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Gen Rush Penalties?
Should there be a system in place for gen rushing to be punished slightly? Like it’s already insane how quick gens go and I know there are perks that can slow them down somewhat but still. Just had a match with a SWF team who just huddled together and was able to do 3 gens before I could even do anything. If they were that desperate to leave the match and not interact with me then go on. Get out of my game.
Honestly I’m not sure what can be done about the gen rushing. Perks help but not much. I was thinking that the game should penalize at least 3 survivors working on a gen together. Perhaps making the entity stop them and wait a bit then let them go back to doing the gen unless it’s still 3 people working on it. Not sure about that but I’m open to options. Even just one survivor working on a gen goes insanely fast.
Comments
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There needs to be some type of mechanic that prevents generators from flying too quickly at the start of the game. I can be running Corrupt Intervention, but even with that, it's very difficult to pressure four very good survivors with someone who isn't Nurse/Spirit and it's common for 1-2 gens to be done before a hook is even achieved.
I'd argue making Corrupt base kit, or add the ''trial warm up'' idea suggested by ScottJund, where generator repair speeds are heavily reduced until the first chase begins, so survivors don't complete 1-2 gens before the killer even has a chance to apply pressure, especially on maps like Mother's Dwerling where you can't even reach a generator on the other side of the map before it is done. To stop killers abusing this by being AFK, perhaps make it last only a minute and have the generator repair speed be 50% slower or something.
Sure, it's pretty boring for the survivors, but games go by FAR too fast because of the early game getting rid of 1-2 gens before the killer can even apply pressure.
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That is interesting. I still say though there needs to be a way to stop survivors grouping up on one gen. I’m fine with two survivors on one but when you get 3 or more it’s just ridiculous
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3 survivors working on a gen together is anything but gen rush.
That's not how you gen rush at all. It's super easy to counter. Just go to the gen and watch them all split up and waste time.
Gen rush is when the 3 survivor are each on their own gen (with toolbox it's even better). And that usually means you chased someone without downing them for too much time and you need to learn to cut your loss and focus an easier target.
What you are describing is just survivor doing their objective not efficiently.
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Funnily enough you want the survivors to group on a generator because it allows the killer to apply pressure much more easier by slugging and chasing a nearby survivor.
Survivors who never group up and split up are almost impossible to win against because you can't slug which means you can't snowball or apply effective pressure, so the generators will just get done.
Survivors should just always spawn together as well, maybe with an indication of which direction they're in, so the killer isn't doing a 50/50 on most maps of where they are.
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What happened was three survivors were working on a gen across the map, where there were gen after gen close together. One popped before I got over there. Saw one person run away. Starts stalking. Another gen popped then another. The 3 of them just went from gen to gen and got it done super quick. I know that’s not technically a gen rush but with how quick it happened it sure felt like it.
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Isn’t that usually a mistake for survivors to do? Lumping all of the repaired gens that close together just makes the rest of the map easier to patrol. It’s a tactical error that can be exploited by a good killer.
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Honestly though if I haven’t even gotten a hit much less a hook before three gens pop it just demotivates me to continue. Not to mention the other three will just complete the other gens by the time I down someone else
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Camp or tunnel penalties?
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Yeah it’s called losing the match by focusing entirely on one person. It’s incredibly easy to win as survivor. Also why is it that anytime someone brings up an issue people like you come in and bring up a completely different topic? What-about-isms is really annoying. Can we perhaps discuss what the actual thread is about?
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Last night I had a match vs Demo in Lery. I know I spawn alone, I do Gen and miss skill check on purpose then hide. Demo searched really hard in my area. By the time he leaves, 2 Gen done.
Poor guy, someone has their 1st hook at 3 Gen done, he didnt even make the first chase.
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Scott Jund had a interesting I dea, I would suggest something simiular like his idea but changed abit. At the start of the match all gens are blocked by the entity. The survivors have to find 3 entity shrines and interact with it for a short time (3 sec). After the 3th shrine has been activated the gens are free and survivors can start working on it.
