If this game's so easy then why does it take hundreds of hours for everyone to get competent ?

This game is easy... compared to most other popular games.

Not to be a braggart but I'd say I'm pretty much the same skill level as all those streamers who play killer for a living, but I can play Rainbow Six or CS:GO for hundreds of hours and still get steamrolled every other match.

Because there is no tutorial. People play this game for a few hundred times crouching around everywhere cause they don't know any better, of course those people won't know how to loop.

Otz was in the Hexy tournament, and has been in several before IIRC. Whether or not those tourney Survivors are "the best of the best" is entirely beyond me (how would you even quantify that?). I honestly don't know if that even means anything, but it's more than many other streamers.

You're mixing up skill in terms of mechanics and game knowledge. DBD doesn't take much skill in terms of mechanics. You don't need much precision movements, fast reflexes or complex controls for DBD. Even nurse isn't too difficult when you think about it. The worst part is that her difficulty is inflated by poor controls, feed back and bugs.

"I think you misunderstanding my intention of this interaction. I don't care to convince you, especially considering the previous contents of your posts in this thread. You showcased several misconceptions and some flat out lies trying to talk about how the game is like this and that and it turns out to be dubious assumptions or simply not true to fit your own confirmation bias. I'm merely illustrating your train of thought for saying the game doesn't require skill isn't really as sound as you want to market it to be."

"Your claim that you're on par with streamers with over 4000 hours is still yet to be verified and at this point doubtful considering the other claims you've made about the game that turned out to not actually be true."

"4king and escaping in this game isn't reflective of one's skill. Veterans will tell you that. Everyone else in this community will tell you that."

So would you care to explain to me how my argument is founded on less stable ground than yours or are you just going to hurl insults at me? Where are your hard facts and statistics? Are we not both just presenting our opinions here?

"Hours are not the end all be all of defining skill, but it's a general correlation, much as is rank. People often say rank means nothing, but yet complain about mismatched matchmaking. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully MMR fixes that, but the mixmatched match making doesn't negate anything about how it takes skill to play this game, and the general pattern that it takes people hundreds of hours to even begin being competent."

"But I will repeat myself again: winning isn't the definition of skill in this game. There are tonnes of games out there where skill isn't defined by winning or completing the game and DBD is one of them"

I'd prefer if you kept the discussion civil but it seems as though all you want to do now is patronize me. Do you, by any chance have proof that hours and rank are "general correlations" to skill? If anything I'm the only one to have any sort of evidence with those screenshots but sure, call my claims "dubious" and say I'm lying without anything to back those claims up.

You're using the definition incorrectly. That's a definition of a skill, not whether or not something requires skill. It would be like arguing unskilled labour and skilled labor are the same thing because technically everything is a skill so there's no such thing as unskilled labour. Conflating the two means we're talking about 2 separate things.

This is simple. This game does take skill, but the bar to be good is very low compared to other games that take more to master- like Quake, Starcraft, or Street Fighter. It's not even close.

I know people like to talk about game sense, awareness, prediction.. all the stuff that you need in other competitive games, but there's so many visual and audio cues, and random variables, that it takes away from the difficulty of the game. If you want to talk about balance, that's something else, but this game is easy to learn. May take some people time to be real good at it, but that's not hard to do either.

Now there is something to be said about just bad gamers in general. This game attracts a LOT of casual types and some of those don't want to or CAN'T get better, so take that for what it's worth.

And---I know Tru3 is a competitive gamer at heart and I'm sure when he says what he does, it's coming from that viewpoint (and again, balance issues aside).

Button mashing? Heheh. Ok, I see where you're coming from.

The skill learning curve aint that bad, some killer aside, other than that, it mostly knowledge about looping and chase.

Take a M1 killer and perkless survivor for example. Once you learn the easy skillcheck, the game just about pressing M1 near gens then gate, what hard is looping killer and that just knowledge, you can't do some hyper-cool skill trick to get speed, you just need to mindgame each other

There is hard and there is time consuming, they usually hold hands but not always, plucking an entire field one grass at a time is not that hard but it will take you months.

DBD once you realize certain things like how to run the tiles and how to exploit somebody else mistakes its not THAT hard but taking notice of that by yourself can take time, especially if you face bad players who wont exploit your mistakes so you cant learn from them.

Basically he has a massive base kit with no drawbacks, has one of the best stealths in the game, he can slow Survivors like Clown but doesnt need to recharge, can close loops with traps like Hag and Trapper but doesnt stop to set them and cant be deactivated, can traverse the map in seconds like Hillbilly and Blight but doesnt get stunned and the CD is very short, has a passive inbuilt slowdown like Jigsaw, less lethal but way more time consuming and not RNG based (the clock will be ALWAYS be the one further away), no TR if awake, short stature makes it harder to locate him, he is 115% etc.

Long story short, he does what the rest do (sometimes even better) with no drawbacks at all, imagine Clown could teleport, no need to recharge bottles, stealth outside of his TR and a mechanic that forces you to go to the ends of the world to get rid of it, thats almost like Freddy.

P.D. Wraith stealth got buffed recently and now its better but until those 2 buffs Freddy stealth was superior than his and that was his only power so go figure, you couldnt see Freddy outside of 32 yards while Wraith glimmered and being so short it was hard to see him anyway inside that radius unless he was in a open yard, even when asleep.

Both examples will be completely obliterated by people who know what they are doing. Against casual players it is enough but to say its all you need is just dishonest.

The game is mechanically very easy but to be constantly winning you need experience and gamesense.

I started the game in August. Let me tell you, it's a steep learning curve. That "tutorial" goes over the basics and buttons, but hardly goes over the meat & bones of the game. I remember other games have more advanced tutorials (think complex fighting combos, guard techniques, etc.).

I wish tutorial let you play with base perks to understand game more or popular perk combos with no dlc. Or even a perk build of the week would be interesting.

Game would seem easy to pick up (by rough design sure where you chase/hit or watch screen for skill checks, but in reality we know it's different), but its one of those games where you pick up more as you learn (how to loop, mind games, great/bad perk builds, etc.)

I learned most of what I know from streamers (OhTofu and gamrplay reviews, no perk builds, were so helpful). I was a rank 14 before rank reset, so I'm definitely getting there lol

And that's my point. You can't match unskilled labour and skilled labor together just because they both use the word skill in the same vein you can't say the definition of a skill describes what counts as a skill means that everyone is wrong when they say the game doesn't take skill. You're combining colloquial meaning of skill with a dictionary version just describing what is a skill. If all you're going to say is that anything counts as a skill by definition, therefore dbd takes skill than we've hit an impasse. Walking counts as a skill. Therefore, going down the street takes skill. Excellent.

And that's where you're wrong. Colloquially, we're clearly not talking about the same thing. You're saying by definition, technically everything is a skill, therefore dbd takes skill. In the same vein that counting to ten is a skill therefore counting technically takes skill. Meanwhile, people are saying that in terms of skills, whatever unclear metrics that they're judging, dbd is not skillful.

Your only merit so far is that your right that it is a subjective opinion as to what counts as skill. A 1 year old counting to 10 is skillful to me but a 30 year old isn't but that's based on my own selected criteria. In my eyes, dbd when compared to everything I've played and experienced is not a skillful game. However, saying that your criteria for skillful play is objective is also incorrect. It's not objective either, since you've subjectively chosen your own criteria on what counts as skill.