Nobody else sees this as an issue?
Self explanatory
Comments
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These videos prove almost nothing considering the amount of variables in a match, while Tru3 likes to only look at the worst case scenario, it's almost always least often case as well, while I respect what Tru3 is doing he does completely ignore such variables so that it seems like it's always the worst.
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The survivor isnt dropping any pallets or using windows so I wouldn't really say its a worst case scenario and it counter balances majority of the variables.
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He ignores finding other survivors while in a chase or finding multiple in the same spot, for instance. Not vaild.
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Large maps in general just suck. Why would anyone deliberatly play a game where the interaction with there opponent is non existent because there spending most of the game traversing the map or camping.
I don't care how pretty your map is or how much easter eggs you have keep the size of your maps down not every killer has good map traversal.
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Look, I'm not trying to be an ass but here is a screenshot of every match true had in the same stream where he talks about holding W.
he died every survivor game, and 4K/3K'd every killer game except for a 1k match with wraith
There are way too many variables to be like "holding W is too powerful and it takes too much time" because games very rarely if ever just end up being hold W.
some of the screenshots are just of the entity spikes bc he backs out before the scoreboard a lot when he plays surv.
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Tru3's idea is correct, I know this because I hold W.
With time, I understand that most killer's when they do there secondary action, like deathslinger or billy, take a few seconds to reload. This is enough time to get to a new loop.
Although, I do find it a bit suspicious Tru3 Picked wraith for this Logic. Wraith isn't exactly an "Anti-loop" killer. Maybe make this point when you play a stronger killer.
(Also, Wraith is fast, this "hold W" isn't too bad with Wraith) .
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I think he has a point tho.
Holding forward is very very powerful against M1 Killers and there should be a discussion about it. I think there are more pressing issues, but it IS a valid point.
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He’s spent more time at high level play and it’s fried his brain a little. I just treat him like Grampa War Vet and enjoy his stories.
He’s not wrong though, but again, as you pointed out, he is referring to the doomsday SWF try hard squads and for the average person, that’s not a usual thing.
If I got paid to play DbD and had to play top level on a daily basis, for as long as he has, I’d probably sound worse. I’d be showcasing how survivors can pop gens in 40 seconds and just have a 10 minute video where I show my friend doing two generators lol.
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This has been known for a while but I’m glad he’s refreshing people on it. This is the kind of gameplay I was referring to in my “why doesnt survivor take skill” thread. You can take the killer on a map tour just by holding W and some maps like Mothers dwelling, Midwich, Lerys and Hawkins all offer this as an effective and powerful playstyle. Theres little in there for the killer other than holding W. I also can’t see why people want bloodlust removed when holding W is a thing. Bloodlust takes no skill and needs to go but holding W is perfectly ok?
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Someone once took their time and watched 100 Killergames on Stream of various Content Creators and tru3 had a solid 3K on average for every game.
The big point is, he is always going over matches he lost for minutes, while he brushes matches where he 4Ks off. And most of his 4Ks are also not those where he just slugs everyone, usually everyone in his games get a lot of points, so it is not like he has to sweat in them.
So I would also take videos like this from him with a grain of salt. He often focusses on the worst outcome while ignoring the normal or good outcomes.
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He has around 6000 hours though and plays the game every single day for about 5 hours per day. He hardly represents the average player.
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And? I was not saying that he represents the average Player, but my point stands, he complains too much for the good results he usually gets.
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I'm fairly certain most clearminded people already know how strong holding W is. It's literally advice that other streamers hand out to newer players who struggle to extend chases. It's a problem that literally cannot be solved because of how the game is designed, though Bloodlust doest exist to try and mitigate it.
If you hate it so much, do what I did and pick a mobile killer to main. It's not a great solution, but it's better than playing any m1 killer.
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You have to see the irony in arguing that we should balance around the top players, but then saying that true is above average so we shouldn't take into account what top killers can do, lol.
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He's right about survivors who play very safe and run immediately after noticing you. It's the most efficient playstyle, nothing is more frustrating and time consuming for a killer than not getting into chases because everyone plays extremely safe. Gens will maybe take a bit longer if they run away early but the killer doesn't get progress on his objectives either, so...
The other side, nearly no one is holding W like that, most will stay at the loop or run to the next one and this gives the killer the opportunity to outplay them. Killers biggest advantage is still the lack of knowledge and uncoordinated playstyle of most survivor teams.