This encourages the survivors to start going around the map and increase the chances to interact with the Killer.
In the other side it is positive for the survivors because they go around the map and can see where and how many pallets there are around the map.
Edit: I dont think a punishment for doing your job too good is a good idea, that is just frustrating and not fun. Thats why I suggest a second objective before the gen so the core gameplay (gens) stay as the same.
Post edited by BenZ0 on5 -
I actually find it easier to win as killer than as survivor, if I’m defining my win as killer as 3+ kills and my win as survivor escaping (I play solo).
There are definitely some well coordinated teams out their that make gens fly but I don’t run into them nearly as much as I do uncoordinated solo groups. Good match making might change that. Also, continually playing, learning when it’s best to drop a chase to defend a gen, where survivors spawn, and best perks to to work with your play style all help too. How many hours do you have? Not trying to insult, just wondering why our experiences seem so different. I’m around 1500 hours.
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Generators cannot be repaired unless you are under the effect of the ‘Repairer’ buff.
Methods to obtain the ‘Repairer’ buff:
Find a Wrench: 8 Wrenches can spawn on a map, typically within 32 meters of a generator and not near to the killer spawn point, they appear on the ground with yellow auras when within 12 meters. Interacting with a Wrench takes 3 seconds and bestows you with the effect of ‘Repairer’ for the duration of the match and makes you blind to all other Wrenches while active. Killers are unable to perceive Wrenches at all.
Equip a suitable Toolbox: Purple (Very Rare) Toolboxes automatically include a Wrench, carrying a purple Toolbox grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’ for as long as that Toolbox has a charge.
Equip a Toolbox with a Broken Wrench or Rusty Wrench Add-on:
Broken Wrench: (Uncommon) Grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’ for as long as your Toolbox has a charge. Slightly reduces repair speed. “Even a broken tool can be used for something.”
Rusty Wrench: (Rare) Grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’ for as long as your Toolbox has a charge. Slightly increases repair speed. “It might not be clean but it’s better than nothing.”
Use a map that has the ability to track Wrenches.
Use a relevant perk:
Metal Detector: For 20/25/30 seconds at the start of the match and after a generator is completed, you are able to see the aura of Generators and Wrenches from 18/24/32 meters away, even when under the effect of ‘Repairer’. You are able to see Bear Traps with a faint red aura within 5 meters. (generic or teachable?)
Technical Experience: Grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’ as long as you have at least 1 token. This perk starts with 1/2/3 tokens. Consume a token whenever a generator is completed or you fail a skill check. Gain a token whenever you make a great skill check. Great skill checks increase progression by an additional 1% per token, up to a maximum of 2/3/4%. (new generic perk)
Thrifty Mechanic: Breaking a Totem grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’ for 80/100/120 seconds and increases your repair speed by 4/6/8%. “Anything can be used as a tool if you use your imagination.” (new teachable perk)
Technician (rework): Gains the effect of “Grants you the effect of ‘Repairer’.” On a failed repair skill check, gains the effect of “You lose the effect of ‘Repairer’ for 6/5/4 seconds.” and loses the effect of “An additional Regression penalty of 5/4/3 % is applied.”
Killer counter perks:
Covert Disarmament: Survivors who are unhooked at least 32/28/24 meters away lose the effect of ‘Repairer’ unless granted by an item or a perk. If ‘Repairer’ is granted by and item or perk, they are unable to interact with a generator for 20/25/30 seconds. Can only be applied once per game, per survivor.
Disabling Shroud: Survivors within your terror radius are unable to perceive Wrenches on the map. Survivors within your terror radius under the ‘Repairer’ effect receive more skill checks with additional 5/10/15% penalty for failure.
Benefits:
- Provides a new early-game objective that can take anything between 5 (if lucky spawn) and ~60 seconds before you’re able to start repairing generators, on a per-survivor basis, likely an average of about 30 seconds. This slows down the early game gen rush.
