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The lack of communication is what keeps BHVR and the community in a very unhappy relationship
Like how hard is it to inform the community and tell us, oh hey guys we're delaying the upcoming chapter for so and so reasons. But yet we have to hear it from a Fog Whisperer and not the official DBD Twitter account, the official account that retweets a lot of fanart but can't tell us something simple and clear. I'm not discrediting the fanart that people make, I've seen them and look amazing. My frustrations are at BHVR because why are we kept out of the loop with things!? The excuse I've heard is oh we never actually announced a release date for the upcoming chapter, yeah you didn't but people have to rely on leaks because there's no information given to us of when to expect release dates for new chapters by you guys. The Fall Guys Twitter account is very social with their community, and informing people of when they are dropping new seasons and a whole lot of other stuff. Why can you not do this BHVR, why are you constantly making this relationship with the community even worse? Remember the whole colorblind settings fiasco!? It was something that people have wanted for years, and you simply stayed silent about it until Steven Spohn called you out for your actions. Seriously how!? How can you simply ignore colorblind people's discussions of wanting colorblind settings, when you could have said... "We've heard that colorblind settings has been what people have wanted for a long time, we're glad to let you know that it's coming soon." We finally have these which is nice, but still that's absolutely disgraceful on your part for being so quiet about that. It's not just the community that's getting upset with the lack of communication, your own Fog Whisperers get upset about it as well because Otz has said countless times the communication with the community needs to be better. I think I've ranted enough, I imagine this will spark quite a conversation amongst the people here on the forums.
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They have a lead community manager, a huge team of community managers, another team of ACM's then a ton of mods. And they say nothing. Every 1.5 months they make a post about the new update and that's it. Their communication was insanely better(actually anything is better than 0) when they had no community managers and it was just Mathieu and Dave live streaming every week.
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It happens with every game.
Devs slowly lose passion for the game and they ultimately stop communicating with the community.
I would too if I have to fix things 24/7 instead of doing smth new.
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They make a routine of releasing patch after 3 weeks when they release the ptb so they should've thought that people would expect it to release today and inform people that it not releasing.
They should tell us when it will be release so that people would expect the release date from their twitter.
If people expect the patch today and people are getting disappointed then they're doing something very wrong and I hope they do something about instead of ignoring it like the rest of the problems
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This is the reason why they come up with ridiculous ideas like the UI change and survivor movement change no one asked for
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I miss those times. When we looked forward to the weekly stream.
Makes you wonder what the community managers actually do.
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To be fair, even if they communicate with us that toxic part of the community ignores these statements and still complaints about no communications.
it’s a lose/lose scenario for BHVR.
also Twitter guy/gal is awesome.
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I remember when the CM's were in most threads and talked to people.
Then people got angrier and less willing to talk and the CM's disappeared.
I miss them.
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Don't worry about being harsh, it's criticism that they need to accept and look at their mistakes. Like I would totally love to get the Minotaur cosmetic for Oni, but I want to see actual good reasonable updates to convince me to buy the overpriced set cosmetics. I know not spending money on any outfits will do anything to them in the long run, since they make tons of money anyway which won't hurt them in the slightest. Because there's still people who spend their money on this game, even though they have a huge toxic relationship with the game. But yet they still simp for outfits, and will continue to keep doing the same cycle over and over again. If I feel like getting outfits, it's just gonna be done with shards honestly.
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Man those were some good times, sadly the communication doesn't mean anything anymore since newer people came in and took over.
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community is too trash for that
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I literally had my challenges that I haven't claimed the bloodpoints from, and dailes yet to be claimed ready for this chapter. But looks like I'll have to wait another week, guess I'll just try to finish the remaining challenges I have left and get them ready for next week.
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Even though yeah the community gets toxic about things, there is things that they will be right about. Cause yeah we do understand the game more than the devs do themselves.
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I was ready to play my buff up main (wraith) but since it not coming I will finish so my challenges and have a break. The game is too stressful on me and it is affect me in the most negative way.
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Yeah I'll take a break as well once I get these remaining challenges done, only have six left to do. I just don't know how someone can even play this game everyday, and not feel like they need a break. Like I didn't even really want to get on DBD yesterday, but did it for the reasons I stated above. I was honestly more excited to get on Fall Guys once I was playing yesterday, and man that new update is impressive.
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I was very disappointed in BHVR when they just ignored players ' messages about the new UI, because the players have offered so many great variations of the UI, and they left everything as it is bad and don't listen to anyone
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They made adjustments for colorblind issues and repositioned the survivors.
they also said they will make further adjustments based on feedback but that some changes were needed for new features coming in the future.
this is actually one example were they did communicate with us but it just gets ignored.
