all know that the killer can just watch the slug for a minute anyway. This change is a pathetically short sighted way of dealing with it and the devs were given countless ideas other than this, but they decided to be lazy. (which honestly isn't new)
Post edited by SunderMun on0 -
Whoa there. 👀
The point I’m trying to get at is that: If a Survivor is being tunneled, they obviously can’t do objectives without being downed.
But I think I see what you mean. The Killer can still just tunnel, slug, and call it a day. Or eat DS and continue to tunnel.
The change could always be better, but they’re trying. (Slowly.)
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I'm in two minds about the DS nerf. As a killer it's great because it can no longer be abused, but I can't help feeling that people are missing the bigger picture here. Coordinated SWF's aren't going to care since most of them only bring 1 DS to ensure there is an obsession and then just feed information / smash out generators like it's going out of fashion. What is going to suffer once again will be the soloq experience (as if that wasn't miserable enough). People will either do one of two things:
1) They'll refuse to take any action that will deactivate DS, so people won't get unhooked, gens won't get done, totems being ignored, players with active DS's refusing to heal each other. Face camping will be even stronger as a result since trading and using DS to try and break the deadlock won't be viable (I know, you can slug the trader but it still had some success if the killer got greedy).
2) People will perceive DS to be worthless now and refuse to take it. Tunneling will become even more viable and kill rates will increase as a general trend. If that happens, expect BHVR to start nerfing across the board (hell it's part of the justification they're giving for the Freddy nerfs - not that I'm against it because ######### Freddy).
Nerfing DS is all well and good, but this should have been done in line with looking at tunneling as well as game length in general.
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Oh crap, sorry the caps was an accident. I initially typed most of a sentence, realised it was capitalised, then was like 'OK I'll type it again and then remove the capitals.' I'll edit it out, sorry!
Don't get me wrong, I agree, but I also don't agree with the exact way it's being done. For one, totems shouldn't deactivate, and nor should healing yourself (good medkit healing builds exist) And I don't think it should deactivate, but the timer should go down at an increased rate, while there should also be conditions under which the timer either pauses or at the very least massively slows down, too.
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Hehe beast of prey goes nerf
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Lol it’s fine! 🤗 I figured as such.
And yeah, the healing condition is a bit concerning. (The most concerning for me actually) Especially since some people are able to heal themselves mid-chase to make it last longer.
The timer slowing down would be interesting to see. A friend of mine once got tunneled all game and wished the timer slowed or paused in situations like that.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking with regards to healing oneself.
Exactly. I've had so many cases where even if I'd run DS, I'd still have died for the hard tunnelling because my chases lasted so long. It's incredibly frustrating.
Meanwhile as killer, I don't remember the last time I got hit by DS. Because I don't play like an ass. xD
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With this nerf they should
1) make it a 10 second stun
2) make an obsession every game even with no ds
If we are going to discourage tunneling, let's discourage tunneling
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OMG
I know!
I was self-caring in the corner 20s after being unhooked and the killer came back when I was 31 seconds into my heal!
That's only 51 seconds, so I let him down me, hit that TREMENDOUSLY difficult skill check, and got away.
Filthy tunnelers!
Totally not fair that I didn't get my health state :(
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In lower ranks yes it will hurt game health
in higher ranks it improves it.
the reason is that DS is used to do gens without worry more often which is contributing to fast matches, now killers can at least punish that.
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You don't play killer much I have hooked people than chased a full health survivor down him and got DS. That needs to change. I feel that DS should not be obsession perk, require a skill check and should have unlimited charges. But as soon as you start healing, gen repair any other actions it deactivate till next time. It's supposed to be anti tunnel sadly it's needed but it's not supposed to be a weapon that destroys a game for some one not being a ass
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Its bad enough alone. Mixing it with perks like unbreakable makes it even more annoying but its still too much by itself. The need is perfect.
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If you are actually being tunneled the perk literally hasn't changed so...
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I play killer probably 60% of the time.
I don't tunnel, but I will down whoever I happen to catch. All things being equal, I'll chase the unhooker, but if the unhookee just stands there or otherwise makes themselves the better target they'll get my attention.
But if I get hit with DS, then I **will** tunnel that person out of the game.
DS is literally how you signal to the killer that you want to be tunneled, and I know very few killers who don't play that way.
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Yes. Yes it is.
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I play it plenty. Thanks for telling me what I do in my own free time. :)
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There was never a problem with DS if you didn't want to grab lung attack it does not trigger a grab . I have used that method i couldn't tell you how many times and just left them laying getting nothing done .