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He isn't taking into account pressuring gens or using slowdown perks. He also didn't try to cut them off and had terrible pathing.
Tru3 does not help the game at all.
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It's literally an example of how just a single chase without any other variable ( looping, pallets, speed perks) occupies the (m1 115%) killers time to the benefit of survivor objective. Not even close to a worse case example and that's just a survivor doing the most brain dead tactic beginner AI bots could pull off. Don't need a swf for 4 solos to do gens and run forward.
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He is also ignoring that approaching Survivors from a place where they cant actually locate you until you are closer is a way to shorten this problem, obviusly not all maps have this but being able to remain stealthy even when they hear your terror radius is also a skill, if a Survivor hears it and starts runnning without knowing where you are they risk running towards you half of the time or taking extremely bad paths that can lead to free hits and downs.
Also there is the option to stop a chase on the injured and go towards a gen jockey if you pass nearby, the injured has to relocate to the gen they were working, that takes time, start a new gen or heal, both really reduces the gen rush, knowing when to break chase to apply pressure where is most needed is also a skill.
Im not saying his points are invalid, in certain maps a "survivor just pressing W" can be a real concern but its not THAT strong since what decides most trials is the position of gens number 3º, 4º and to an extent 5º, generators 1º and 2º are really inconsecuential and even if popped very early there is a lot of room to recover unless you let the Survivors clear the easier to defend gens and got yourself anti3genned, for me knowing when to break chase and how to spread pressure during 3º gen is the most crucial point in a match, if you manage to spread a lot of damage and to cut chases by being able to remain undetected while approaching (I mean reamining unseen, not unheard for even in the TR Survivors have to know where you are to decide a escape route) you force them to heal wasting a lot of time or to play extremely defensive since they risk getting snowballed.
His concerns are valid but what he shows is the worst posible scenario and the game is not black and white.
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For someone with 6000 hours in the game, you'd think he'd know the game better than that. Like yeah, just running is sometimes the survivors best option. There are dead zones in the game, and it's up to the killer to try to cut you off. He's literally just taking the same pathing as the survivor, and that's something you shouldn't do as killer. And most of the M1 killers have things to mitigate it. Pig's the only one who doesn't, but she has a slowdown power unlike any other.
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This is only valid against certain killers that don't have any form of a ranged attack or mobility, also this isn't that valid if the survivor is already injured/exposed.
So pig, trapper, doctor, myers (EW3 not ready), freddy, ghostface (if spotted early), Oni (without power), and PH (his power doesn't have enough range and is too slow), plague (at base the survivor is injured and you don't have a chase power).
So if this was used in every chase only 7 killers suffer from this so it's not as big of an issue as true makes it to be. Still against this killers it is very effective and makes them a lot weaker.
This also ignores that they don't go to a loop when the killer is almost too close so PH has a slight advantage over everyone else but for the others this tactic will cost them the game if all survivors use it.
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Depends on the map stuff like autohaven midwich or haddonfield just allow the survivor to hold w because of their design with not much cutoff paths. Not to say this is every map obviously but its some. Lerys comes to mind coldwind and maybe red forest? Literally midwich with OoO means im never probably catching that survivor because theyll just remain on the other side of the map and hold w in the opposite direction im running making it take like 2 minutes to even get in chase range.
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But these games mentioned are tru3 vs mediocre players for a lot of them.
the games where tru3 sweats is the top players vs top players. In those games I’m not sure what his average kill rate would be.
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This issue with "holding w" seems to stem from the fact that m1 killers are extremely underpowered. To fix this it seems like your going to have to buff m1 killers.
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This is also why mobility killers are so good. Most people think it's because they can patrol gens fast but it's mostly because they can negate this.
On the topic of it being an issue. I don't know. Most killers can do something against this. On the top of my head i think only trapper myers bubba and doctor can do nothing against this. You know how long it takes to catch them so you don't have to chase them.
In the video example going to find other survivors after the first hit would have been better.
Killers think way to often they need to chase a survivor from healthy to downed. If you get a hit and you're not a mobility killer find someone else and leave them for later instead of chasing a survivor that just sprintbursted away while you stood still wiping your weapon
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so when Tru3 is losing, it's op survivors, when he's winning it's bad players? and you have proof of this?
I wish I moved the goalpost as much as this forum does when it comes to this.
