Quit complaining about camping and tunneling if
You pop 3 gens within the first 2 min of the game. If the devs wont balance the game properly then the killers have to salvage the match after survivors do this. These are tactics to spread pressure and force survivors to come to them and get off of the objective. It might suck from the survivors point of view but at that point blame balancing.
The real fix for this is to make it so that survivor objective cant be done so quick, or give killers better resources to combat the quick gen times. I'm not talking about perks. After the game is balanced then we can talk about punishing killers for bad behavior like camping and tunneling. Until then stop complaining
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If we're not fixing gents, we're dead.
This is the only reason I'm rushing to escape.
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Sadly, those that complain about camping and tunneling aren't the ones popping 3 gens in 2 minutes.
Those guys are the ones that get out most games . And don't give a ######### about camping and tunneling.
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Well I dont try to camp or tunnel but I agree that gens can be done easily by good survivors. If I see a lobby that brings 2-3 toolboxes then I will be toxic as hell or dodge lobby. There should be another mechanic about gens. For the beginner level survs that is fine but as you get experienced and knew the map it is harder to pressure. Especially some maps are really large. I think that maps should be smaller and it will solve most of the problems.
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no i get it. The gens popping so fast is not the survivor players fault, thats the fault of the devs unable to balance the game. So killers counter it with dirty tactics. which no one wants in the game. My issue is that survivors pop gens like that and expect the killers to play nice
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if you don't pop a certain number of gens in a reasonable amount of time, its even harder to punish campers.
So, no. your logic is completely and utterly flawed.
Slowing gen times only buffs camping.
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how is my logic flawed? did you even read the whole post? I stated that those are the tools that the killer uses to combat gen rushing. Not that anyone wants killers to do that. Good killers included. I said at the end that after they balance the game they should find ways to punish tunneling and camping as they wont be needed if the game is balanced.
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also slowing gen times is just a number of options put forth by the community. There are many ways to fix this. I play both sides i also dont want to hold m1 for any longer then what is already required
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You need to stop caring what people say and just play your game man.
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Said it before, saying it again:
The best solution to things would be dynamic maps. The game does have the mechanics to allow for it, but the game does not seem to have a dev team that wants it, no matter how much it'd improve the QOL.
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i do care about what the community thinks. These survivors think they are getting screwed by killers, and thats not the case. It's a dev issue. This doesn't impact my game very much im just tired of seeing people misunderstanding why killers do these things
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what do you mean by dynamic maps?
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also just ignoring problems solves nothing. Mew playing survivor is impacted by this as well because we get more unnecessary camping and tunneling because killers aren't confident enough in their abilities to keep up with swfs or top tier teams. So they treat every game as this and me solo queuing with potatoes gets a killer that does this when it wasn't even necessary
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that they'd change slightly depending on the killer and the perks. E.g. a killer with no map pressure would cause the map to be slightly smaller, trapper and hag might cause denser grass/have their traps be a different color, etc. And at the same time some details would change to balance it, like slightly higher obstacles on loops against certain killers, more nooks and crannies to duck into and out of the line of sight etc
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This is the correct observation, rather than dithering about trying to say 'We gotta repair gens this is a stupid post."
Like... yeah you do, and actually doing gens fast IS a counter to camping because if you ignore the hook everyone pips save the killer and person on it. So the killer is FORCED to leave if you do em fast.
But structurally, the killer needs to TRY to force a snowball and if they fail they may just give up and retreat to secure a kill. And a big problem with DBD is very few things in the game exist to try to 'bound' outcomes.
Like, a lot of people rag on bloodlust, but bloodlust is an anti-infinite AND bounding mechanic. We need MORE of those that still allow players to display skill but not get literally infinite value out of certain interactions.
Also so many discussions on how the game should be break down as people interpret it as an indictment of how people play. In reality, its a prisoner's dilemma problem: go hard because being nice never improves your personal situation. No one can judge you for that. But out of the game we should be able to say 'W meta is a problem' or 'repair times are a problem' or 'killers camp too much' and not have it be about judgement of the players, but instead trying to understand why these things happen and how to fix them structurally rather than all constantly fighting like animals and bullying each other while BHVR laughs because us taking it out on each other means they don't need to balance the game.
