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The case for tunneling
Trying to explain this game to some colleagues brought something into sharp focus for me.
Tunneling isn't bad.
Some of you won't see that as new information, others are already rushing to tell me how wrong I am. Here's my case
Camping is punished by the game. Camp hooks all match? You'll likely end up with a silver or even bronze chase medal, no matter what else you do.
Does anyone know the penalty for tunneling? Trick question, there isn't one. In fact, I would argue 99% of the time tunneling the first Survivor out will result in a higher score, better chance of winning, and yes, more bp.
Why? Because BHVR isn't out to punish tunneling.
"But Asher," you say, "what about DS? The anti-tunnel perk?"
Exactly. BHVR is so certain tunneling as a mechanic will happen that they gave survivors a trick to deal with it
"But doesn't that mean tunneling is bad?"
Depends, is doing gens bad? Everything from Dragon's Grip to NOED exists to stop or counter gen rushing, yet I wouldn't think to argue against fixing the generators quickly, they are after all the Survivor's objective, and the Survivor team is free to approach that objective in whatever manner they feel most efficient.
Killers have 4 objectives, should they not also get the freedom to approach that objective in the most efficient manner?
"But it's no fun being tunneled"
Sure, just like it's no fun being focus fired on as support in Overwatch or TF2. Just like I'm certain it's no fun to be sacked on your own 20yd line as the QB. So? You've got 3 teammates, 2 perks, countless pallets and windows, use them.
(This line removed as it seems I overestimated the average visitor to these forums ability to understand metaphor) no matter how nicely I ask when maining Mercy, if the opposing team sees me, they'll kill me asap. The difference between those situations and DbD is only in the amount of whining afterwards.
You want to stop tunneling? Play as a team. Just stop acting like it's somehow morally wrong for a killer to kill efficiently.
Comments
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You’re comparing dbd players and Tom Brady what?
Edit: I know what a metaphor is which is why I can tell apart a good and a bad one
Post edited by Phasmamain on13 -
Hey let the man enjoy his rant.
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Why not? I needed a quarterback everyone knew, no matter where they are. I could say timmy from little league I guess to be more accurate, but I went for the easier comparison. (Full disclosure I only know the names of 3 quarterbacks, and of those 3 he's the only one who's still playing)
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Tunneling will always be the goal in a game where it's possible to remove one of your opponents for the rest of the match and you are literally in a race against time.
Players need to accept that tunneling is always going to be a thing and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. getting mad certainly hasn't caused it to go away, so stop wasting your energy.
Focus on being a better teammate - take responsiblity for your rescues even if it means you have to sacrifice a hook state on yourself to do it.
If you find that boring and can't accept that - then I'm afraid you just might be in the wrong game and may need to find another title that suits you better. I'm not saying that to be mean. Games should be fun - and if the game's failure states enrage you, then you shouldn't be playing it.
Or take regular breaks. There is reasons why I never play this game more than a couple dozen hours a month now...
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Well said, also excellent choice for profile pic
#Shockyboi
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I don’t know much about sport but Tom Brady plays in a competitive league for money. Dbd is a video game designed to waste time
One is competitive one isn’t
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And yet he's less salty when he loses than people on here who don't risk losing millions of dollars in future earnings due to a few bad games.
If you don't like the comparison that much, just pretend I said Jimmy Johnson from high school football
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true, but some of us like to play to win and expect our opponents to do the same.
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You can play how you want I’ve never said tunnelling was bad anyway but it is a casual game so expect people to play casually
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Because he has a reputation to uphold?! If he can acted like a salty dipshit then the public would hate him. You’re mostly anonymous online so there are no repercussions
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What does tom brady have to do with tunneling?
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Ok fine.
Jimmy Johnson playing football with his friends doesn't try and tell them he can't sack him because it isn't "fun". Instead he gets his teammates to block for him and pays attention to the field.
Is that better for you? Can we get back to the point of the discussion now, or would you like to say something about me using Mercy as my other comparison?
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When I get tunnelled, I cry. When I tunnel, I cry at you.
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I think you make a valid point and they are just fishing for anything to say your wrong.
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Thank you
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'camping is punished by the game'...
So, not getting more than 1 sacrifice in (IF the survivors say screw it and just genrush and don't outwit you) is 'punishing'?
You not getting to feel great and skilled is 'punishment'...
No, 'punishment' would be the game reducing your BP because you've been loitering around a hook without any other survivors nearby etc.
'punishment' would be the automatically reducing the number of hooks in your next match.
The game punishes nothing. And you ought to do some self-reflection as to why you think not getting to feel superior over others when you did nothing to deserving of anything remotely resembling respect counts as 'punishment'.
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As for mercy if you kill the support first what happens? You lose the fight more than likely. This was intended by the devs since supports are frail and have little means to protect themselves.
The DBD devs have intended the killers to please the entity. This is by hooking and killing survivors. The is a 10 emblem point progress in devour for hooking each survivor once aswell as an extra 500 points(could be more or less) for the first time hook
tunneling like camping is a strategy that is not endorsed but you can do it just like camping
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So you've never played killer and didn't read the full post.