- Provides incentive to run toolboxes outside of gen rush and sabotage, and encourages healthier use of those toolboxes (you don’t want to deplete them instantly).
- Provides a new avenue for gen defence (killer perks) and diluting the survivors perk pool (Repairer effect perks).
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That’s not a bad suggestion honestly
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Gen rushing does hurt survivors. Too quick of a match and they don't get points in the other categories. Run NOED and odds are they didn't do totems so they rush gens only to get killed at end.
That said I do think it'd be interesting to do some changes to gen repair. Like if you are looking at the gen it's normal speed because you are looking at what you're doing, the more you look away though the slower the repair is. So do you watch behind you for killer and slow down progress or do you face gen and risk getting snuck up on.
Another would be a different use for flashlights, have them be used to shine light on gen while another player repairs. If in dark gen progress is a little slower, if lit up by flashlight the progress speeds up because you can see what you're doing. This would take a survivor off gens and keep survivors together to be more efficient which also helps killers find more survivors at once. Would also make survivors choose between blinding killer or helping team progress gens.
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Id' beg to differ. Generator speeds are very much hit or miss, depending on a litany of factors.
If you can get survivors down quickly, meaning you're good at chasing and looping, you force survivors to be altruistic and take away from the generator progress. If you have ruin, all the better. The worst thing a killer can do is idle around, searching for a target. You always want to be pressuring survivors. When I play badly because I get outplayed, generator speeds feel fast because survivors are being efficient. It's literally their job to do generators, and that's not something to get mad about.
Meanwhile, if I keep up maximum pressure, or on the rare occasions I play survivor and the killer is very good at getting downs left right and center, gen speeds are an absolute crawl. Even with prove thyself, which I regularly run, that little 15% penalty removal is nothing.
So the takeaway is 1) run corrupt intervention, it's a lifesaver and 2) git gud, but not in a snarky condescending way. Getting better at chases and sniffing out immersed survivors is the #1 job of killers. Don't be afraid to play tactically, either. Knowing that somebody is dead on hook and going for them when you desperately need someone out of the game is not tunneling.
That being said, I really do think there should be more gen regression perks that don't require you to actually kick gens; plus, breaking gens is pretty useless most of the time. The regression rate is a snail's pace and can be stopped by just tapping it. Perhaps one that blocks off all generators or makes generators start regressing for 30 seconds, regardless of if they tap it or not, after you hook a survivor, or even just takes away x% of every generator's progress. Ruin and Pop are great, but they get old and stale very quickly. I started running surge just because my ruin totem literally always spawns in a survivor's hands and I'm too lazy to kick generators.
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Dude is there any way you could upload footage of one of your games on here?
You have posted quite a bit about how you can't even catch a single survivor before 3 gens pop, quite consistently. There must be some serious gaps in your playstyle for that to be true, as there just aren't that many good survivors who consistently do that to killers.
That almost never happens to me, and I main doctor (rank 1) and use 0 gen defense / slowdown perks. And I wouldn't even class myself as a really good killer, merely competent.
Instead of starting a bunch of threads about how the game needs to change to suit you, maybe you should think about changing your play to suit the game?
Just a thought.
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Also, the "warmup" start to the trial is a great idea btw. Would definitely help low mobility killers to not have to sweat so much.
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Here’s one of them. I admit I spent too much time trying to find the downed survivor but she hid in the tall grass and they move so quick downed. Besides that’s it’s red forest. So huge map.
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Most of your mistake look like lack of experience i don't have much to say other than play more.
You should use your power more often. You are probably scared to lose even more time by missing. But if you want to play deathslinger you need to get good at shooting. Otherwise there's no point might as well play wraith. Playing like a m1 killer when you are 110% movement speed on a big map won't work. Next is your tracking you shouldn't lose the survivor so much. Also try to not camp the basement when the gen is already completed. If you can, choose a hook near uncompleted gen, that way you can protect the gens and protect the hook.