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I'm not so sure the devs are that malicious as to laugh at us. More like incompetent ie ethan nurfing lullaby because he cant play survivor. or their scared they will push away over half of the fan base by pissing off whinny toxic swfs who complain the loudest even though they are not the majority of survivors out there. I think they need to just balance the game and whatever happens will be healthiest for it. We will get rid of the people who dont want balance and attract people by the game being a more fair experience
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Thats a neat idea, however i dont think they would do it because it would require so much work and they aren't exactly the fastest at tweaking maps
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Survivors tunnel gens all the time and they won't allow us to tunnel. The only reason I don't tunnel is because BT and DS, and I wish killers have a perk that allows him make a gen unrepairble for 60 seconds, just like DS
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Sorry brother the majority of camping I see is killers camping after 20 secs of the game starting and not one gen (or maybe one) has popped and there is already a survivor on the hook. So no it usually isn't three gens popping then camping. Most killers who camp are going to do it right from the start regardless of survivors on gens. They see it is a "go to" tactic always and it isnt,,,its lazy game play just to win. I run kindred always just for his because it happens so frequently.
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im not talking about those killers. Thats why i prefaced my comment with the 3 gens popping thing. I hate camping and tunneling, doesnt mean i wont use it to balance the game
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Thats maybe the only time I can see camping as a possible tactic when gens are popping like its cool and you make the players come to you. I wish that were the only time it is used. Sadly, I play a couple of hours or so a night and I consistently see killers camping on the first hook and only one gen is popped. It is sad I have to use up a slot for kindred just to see the killer camp. I guess the way to stop this type of camping is when killers constantly lose games because they sit camping and all gens are done and players are out the gate,,,maybe then they will learn. It is a problem but players can solve this not really the devs.
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Thats what I'm saying that if they fixed the balance of the game so the survivor objective doesnt fly by we can start talking about punishing camping and tunneling via new mechanics. You cant expect players to play the way you want if the game isnt balanced, for me its for killers to play fair/nice. No camping tunneling. In its current state in high level play its not always an option for killer
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I don’t understand your logic on this one. “Don’t like that I play dirty? Don’t like that I rely on dirty tactics because I don’t know how to rotate around the map and succeed in my chases? Well maybe you should just quit playing the objective because it’s ridiculous”
what dude
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They are popping gens in the first two minutes because of your playing not theirs
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Camping and tunnelling are the exact opposite of an anti-genrush tactic, as you're applying zero pressure on any other gens. If the survivors catch on to what you're doing, you're losing those last two gens in 80 seconds or less.
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If you're tunneling and camping then there's nothing else to do but rush gens. Interact with the survivors. Put up some map pressure. Give them something else to do.
See how the cycle works?
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That's how generators are supposed to work. That is literally what the game is balanced around.
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It cuts both ways. If the survivors just hold W and predrop pallets then the killer can't really chase them because the chase is completely uninteractive and one-sided. So the killer has to resort to camping and tunneling in the area now cleared of pallets whilst hoping the survivors don't make it to the safe areas by holding W some more.
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Nah you can do so much more about gens popping quickly.
You're very limited when saving a camped/tunnelled player.
There's a difference.
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Yeah mate. So don't commit to the chase. Pallets are also a resource if you're getting them dropped quickly that is more detrimental to the survivor team than killer. You're going to lose your team the game if you predrop every pallet safe, god or whatever.
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your logic is flawed, because your argument applies to only a part of the killer community. There are others that will camp and tunnel anyway, no matter if gens pop or not. As a solo survivor, i see it often enough, when killer camp and tunnel with no gen done at all.
anyways, i had games where the 5. gen popped with 3 survivors alive, and the killer managed to get a 4k, because everyone was already hooked twice. The game is not over at 3 gens, and not even at 5 gens (thats why blood warden and noed exist (and should; dont nerf noed, its just a survivors decicion to slow the game down by doing totems or get hit by it after!). Its over when noone is left to escape (or to kill).
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Playing safe is only detrimental to the survivors of the other 3 aren't on gens. If everyone is being productive when not in a chase and playing safe when they are, then it's the easiest win of their lives against all but maybe 3 killers.
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That's only true if the killer commits. They don't have to. It takes 80s each to complete a generator solo.
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It's true even if the killer doesn't commit. In a deadzone created by a teammate? Firstly, the gen was probably finished so it's rare to happen in the first place. Secondly, hold W. Suddenly you also become an extremely bad chase to take.
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Cut them off. If you can't, don't take the chase if it means losing an important gen. It's basic macro.
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But to what extent does camping stop the genrush? If you're on the hook and you stay there, you can't protect your gens?
Tunnelling may be helpful in some situations, or at least slugging one or two survivors, but camping mostly (unless they all swarm the hook) makes no sense.
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So, never take any chase?