Camping directly lowers your medals and score. It quite literally reduces your bp. "Proximity to the hook" lowers your chaser score. Go play some killer matches, pay attention to the medal breakdown, and get back to me.
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Camping reduced your bp gain and medals. Even if you hook and sacrifice all 4 Survivors, you will earn less bp and a lesser score than if you had not camped. No such reduction happens if you tunnel all 4 Survivors
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that is still not 'punishment'.
Because you are not suffering any 'actual' penalty for it. There is nothing coming off it that would make the next match harder for you/easier for your opponents.
The sheer fact that there are people using bot programs to slowly but steadily acquire BP shows how irrelevant BP are in terms of being an actual reward. They are an unfortunate necessity as they are currency, but reducing the number of BP you get for 1 match is not punishment. It's a mild inconvenience.
It's not a 'you will get only 10 min break instead of 30' but a 'you will get only 5 ice cubes in your drink instead of 6'
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By your definition the game punishes nothing at all, because nothing that happens in one match will ever effect the next one.
Though if that is how you feel, why did you type this one post earlier, before you found out camping reduced your bp?
"No, 'punishment' would be the game reducing your BP because you've been loitering around a hook without any other survivors nearby etc."
Post edited by AsherFrost on1 -
Tunnelling isn’t punished as much as camping but good survivors will destroy you if you try. Once you show you’re not willing to split pressure the other survivors will pump out gens faster than you can get the three hooks.
If you tunnel all 4 survivors out of the game you would’ve won either way
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Survivors tunnel gens all the time and they require killers don't tunnel. Is poping 3 gens in 2min fun for killers?
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im still trying to decide whether your comment was a metaphor or just a bad roast
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Good. Then they adapted to the playstyle, didn't they? That's not the game punishing a playstyle, that's the survivors learning to win.
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I have yet to be in a match where a Killer tunneled all 4 survivors, at the start of the game, and got away with it. So I don’t have much say here.
But anyways.
Tunneling is a 50/50 for me. It sucks, but the upside is that I don’t have to be in that match for long. (Should the Killer be the better at chases).
I just hate when it’s done purely out of spite, I guess.
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Yes tunnelling is a playstyle just like camping and both are punishable and counterable by good survivors your point?
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Are you always this willfully obtuse, or did I catch you on a good day? The point is simple, lot of people acting like tunneling shouldn't exist. I feel they are wrong and it is a perfectly acceptable tactic, fully endorsed by game design.
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I wouldn’t say endorsed but yeah the game just discourage you from doing it. I’m just saying that it usually isn’t a good strategy as it is boring and it will cause you to lose easily against good survivors
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I was confused by his terrible analogy
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man totally agree with you it makes sense
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My only problem with tunneling is that sometimes you can't stop it from happening. I know BT and DS exist and I use them but killers have ways around them sometimes.
I love BT and run it often as I want the person I unhook to have a fair chance to get away. BT is just great but not EVERYONE is going to bring it unfortunately also undetectable / oblivious completely bypasses it. I'm looking at you Freddy. Still BT is a really handy way of helping to alleviate the tunneling problem but heck I've seen killers hit the BT survivor I saved and then continue to chase them and tunnel them out because they know they have to mend etc. in which case all I can do is shrug and try to intervene but if a killer is hardcore dedicated there is no saving that person.
And DS like yeah it can work but only if they pick you up in which case you could force a grab by entering locker I guess but yeah otherwise most killers will leave you slugged for 60 seconds. Now I know what people are gonna say "If a killer leaves you slugged for 60 seconds then they aren't tunneling you" yeah well it is if they proxy camp you. Not everyone runs DS unbreakable either even though it is a strong combo and I've seen plenty of instances where I get picked up and then downed again immediately.
If a killer wants to tunnel you out they can and usually will succeed especially if you aren't the best player.
Oh side note, Second Wind can be amazing for being tunneled off hook as well as long as you can survive long enough for the self heal to trigger.
I understand killer is difficult and they have to generate pressure any way possible but tunneling and camping can feel especially horrendous at times especially when it's being done just to spite an unfortunate survivor that's done nothing wrong. I have no problem with strategic slugging, camping or tunneling as, IMO they are all high risk high reward tactics. Any of them can easily backfire if the killer isn't doing things right
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Then I guess by your logic the only ones who complain about tunneling just aren't good Survivors. I wasn't going to go that far myself, so I'm kinda glad someone else did for me.
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You should be looking to your teammates more. You've got 3 Survivors with you to take protection hits, try and draw attention, or even just go for saves and sabotages. Perks are good, but gameplay is what truly counters gameplay.
I'm not pro camping, in case I didn't make that clear. The game lowers your score for camping, and it's just bad strategy outside of egc. If I am camped I fully expect my team to get the 3E off of it.
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I disagree. You act like tunneling is discouraged when there are numerous times where it will work in your benefit. There's far too many to list but one example.
- If I see your injured and being healed by someone. Other survivors are injured. I know you don't have DS, I was too far away for BT to proc and your on death hook. It is in my best interest to get rid of you. One less person working on gens takes a lot of pressure off me to hunt down the remaining 3.
