When do you camp or tunnel?

I only full on camp if its egc, same with tunneling.

I may camp someone for 10 seconds if they're about to die or if they're about to go to stage two.

Otherwise, I don't do it as I never see the need.

Only ever camped when it's EGC and I haven't got a kill. Otherwise I actively try to get as many hooks as possible, which means letting survivors get a save.

Tunnelling is often a matter of perspective. If you're the only survivor I noticed, or can find after a cursory search, it doesn't really matter if I hooked you last, I don't have a much better option.

If you got unhooked by a blendette with Iron Will who slunk off immediately, I didn't tunnel, your team mate refused to take aggro.

If I see two survivors and I recognise one of them as having just been unhooked, I'll go for the other one. If you're both injured and playing the same character, and I didn't take note of the name, it's 50/50.

That said, Camping can also be a matter of perspective. If I'm leaving a hooked survivor and someone else charges at me, I'm gonna chase. Their fault if they decide to loop around the hook.

My policy is if I think I have 'two survivors on the same hook' (I see scratch marks, someone followed me, I see them physically there and they are hiding like I don't despite clearly looking at them... ect) I will play defensively and try to immediately snowball an extra hook off it, and if I have 'three survivors on the same hook' I out and out camp.

This is because of the math of gens.

1 survivor on the hook with 3 repairing means they do 4.5 gens, not counting skill checks, and I just would lose.

2 survivors 'on the same hook' means 3 gens are done by the end of that hook state. Still... really not great because even if I immediately hook that second survivor without a chase that is the game. So I will EXPLOIT the fact that second survivor is stupid, and do something like let them unhook and down them before chasing the first. This is how killers start snowballing: The first survivor is hurt and running and easy to take out. The second is on a hook and thus needs a THIRD to come rescue them, which means if I am good enough I may win the game just then and there, and if not I still only got one person on a gen at the time which is what the killer NEEDS in order to win, as I drop below '1 gen per-minute' and thus can actually like... try to win the game.

If 3 survivors are on the hook... well... the lone survivor gets 1.5 gens done while the other two watch the guy die on the hook. Then convert into a chase, another 1.5 gens get done (if that) and its a 2v1 at 2 gens left. Killers win those.

Also if the survivors are extra saucy or are giving me 'SWF' vibes, and I sense them being radically over-altruistic to the point they will come to me if they think I am camping, I will camp. This is a very weird behavior, but a highly exploitable one: some teams will stick to gens if they know a lone person can do an easy rescue but will rush all 3 free survivors on over to the hook if they see I am camping and maybe give the survivor a lil lovetap. It is... EXTREMELY stupid to do this because it literally removes all the downsides of camping, but some people just get so outrageously offended that your camping they can't help themselves.

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At no point does the emotions of the person on the hook come into my consideration. Why? Because I am a person too damnit. This isn't a 'Oh one person isn't having fun how dare you?' situation. It is a 'Are you willing to throw the game and thus your enjoyment of the game in order to let this person pretend to play DBD more but in reality they aren't because you aren't even really trying?' consideration.

The person who got hooked earned the hook. If someone sandbagged them very clearly I will try to get the sandbagger, but at the end of the day I am not trading the game for someone's feelings, especially because that feeds into the negative behavior that is causing me this dillema in the first place. Pretending I have an obligation to the hooked survivor doesn't 'solve' the problem of other people forcing me to camp to win because if I just give up the unhook I lose at the ranks I play at, it makes it worse because now survivors EXPECT the instant unhook. It behooves me, and future early hooked survivors, to 'train' survivors to not do this and punish them as HARD AS POSSIBLE for trying this nonsense.

Because that camp math? Of how many survivors are/aren't doing gens? It applies to chases too. If I just 'give up' the benefit of the hook (And its an INTENDED benefit, I will get into that), I need to do a chase that will last at least 1 minute. 2 If the survivor just holds W. And, oh look, that is exactly how long it takes for a survivor to lose a hook state camped. Except mid chase I can only pressure one survivor. So I am losing 4.5 gens a second if I try to win individual chases, one after another, without ever pressuring more than one survivor at a time (which REQUIRES defensive play to do), or eliminating a survivor.