At the start of the game you select 3 gen close to each other and you try your best to protect them. That way you can patrol them. If you let survivor select which gen they want you will always end up in a situation where you have gen at the opposite of the map. Which is deadly on a big map. So yeah you need to prioritize some generator.
I don't play much deathslinger but i go against him alot. So i know what they are capable. He can be very strong. If he's good with his gun.
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The Devs have briefly mentioned something about an Early Game collapse feature. While they haven't told us anything about it or it's progress, this tells me they are aware of how fast the early game goes by and are doing something to address it. I'm hoping for some news on it during the 5th year anniversary stream, which should be this summer.
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Unless you have good addons missing a shot with him is a big time waster. Especially with reloading and etc. I would prefer to time my aims perfect so I don’t miss shots
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can we punish killers for hooking a survivor within the first 20 seconds of a game?
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Ah yes the whataboutisms. There always one of you in every thread
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So is not being good at blinking with nurse. You still need to do it alot to learn to be a good nurse.
You are rank 14. Learn survivor gimmicks so you can always hit your shot instead of being scared and using deathslinger as a m1 killer.
His ability is the one thing that make him unloopable. If you don't use it then choose another killer.
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that's not really whataboutism
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What about punishing Killers for doing so well, and hooking survivors so quickly that everyone dies on their first hook? Oh yeah we already do that!
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It is . You’re bringing up a separate topic in a discussion about something else entirely. Your statement was basically “ but what about killers hooking survivors 20 seconds into the game!” That’s a whataboutism
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i'm not being serious, i'm just trying to show you how you sound.
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Sure buddy. Whatever you say
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So you would say it annoys you when people bring up moris in key talks and vice-versa?
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It is much more common for killers to put everyone on their bellies before even the 1st gen is done. Killers already have a lot of advantage with perks like Corrupted Intervention, Whispers for finding the first gen being worked on, and discordance. Then BBQ finds the next one instantly. Killers have it in their advantage too much already.
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OP played poorly that match and only killed the Claudette because he proxy camped and tunneled her to death. Rather than look simply at gens as the problem, your playstyle is also at fault and you should strive to improve.
In the video you're clearly not doing very well at chasing or attempting to defend your generators which is why they're also going so quickly. Beyond that, Corrupt Intervention and Monitor and Abuse is going to help you out far more than Franklin's or Gearhead.
I would suggest switching up a lot of your perks if you want to do better on Deathslinger and consider utilizing your gun to end chases more quickly than a simple M1.
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Dude it’s red forest. You can’t patrol in red forest. And I don’t have any of those perks. Beyond that it’s insanely easy to avoid the gun. I find it funny cause hatchets have a basketball range while it seems if you’re not 100% accurate with the gun you lose
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Cheers for posting your game.
Pro's: You got your first 2 downs pretty quickly, before any gens had popped. You also managed a 2k with one of the slowest killers on one of the largest maps in the game.
Cons: You almost never used your power. Your power is the single most important aspect of your game as a killer. If you use it improperly, or don't use it, you can expect to struggle. Particularly with Deathslinger as he only moves 10% faster than survivors. You will always be on the backhand if you don't utilise his power.
When you had the survivor hooked in the basement, you probably should have been checking on some of the gens, instead of hanging around the main building.
You admittedly spent way too much time trying to find the downed survivor. To be fair, you probably wouldn't have reached the gen that popped as it was all the way across the map. Don't be afraid of leaving a survivor slugged. It creates pressure by forcing another survivor off a gen to come and rescue (or uses up an unbreakable).
Speaking of pop, you should certainly invest in better perks. All 4 of the perks you had were pretty much useless, and did nothing to further your objective. In my opinion, you should definitely consider getting the following couple of killers to unlock some really useful perks:
- Legion - Discordance - Will let you know when 2 survivors are working on a gen together via audio cue and highlighting the gen - Great for finding out where to go early game, and also helps in later game stages when survivors will usually double up on gens.