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To be fair, even if they communicate with us that toxic part of the community ignores these statements and still complaints about no communications.
it’s a lose/lose scenario for BHVR.
That's a horrible mindset.
Why should BHVR punish the reasonable part of the community just because some idiots love to keep crying?
That's just causing a huge amount of problems for them (e.g Halloween Event,Twins Release,Colorblind Mode fiasco etc.)
We need more communication.
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Agreed. Didn’t say we don’t need more communication.
but we also need to reasonably communicate with BHVR.
communication goes both ways.
Post edited by Mooks on1 -
Personally, I don't think they should tell us anything, period. The sense of entitlement is palpable. In short, they cannot win for losing. If they tell us anything in advance, a flame war begins as everyone has an opinion about everything. They end up getting nothing but negative press, and by default will have all the people that come down on one side of the issue let down and claiming bias. This undeserved notion that we all get a say in things combined with the modern internet delusion that people WANT to hear every thought in our heads has created a lose/lose scenario for companies like BEhavior. Tradition and habits are hard to change, so they keep using outmoded outreach.
They shouldn't tell us diddly squat until they release it, or within days of release. The only thing we should see are teasers, with nothing concrete. If we don't get it until basically we get it, all our initial time is spent playing and diving in rather than theorizing (and already complaining) about what we did or didn't get. Do you see my point. Most of you are saying we need more transparency; I'm saying the opposite. I think the company (and us) could do with a lot less. Think about movie trailers. Today, most of them entirely spoil the movie. The best ones, for the best films, tease you and get you excited, but don't give ANYTHING away. That is what Dead by Daylight needs.
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Obviously,but you pretty much won't be able to stop that whiny part of the community.
BHVR should just ignore them and focus on the reasonable part.
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So they shouldn't have said anything about the colorblind mode and almo was in the right for pissing people off? Then when they get called out on it "oh here it is!"
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I mean.. Almo is just an individual person that got bugged and reacted to that while he probably wasn’t allowed to talk about the upcoming feature.
if people listened to what they have stated before, it would have been clear that a colorblind mode was in planning for a longer time but they couldn’t commit to a date. They didn’t just pull colorblind mode out of a hat. (They are way too slow to have that done in such a short time...)
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Almo saying things to irritate people is utterly beside the point. Although, if they were following my advice he wouldn't have been in a position to say anything stupid in the first place. :) If they just suddenly announced, when nobody was expecting it, "newly incorporated 'colorblind mode' for those who need it," nobody would have been grousing. Everyone would have been happily surprised.
There is an old saying, "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt." That is the situation here. If BEhavior interacted with us less, or at least were far less "personal" about it, they would do better. They have created this expectation that they will give (or owe) us information. People are largely ungrateful, and once they feel they are entitled to something (whether they are or not) they whine if/when they don't get it. They always want MORE. The video below perfectly illustrates the dynamic:
I don't think they owe us, nor should they (for their own sanity and ours) tell us anything they don't have to tell us. This pertains most strongly to information about rules changes and upcoming releases. They need to keep us at a healthy arm's distance when it comes to it.
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We will have to agree to disagree. For one thing the play test isn't enough time to test anything. That is a fake exercise to make us feel like we are involved. Instead, it just creates all this outrage when they don't implement every damn thing that everyone asks for. They never intended to change much; the exercise was just that... an exercise. I'm a working adult too, and I don't need all these details. Let's talk about the Trickster, i.e. the fella being released today. We already know EVERYTHING about him. There is no mystery. In fact, a significant number of the people here have decided he is the weakest Killer in the game, and have already written him off. Anyone coming to this Forum and reading about the Trickster would be dissuaded from buying him. How is that good for the company? :)
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Also what about like future perk ideas like the OoO experiment? Everyone knows how busted OoO is so bhvr asked "hey would you like this version of Object if it was implemented"? And pretty much all the reception for it was good. Id personally love to see that new OoO come to live.
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On the Trickster we are closer in view than we are on transparency. I also played him during the play test and didn't find him weak at all. I buck the popular opinion that he is the weakest Killer, and in fact feel he will be a middle of the road kind of guy. Unlike you, however, I didn't really enjoy him. He was very one note for me. There was nothing wrong with his efficacy, just didn't appeal to me as far as play style. I didn't find enough variation in how to play him to keep him interesting for that many matches. I'm sure, however, lots of people will enjoy him just fine.