This is why the hooks exist, and the devs said they aren't going to nerf camping more. "Camping" is just defensive killer play, securing their objectives. Its an INTENTIONAL FUNCTION of the game, and in the beta dev diaries they talk about how unhooking is low key meant to not be a very good idea and to be something very reckless and selfless. Obviously, the game evolves. This makes less sense now that gen speeds are reduced, now that its harder to ditch chases because the absolute difference in speed between you and the killer is higher. Now that moonlight offerings are gone.

But the hooks? They are still hooks. If the killer was never intended to stop you from unhooking, never intended to turn the fact they won a chase into a snowballing advantage... the hooks... wouldn't exist?

They are like... a visual metaphor yeah? They are a hook. Your on the hook for a mistake. A squirming little worm. Bait. The killer is not just ALLOWED to defend you to get more kills, but encouraged to do so based on how many survivors are agressing you. Pretending the killer is oh so unfair and oh so unkind for doing so is a disgusting warping of the entire game of DBD and pretending that the killer is your babysitter rather than opponent, and denies their humanity by demanding they basically LET YOU WIN so you can 'keep playing.'

Imagine that scenario in any other game. "Hey don't just kill me because I peeked a corner in CS:GO without flashing and knew you had an AWP, I want to keep playing and your stopping me from playing meanie." "Hey, why did you kill all my workers in Starcraft despite the fact I was endlessly teching as protos with no defenses and you were zerg? That is mean, I want to keep playing, how rude!" "Way to corner me and then kill me because I refused to block or parry in this fighting game. I want to keep playing!"

You would be laughed out of that community as a a Scrub. Not the 'general insult' sense. The classic sense, as defined in this link: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

A scrub is someone who makes up rules about how a game should be played 'fairly' in defiance of the systems created by the actual design, in order to avoid having to come to terms with the fact they aren't very good. Most communities treat these people like jokes, because its obviously ludicrous to cater to them and pretend they have a point. No, its not fun to get zerg rushed but guess what? If early aggression in Star Craft wasn't allowed the only viable race would be protos for carrier rushes and the game would be FLIPPIN STUPID. Same with DBD: without camping allowed at ALL, without ANY tunneling, without ANY slugging, the killer... just literally lacks the tools to win unless the survivors graciously let them?

Watch Scott. Watch Otz. Watch any streamer with a ton of killer hours. They don't 'policy camp' but they will literally say out loud whenever that an unhook happens why they knew it was coming and why they were ok with it, and they absolutely defend the hook when they know its being assaulted. The best players in the world of DBD camp. You are not 'too good' to camp.

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As for 'what do you do to stop a camper then hmmm?' the answer is 'do gens, silly.'

The camper is only camping for an expected reward, and they generally stop if you like... don't give it to them?

As a survivor, you have the power to rocket that camper up to tan ranks while ensuring your entire squad pips, and ending the game fast so you don't have to play with a dweeb who 'policy camps' for no reason. No, that game isn't great, but it wouldn't be in the first place if the killer did that, so just end the game swiftly, get your bloodpoints fast, and move on to the next lobby.

Same. If's it's in my best interest, it's gonna happen.

When I get hate for winning fairly I'll spend the next bunch of matches with iron grasp, take the first person I down to the basement and I usually get 4k because altruistic survivors who don't know about stbfl, I'll receive more hate but at least that hate will be gained through purposely playing in an annoying way rather than playing how survivors want killer to play and still getting told to kill myself.

If I tunnel it's either accidental (couldn't tell survivors apart due to same character/similar cosmetic situation) or because I just keep finding the same Survivor. (Sorry, if you run into me, I'm going to try to hook you, no matter how long ago we last saw each other)

Camping is only something I bother with at end game if there are more than 2 alive. If it's only 2 I'll hook the one and go find the other, but otherwise with no gens to patrol there is no point in leaving unless I can see another Survivor

I only tunnel and proxycamp only OoO users, they dont want to play game in normal way so im not gonna give them normal game.

Other than that? i dont do it