- Doctor - Monitor & Abuse - Drops your terror radius when not in chase , and increases it when in chase - Will help you get closer to survivors before they start to run to pallets.
- Plague - Corrupt Intervention - Blocks the 3 furthest gens for 120 seconds at the start of the trial - Makes the survivors come closer to you to do gens. Gives you plenty of time to wreak some havoc!
You already have Nurse. Unlock A Nurse's Calling , as it will let you see when Survivors are healing. You can get close for an easy down.
Get closer to the survivors before lunging. You had quite a few missed hits, which if they landed, could have changed the game for you.
I hope some of this advice helps.
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Are you sure that's what was happening? Maybe 2 on a gen (one with prove thyself) and 2 on 2 gens and you started chasing one of the 2 on the first gen.
A second survivor on a gen doesn't double the speed (nearly with prove thyself), and a third person barely speeds it up at all. When gens pop early and rapidly it's usually people spread out to solo gens.
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Hah! As always you're silly.
Either you are a hell of a troll, or have never played killer. All your comments are from some some distant reverse reality.
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Hate to see. Plus, the comparison isn't even valid. Killers require (according to the game) 12 hooks, if you don't plan to camp, and there's only one killer to do that job.
Survivors require 5 generators, and there's 4 of them to do that job.
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It looks like somebody is getting high skill opponents and can't defend properly.
MMR system will solve your problem.
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Yea what a great idea a warm up where you can't have gens progressing at the start. Let's do the same for killer where if they find you in the first 30 seconds of a game you get tickled instead of hit 🤣
Both things are annoying (gens popping fast and killers getting early downs) but that's the way the game goes sometimes. It's RNG and asymmetrical.
Doing gens is the only way to get pressure on a killer so of course survivors are going to rush the first 2-3 if they can.
Killers need to injure, down or hook survivors for the same reason, you can blame either for trying to get on with it asap!
And totally agree with the guy who said 3 survivors on a gen is not efficient - especially if you can chase them off, that leaves maybe 1 survivor doing a gen and 3 doing nothing.
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Early downs mean nothing. Gens popping is a n objective. Downing a survivor is not even 1/4 of the killers objective. It takes 3 hooks to kill one survivor. Early downs mean nothing if you fly through gens before he even hooks that survivor.
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What do you want the survivors to do? Stand and do nothing while you chase 1 person?
That's a new one. An early down/hook means nothing 🤣 I implore you to not bother going for one then!
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You are equating gen completing to downing a survivor. Not even hooking a survivor. It’s not the same. You need to only complete 5 gens and open exit gate and your home. Killers need to hit survivors twice, hook them, and rinse and repeat three times on each survivor till they die. It’s not a fair comparison
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So you need to interact with all three shrines to unlock the gens?
what’s stopping the killer from camping one of those shrines and holding the game hostage?
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Maybe it can unlock a random gen for each shrine you destroy? I’m not sure
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Sluzzy, I hope you know everyone has stopped listening to you now, 😂😂
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lol I’m betting she has never played Killer, not even once.
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Ugh this mindset really pisses me off.
I know killer can be hard, but "get out of MY game" of all the selfish, arrogant things to say. Yes, how DARE they do their one primary objective because nothing is interrupting or stopping them from doing so.
This game has some issues, sure, but really one sided, extremely off the mark comments like this are what get everything lumped together.
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Punish survivors for doing their only objective too much?
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I would like to clarify something; I know nothing about game balance. I've never programmed a day in my life, and do not understand the intricacies of the balancing of asymmetrical multiplayer games. I have very little experience with Dead by Daylight, and have little to no experience gen-rushing or being gen-rushed. With that being said, this is the greatest thing I have ever seen, without a doubt in my mind, and if this is not implemented into the game I'm gonna commit sudoku.
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