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So what now you guys want to nerf running? This is getting ridiculous I'm just waiting for someone to suggest we start the trial with someone on the hook, Also he's telling the survivor what to do , there is no normal gameplay happening here he tells them to go to the edge of the map and hold w from a pretty far distance and of course if he makes up the situation to cater to his talking point it's gonna work.
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I said games where he has to sweat.
If you look at games where he gets the 4k without breaking a sweat you can see the survivors aren’t top tier just based on the way they move and the decisions they make.
Remember we were talking about balancing around the top survivors.
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Your list is not exactly accurate in my opinion. Pig can mitigate the first half of that with Crouch and line of sight blockers. Myers can as well with being undetectable in Tier 1 and only a 16m terror radius in Tier 2 which can be pushed lower with perks and addons; the 2nd half of the chase he can mitigate because nobody runs away in a straight line vs Myers cause that's a good way to feed him Stalk. Freddy is invisible to awake Survivors past 32m and inconsistently visible outside 16m so that could end up making it not work and I've had Freddy teleport to a gen in front of me when I've tried to hold W on him.
In addition to that, every killer has Perk options to help with either side of it. M&A, Trail of Torment, Tinkerer, and Dark Devotion for the first half. Save the Best for Last and maybe Play With Your Food for the second half.
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ok but can you tell me every killer you listed will close the distance each time?
no if they are spotted early they can be ran and 16m is a good distance to do that against freddy/myers
also im not taking perks into consideration
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Its okay cause killers have Lag and Desync on their side to help them win.
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Its an issue on maps where you can't cut off the survivor. (Haddonfield)
A survivor can waste more time running pallet to pallet with no looping.
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I think the fact that mother's dwelling being a big map makes it look like a bigger problem than it is. Holding w can be strong, but the sheer size of the map makes it so you can't cut paths or break chase to go for someone else without losing a bit of time over it.
If anything, I feel this shows that maps should follow some size standard, but nothing specific about survivors themselves.
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This is what happens when half of the killers have something that make alot loops useless, as well as all those unsafe pallets that litterly help the killer more instead of helping the survivor. over time survivors got nerfed so hard that holding m1 is the better option these days to stay alive for longer. The people that have an issue with survivors holding m1 are only m1 killers without a power to shut down a loop. and for some reason those killers that didnt get a 4k for 1 game also cry about it...
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So this is the new thing, huh?
Ds
Unbreakable
Object of Obsession
Running in a straight line
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That's all they need to do to fix it mostly. Stop making country sized maps (mothers dwelling), stop making maps that kind of force survivors into holding W (lerys, midwich).
A lot of survivors won't play this way as often on the other maps.
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I feel his point is valid, but the method of showing it is misleading to show hold w as more powerful than it is.
1) when survivors hold w, even on big maps, they'll have to turn 90° eventually. Cutting off the corner of that turn will cut off a lot of chase time
2) powers: many killers have movement powers, even the wraith with his new increase in cloaked movement speed. You got bubba, wraith, spirit, oni (sometimes), Freddy, nurse, billy, legion, blight, demo and even clown that can boost movement speeds. Then you have killers with a range to their attack, like Huntress, deathslinger, pyramid head, demo, plague and trickster who can injure survivors from an extended range. This means a majority of killers have powers to assist against "hold w"
3) Perks: killers also have perks that let them speed up these chases, like STBFL, PWYF, coupe de grace, and devour hope.
4) they will try to loop: when you close the distance enough, most of them will try to loop or at least start vaulting and dropping pallets. If they do these things too early and it doesn't actually interrupt your patching much, survivors slow themselves down with the animations. Plus you have red light mind games to get them to make a mistake
All in all, i do think that gens could go a bit slower, bit the real issue is that solo queue needs current gen speeds to stand a chance, but a coordinated SWF will use their time more optimally and have a bunch of gens done. The only real balance issue in this game is the HUGE skill/difficulty gap between solo and SWF
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Hes literally just showcasing how easy and mindless survivor is. You have a team of 4 survivors who are decent and know that all you have to do is SB away from the gens being worked on and occupy the killer for x amount of seconds. If every survivor held W on comms tell me how it would go.
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That's a bad way of showing it, because of course you're going to have an easy time against a wraith that -doesn't use his ability at all-. He gets a hefty movespeed boost when in cloak and a heftier one when he comes out of it. That should help deal with 'Hold W' strats.
If you play like an idiot, your opponent is going to have an 'easy and mindless' time. That is what he showcased here.
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