I will cede the point that the community (if there is such a thing) do not all agree. But the problem is perception is reality in advertising. Those vocal yahoos which dominate Forums like these create the perception based exactly on how vocal they are in the volume of posts. The so-called transparency ends up a net loss for the company. BEhavior losing money, in the long run, is also a net loss for us as the consumer. Games like this, which are entirely online, only remain vital and relevant as long as the company is making money. The less money they make, the less they put into it and the sooner it dies. One say, even though we all paid for this game, there will be no way to play it anymore.
Game companies are not the government. If they were, I'd be all FOR total transparency. Game companies produce non-necessary, luxury items. Their quality is determined by competition and performance. I don't want to know how the omelet gets made; I just want it to taste great. Too much transparency (and that is what they have now) doesn't serve anyone well. We aren't a community. They don't see us as family, or even friends. We are consumers. There is nothing negative in that statement. They want our business. They need to focus on product and have THAT win us over. The public relations campaigns have all been utter failures. Why waste time and money on things which always end up a net loss? It doesn't make good sense.
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What about them? If something is busted, people will post about it after the fact. They don't need to tell us anything up front. People will still post their ideas, and the company can still mine those posts. The key point here is NOT setting the expectation that we get a say. They don't need to let on that they are doing anything until it drops. No false expectations means less blowback. I'm not saying BEhavior shouldn't read what people post on the Forum. I'm saying they need to do it entirely hidden. Nothing is going to stop people from volunteering ideas and advice. Keeping us at arm's length and being professionally aloof prevents us from us developing any sense of entitlement. Do you see where I'm going with this?
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So youd rather theyd waste the month or 2 reworking the perk to find out its busted and have to revert it instead of the approach they actually did and got community feedback on it?
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In all fairness there was never a release date given to us and it was just speculation but I do have to admit the communication between the devs and player base is getting steadily worse. I mean remember when the god awful animations and UI was first implemented and they were silent for ages.
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Not to mention every time they give Fog Whisperers codes for anything.
Some of them are like...
*Insert obnoxious Intro* "Hey guys don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, share and digest the video and make sure you stay tuned and follow me on all 30 socials to see when I'm gonna do a giveaway for one charm or cosmetic ! " As they proceed to make 10 clickbait videos in 1 week and milk this code for as long as possible...
Yeah, you know who you are....
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<laughs> They already do that asking for our so-called help. The community has proven extremely divided and unreliable in so far as providing useful feedback on anything. You are also making the assumption that they actually make those changes based on our feedback and not on their own internal testing and/or whim. They don't make any changes quickly which is demonstrated by the fact that many of the changes that the majority ask for take years to implement. Do you see where I'm going with that? In short, the process doesn't have anything to do with us, or at least not in the way that we THINK it does. We have an expectation or a perception of how the process works that simply does not match the reality. I submit that transparency only causes us irritation because the disconnect between what we ask for and they do is more apparent because of it.
Consider the most recent play test (although what I'm about to say applies to all of them so far). The so-called community gave a metric ton of feedback. When only a tiny fraction of it was implemented, the storm of outrage and indignation that followed was horrific. Any good will the company "might" have gotten by involving (or pretending to involve) us in the process was entirely negated by that backlash. It was a net loss. I submit that when they put things out for play test that they already know 99.9% of what they are going to release and the play test isn't going to change it. I would even venture a guess that they already know the small changes they are going to make before the play test, but still do the exercise so that we FEEL involved.
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Least they fixed it, but their communication definitely is still not the best.
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I submit that when they put things out for play test that they already know 99.9% of what they are going to release and the play test isn't going to change it. I would even venture a guess that they already know the small changes they are going to make before the play test, but still do the exercise so that we FEEL involved.
It definetely feels like it.
Kinda like that scenario where the little brother wants to play the videogame too and gets a turned off controller from the older brother lol
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Wanna know a time our feedback actually helped (well one of many) The new Ui. The devs spent 6 months on a change that was kinda unnecessary and pushed it through because "their call" and...for lack of a better word it sucked ass. They had so many better fanmade recommendations but when it was clear they wanted to stick with their decision we just said "then just condense the ui down to the bottom left and give skillchecks their own size option" and before you say "how do you know they weren't already planning to do so!" You know for a fact they werent for either of those. And so things got mostly fixed and things died down. But they could have solved the problem by showing us the UI Earlier and tweaking it for release. Save everyone the trouble.
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Pretty much worded what they could have told us perfectly
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You know I've wondered this as well
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Isn't it funny that they have a few community managers, but you never even see them on this forum anymore? Maybe once in a blue moon you see one pop in here to answer a non-important thread, but that's it.
These community managers were way more active, but now they are non-existent.
Note: Nothing personal against the person behind the title. It's just an observation from my end.