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Just eat the ds an move on the real problem is if killers didn't camp slugg tunnel then there wouldn't be so many players useing D's killer mains complain do much about certain perks survivors have but are to stupid to realize they have op perks to counter act so what if nurse calling or BBQ chilli or even make you're choice got nerfed what you gonna do cry because that's all killers do they abuse nurse an BBQ an make you're choice so what's so wrong with D's 😂😂😂😂
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i feel like with the upcoming changes, DS should have two uses to trully counter tunneling, because a real tunneler can just "eat" the DS and continue tunneling and the survivor is dead.
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You don't have 60 free seconds to do a gen. If you had the full 60 seconds without the killer getting to you to take you off then the DS was irrelevant.
You could just avoid grabbing them by lunge attacking at them....
It really doesn't change anything, I've only ever really been putting DS on since being red ranks when I've played multiple games where there's been no obsession so I would concur if there was just an obsession every game then I think you'd find a lot more people choosing not to even run DS which is even better than 'nerfing' or reworking it.
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What SWFs do you face? :) I fight Red Rank SWFs every day, and DS is usually in 3+ of the Survivor Builds. They don't just take it once to ensure there is an Obsession. If that is all they wanted, they would just take OoO (and often do have one person take that Perk too).
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Rank 1 SWF's (EU Region) with 3/4 DS's as well. However, those aren't the types of squads I'm talking about since put bluntly I rarely lose to them. I'm talking about the optimized squads bringing every gen perk/toolbox they can and who are competent enough loopers they don't need DS (even if they choose to take it because reasons). Sure, it will help limit the damage that bully squads can do as well, but often they don't give a ######### about gens in the first place.
The point I'm making is that while DS needed changing, there's going to be unintended side effects that will buff the toxic aspects of gameplay and weaken soloq more than it already is. This change, like keys, should have come as part of a wider review into game length and unhealthy playstyles.
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I feel everything you said here is true, to an extent. I don't fully agree with the notion that Survivors achieve a level of Looping which makes them untouchable, but I will agree that DS isn't actually necessary and some Survivors know it. I, myself, never run DS; I have more pressing Perks I need. However, for those people who do take DS heavily, I don't think this change is going to alter their habits much at all. DS for MOST people (in or out of a SWF) is like Dumbo's Magic Feather. It provides them a sense of well-being, a placebo effect. The proposed changes don't have any effect on that whatsoever, and thus I don't think it will have any effect on the rates at which the Perk is taken. The SWF that are selective or minimalist about taking it are insignificant and won't show up in Stats or be noticed by Players. The group that might use it less are a specific type of SWF that abused objective tactics. Let's be honest, the word is that there aren't that many of them (although I'm dubious about that notion) so this change should be minimal impact there too.
I completely agree that there will be unintended consequences of the change. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences. I disagree with you that the change will have a greater impact on Solo than SWF in this instance, because Solo never used DS in the same manner as SWF. In fact, Solo have always used it the way the new design encourages, i.e. run away to safety. Unintended consequences are just as likely to be positive as they are to be negative. We just don't know yet. Every doomsayer I've listened to on this topic SAYS there will be toxic side-effects, but they never state WHAT those will be. If it is this clear to you that there is a consequence coming, you should be able to go out on a limb and make more than a vague prediction. If you can't (or won't) then we are really just spitting in the wind. So again, I agree there will be ripple effects in the META, but I also think they could be positive. In fact, I am will to go out on that limb and predict they will be positive. I think DS in some rarified, abusive circles will be taken less. That is a good thing. That Perk slot will be filled with something else, perhaps something that helps them find and cleanse totems. A wider variety of Perk selection across all levels of play means a more diverse game. That is a good thing.
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It happens to me quite often that I catch someone at a gen, and then I get DS... I wasn't tunneling that person, they were using DS offensively. So I am happy for the nerf.
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Yea no,That might be how you used it but with how everyone else using it, it isn't a Anti Tunnel Perk as it is right now it's more throw yourself at the killer to provide time perks at most ranks when I see it or just a free pass for gen rushing or safely Doing anything, the change is good so people can't just no brain with it and need to choose between looping to buy time or losing the perk altogether now by completing objectives
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Yes, this is true, but unlike some people, my brain isn't able to track hooks, gens, Perk timers AND DS all at the same time.
I run Dying Light in a lot of my builds, so those first 5 hooks mean everything.
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