Now for every good situation to tunnel there's just as many situations where it's bad to tunnel. By bad I mean it's hurting the killer more than helping them achieve their objective. It's all determined by circumstances.
- If I see your injured and someone is healing you. I suspect you have DS+BT+UB and all the other 3 survivors are healthy. In that case it's better for me to go after the person healing you. The time I waste chasing you will be for nothing because of all the 2nd chance perks. While all that is going on the other 3 are safely repairing gens. It is a more efficient use of my time to injure someone else or to interrupt the others working on gens. If I leave you alone you will likely heal yourself instead of doing a gen. If you do jump on a gen then you will forfeit your DS and I can freely go after you if we cross paths again.
The problem I see when talking about tunneling is people have different interpretations of what is considered tunneling. Most seem to think tunneling is completely ignoring 3 survivors to specifically go after 1. Others like myself feel there is no such thing as tunneling. If it is the best choice to complete my objective that is what I will choose. There's also the fact that I don't believe the devs have a clue how to balance their game. The devs do good work most of the time but there have been several instances where they made things worse. My issue with hooks vs gens is against decent survivors the killer is at a big disadvantage. Unless the survivors are making mistakes for the killer to capitalize on the survivors will finish 5 gens before the killer can get 12 hooks. The devs are trying to push killers to hooking everyone 3 times when it is nearly impossible to do that without a meta killer or mistakes are being made.
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Don't see the issue with tunneling. As a survivor I get multiple chances before the hook. After that it's on the team to make the save and I expect the killer to take any opportunity to advance their objective. So at worst I get 1 more chance to escape the killer.
The whole point of the killer is to be the danger in the match, anything less and you might as well ask for an easy mode bot.
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Playing as a killer it's like disarming a bomb, you are under pressure, and a countdown is in your face to make the things worse, tunneling is a consequence of this.
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It amuses me that this is presented as a massive revelation.
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It kinda is for some.
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I play survivor and tunneling can have some drawbacks which is why its dumb that swfs think it's bad when someone is getting tunneled however they fail to realize that the killer is commiting to a chase so much that you are given a window to do objectives and not 3 gen, when I play killer I chase a survivor for awhile and if I can't get them then I leave them and go for someone else and for protecting gens I always use what's given to me which is noted and I force a 3 gen by going a around 3 more and let the others pop, why you ask bc I'm making survivors dig their own grave and letting them pressure themselves, when survivors say your bad for bringing noted then say there bad for bringing ds (if the have ds) in the end dbd is just a game, a source of entertainment.
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I think tunnelling is a thing and when done at the right time is rewarded
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It seemed the right tone given the number of threads where it seems tunneling=bad is basically the default thought pattern. From the people who want a free obsession perk, to the ones who want bt or ds to be basekit.
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Tunneling is camping,killers who pretend to leave the vicinity and linger around the hook just to come right back and down the survivor without any chance to flee away is camping/tunneling
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Tunneling is tunneling, camping is camping. If I leave the hook, by definition I'm not camping it. If I see the notification that you got unhooked and I am not chasing a different Survivor, why wouldn't I come back to where I know at least 2 Survivors are? If you are silly enough to stick around after being unhooked, don't be surprised that you get smacked down again.
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Also BT/DS isn't much of a counter it only buys the survivor a few seconds it's not a true counter alot of killers will just leave you on ground and wait out the DS as for BT in alot of the situations it won't even activate like If you're a freddy as killer and the survivor is in dream state
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It's as much of a counter as it needs to be. You also have 3 completely different people who could help.
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This is a valid point and I can agree there is nothing wrong with tunneling. On the same note, I could argue that the use of such tactics as tunneling, slugging and camping the hook are valid in given situations. Demonizing the mechanics of the game has become common place when you either suck at countering it or don't know how to. But the issue I run into are folks who use the same strat for every single game. Rinse and repeat and honestly it gets dull at least to my opinion. Not to mention the off chance they run into someone who absolutely counters it and they get immensly salty.
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I stand by the fact that tunneling is the killer equivalent of "gen rushing" only genrushing doesnt exist and aparently tunneling does. They are both literally just focusing on doing your objective as efficiently as possible.
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I've noticed that, when you tunnel someone, magically all survivors leave their gens and start trying to take hits for their teammate. It's just endless gen regression, rewards instant hits for essentially no chase, a free down whilst carrying someone I am still going to get to hook, just this endless buffet of poorly calculated desperate plays out of selflessness. How could you not want to tunnel?
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Tunneling is little d!ck energy. I only think its acceptable against toxic SWF'S (which is probably why tunneling isnt punishable-not because its "efficient".
Playing against a toxic swf is extremely difficult. DBD should give killers some sort of indicator in the lobby when entering a 3-4 man SWF (because 2 man swfs are no biggie). In which case killers (especially the least exp ones can decide if they want to take on the challenge) And 3-4 man swfs should always match up with high rank killers. You know, to make it challenging-because TOXIC swfers that only use meta perks for meme worthy toxicityss dont really use skill. They just f with the killer
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