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It's mainly just the mods on the forums now
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Your first point is I think an underrated one. Adults take time off work to play new content all the time. To use a different example for a different community I'm in, Monster Hunter Rise is releasing this Friday, and there's at least one company in Japan that's literally declaring that day a day off work because so many of their employees were planning on using PTO for it. Over here on this side of the Pacific, my wife and I are both taking time off to both focus on our move and still have time to play Rise when it releases. Imagine the backlash if Friday came and went and the game didn't release without Capcom saying anything? That would be absolutely abysmal PR.
There is a bit of a difference here where BHVR didn't declare the release day, but as rational, reasoning adults it makes sense that no communication would lead to people thinking it came out today. And the backlash could've been avoided or at least minimized in multiple different ways. Say what you suggested later in the thread, that they're not giving a hard date. Say once you realize that you can't possibly release on time that bugs have delayed the chapter...I've been an advocate for them not rushing patches for ages because of how many random things break each patch, so I'm all for them making sure it's ready to roll, but you also need to communicate that to the players. Radio silence is not good PR.
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I've always wanted to visit Bhvr just so I could figure out what the hell is going on inside. ( Not literally, but damn it I might if the don't fix their communication!) I just really, really want to know what is going on, have one of the Devs tell us, I'd give anything to understand a lick of what is happening at Bhvr
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Man I miss Peanitis ...
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It's the amount of bugs every single patch that gets me. I'm a software dev for a small engineering company so I get how some bugs slip by. But bhvr is a large company with supposedly dedicated testers, and honestly gameplay doesn't drastically change that iften between patches, so why does every patch feel like it's part of a beta release?
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Because the initial budget for the game was too small (the publisher had no faith in the project) and corners had to be cut.
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I dont understand what that has to do with how bad they're releases are now though?
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As a software developer, I'm sure you're familiar with how difficult it is to rewrite, maintain, or even use code that was improperly written ("spaghetti code", for example) without causing any problems elsewhere in your program, especially when that code is the basis for everything else in your program.
If you're not familiar with this, then I suggest you try to find an example of spaghetti code and untangle it, or just write some yourself. You basically just have to ignore every good practice in coding, make something moderately complex, and then try to fix the code so it follows best practices, without breaking everything else. Give it some time between the writing and fixing, because forgetting what the code does is also part of the problem.
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This. I took time off of work. Now I have to ask for time off next week. If the patcg even gets released. Definitely not the end of the world, but don't condition your clients to expect patches to be ready 3 weeks after the PTB and than have a fog whisperer break the news about the patch not coming out when expected and then when people are annoyed, don't have some mod just say "well we never gave a release date".
That's just disingenuous.
Also, to the point that someone made that we're acting entitled. Nah, at this point between the cosmetics, DLC, and game pass- this is basically a subscription at this point. We didn't just buy one finished game. The devs absolutely need to work harder at retaining their business. Clearly communicating with the community would be a good way to improve the relationship and retain clients.
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The fact that they CAN communicate with the community but rather choose to repost fanart is pretty irritating to hear.
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I don't get this argument. They could do both - some time on fixes, some time on new stuff. New maps, characters, game modes, mechanics - there's a lot of new stuff you could do with this game, there's so much potential. What about 2 v 8 game modes, or Left 4 Dead style 'mutations' of different game modes? There's plenty of new things they could do if they are bored of the game as it is.
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They never said that the chapter was going to be released this week. Everyone just assumed it or trusted "leaks". You can't reasonably be upset that they didn't tell you it was delayed, when they never gave a release date in the first place.
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The feedback didn't actually help; the post release backlash is the only thing that changed it. They did show us their ideas early and the majority disliked it. They still went right ahead and made the change. Do you see my point YET? Had they NOT shown it to us and established this notion in our heads that our opinion would sway things, it would have gone over much easier for them. They could have just dropped it on us, and a lot of people would have been giving immediate feedback. There would still have been pushback but it would have NOT included the outrage that we weren't listened to in the first place. It would simply have been genuine concern and suggestions to put it back or change it. What BEhavior got instead, for their foolishness of revealing it to us early, was a toxic storm of angry people who didn't understand why they were not listened to in the first place.
So again, you are simply PROVING my point. Showing it to us early did no one any good. Had it be just released, there still would have been feedback and it still would have been changed, and probably at the same speed. However, the notions of entitlement and blind range that the company ignored us would not have been there. The entire unnecessary step would have been skipped and all would have been happier. In short, don't put things out early (or provide info) with the vague idea that our opinion can change anything prior to release date when it can't. They should tell us nothing. We should get teasers. We can give our feedback when the thing drops.
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