Edit: I can't stress this enough, this is all I get all day long. No gameplay, no looping, no chases, just all 4 survivors holding W and predropping pallets while their teammates slam gens. This has been my norm for well over a year. If there was a counter, I would know it. I would have, in the very least, in all my hours analysing gameplay from both myself and content creators, know how to magically beat this awful, grating stratagey.
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...aren't you a Blight main. His power is a massive middle finger to survivors that hold W. As some other killers that don't have good ranged attacks, instadowns or are Nurse and Spirit you might be struggling but that's more due to maps having terrible mobility options and no good way to cut survivors off.
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i legit got camped, tunneled, and continued getting hit by a pig on my first hook when in the first minute of the game. why should i stop complaining?
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I cannot stomach any more Blight at the moment. I'm genuinely sick of playing the same killer over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. So I try to take breaks and play other killers. But then I remember that the biggest reason I'm a Blight main is because no survivors in AU ever want to actually play DbD. Or at least, not the ones that play in the evening at high ranks.
And the fact is, if you have to play a certain selection of 3 killers in order to get any gameplay, which Spirit and Nurse do not have btw, they just counter hold W, then there's a much bigger issue at play.
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There's always generators where no matter what approach you take will cut the survivors off when you approach. That's why I don't follow the shift w = impossible game logic. I just played bubba all day today and never had a single game where I felt couldn't win. I did lose some but was due to my misplays. I own them. That's the difference.
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I play the game at high level and with killer win 90% of my games. I even won the game im talking about but i knew within the first 2 minutes i had to play sweaty and unfair because of the calibure of survivor i was faceing I always go for 12 hook if the team isn't efficient. You assume to much and if you think its incompetence that this opinion comes from look at tournament play where its all slugging and camping. Its not a hard perspective to see
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nope they hide around the map and time them hopping on gens with me finding the first survivor and i have an efficient chase and down and hook them but by then they've popped 3 gens. In no way that is an issue on my end. Good coordination and survivors almost always guarantees this outcome
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Obviously each situation is different and not all games are winnable. It depends on how altruistic the team is. If I can tell they are all coming for the hook then I'm slugging for pressure. If no one comes i will make my way towards gens. Camping and tunneling do pull teams. They dont pull solo if they are selfish, but more times then not gens popping that efficiently means good coordination which means team
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I'm not talking about how fair a tactic is. What i'm saying is that it is a direct counter to gen rush.
Survivors rush their objective, killer rushes theirs
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Thats not true at all, if you cant get hits and downs gens will fly because the team has no other objective. Its up to killer to apply that pressure and they cant do that if the survivors play real safe
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This is why i didnt think you read the whole post. I take both sides into the equation
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I'm not talking hard camping and its situational. At highest level with no other options the best tactic is a slug tunnel. It plays off the teams altruism. The only counter to this tactic is if the team are selfish and just genrush. If i can pressure gens i will but if the situation calls for a slug fest and tunneling then i will
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It's literally survivors' job to do gens. What are they supposed to do, sit around and let them hook you?
It's your job, as the killer, to apply pressure to get them off of gens. That could be patrolling gens to push them off, but it could also just be chasing effectively. Survivors who are on the ground or on the hook are survivors who are not doing gens, and survivors who save said survivors are survivors who are not doing gens. These are the tactics in your arsenal to stave away gens.
The only way that 3 gens would pop in two minutes is if you spend the first two minutes chasing one survivor, in which case it's nobody's fault but yours. You need to keep deranking in that case, because chases should not last for anywhere near two minutes. At most, they should last about 40~ seconds, at which point they should have used their dead hard and be close to be getting downed, or you need to rotate and find a weaker link in the chain. You need to be efficient with your time. If I ever have a chase last more than 20 seconds, I make a mental note to not chase this survivor again, and identify the weaker links in the chain. Chase and eliminate survivors strategically.
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Thats completely different then what im talking about. I'm not talking about face camping. Thats completely different and a bs thing for a killer to do
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I win about 90% of my games and have to decide mid game whether im facing a team like this or not. I typically go for as many hooks as possible since the game rewards you for doing that, but i will not throw away a game to "play nice" against teams like that. Once i realize they are coordinated and not potatoes I have to switch and use dirty tactics.
I understand that what survivors do but these tactics are used as tools to counter good teams. It may not be "fair" to survivors but games that fly like that dictate how i play.
And nah you assume to much. I understand how to dismantle teams. In that particular game i patrolled until i found someone and efficiently downed them. 2 hits quick hooked. the reason why 2 minutes passed is because they hid until i found someone and then immediately hopped on 3 separate gens or hopped on as i passed. Good coordination causes this gens are 80 sec, its not hard to see
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