Can dead hard be considered unfair?

I don't know... if you know to position yourself to get the necessary distance with dead hard and know your pathing, I don't think it's brainless. I've seen so many dead hards at nothing, without any plan, that just work to prevent an early hit and can be easily baited out. I guess that's most of the cases. It's a bigger nuisance when the survivors know what they're doing, what can be also done with good positioning with the other exhaustion perks.

I agree that invicibility through traps feels too much, especially considering how Trapper already feels lacking in power.

And yes it doesn't work most times hahahahahahahahahahahahaha sorry, I had to say it. That's why I don't even use it. I'm more annoyed on how survivors act cocky towards you because they have it (eye roll) than because of the perk itself.

Knowing how Dead Hard works and being a heavy David Main, Dead Hard doesnt work a lot of the time and Can be easily countered by just waiting a few more seconds so No Dead Hard is no where near Unfair

just like NOED and a few other killer perks

I'll gladly trade NOED for Dead Hard 👀

trading what do you mean by that

you can't remove perks

to be fair killers are more faster than survivor so why shouldn't we have perks to help us win chases??

I think the difference is the versatility of Dead Hard. Lithe and Balanced Landing require some kind of pre-planning, and an environmental trigger.

For example, you're being chased, you drop out of a window and use balanced landing. Lithe, you're being chased, you jump a window and sprint off.

With Dead Hard it's a shorter distance sure but if you use that distance to make a safe pallet or window then the distance is irrelevant as everyone knows once you make a safe pallet or window in DBD you can easily chain into other tiles as the killer will be forced to break the pallet.

Secondly, the versatility takes out the mindgames. Take the killer shack or L-wall,T-wall for example. This is something that happens regularly to me. Last night as an example I look like I'm going to chase a survivor around the T wall, I backpeddle instead, the survivor catches this late and changes direction running around to the L wall window. They do not have enough distance now to make it there safely without being hit. They tap E and now they have just enough distance to make it safely. This is what makes Dead Hard so frustrating to play against because it operates as an "undo mistake" button. Lithe and Balanced Landing can not be used in this way.

Lastly you have all the killer powers it destroys. Lithe and balanced create distance but thats it. Dead Hard avoids nurse blinks, blight rushes, huntress hatchets, deathslingers harpoon, pyramids POTD, trappers traps, and against all the killers with no anti-loop you just use it for distance to reach a pallet/window and loop them.

It's too strong and too versatile for the little requirement it has which is 1) be injured and 2) press a button.

Anyone who tries to downplay its strength either doesn't understand the game or they're lying. 99% of rank 1 & 2 survivors I see use this perk. Not the carried survivors, but the genuine good survivors. That right there says how strong it is. People wouldn't use it at the highest level if it wasn't extremely powerful.

Well, I think that we have to deliberate on the meaning of "unfair" first.

What constitutes, in the sense of this game, being "fair" and "unfair?" What factors do we consider in this definition? And this may seem pedantic but this really is important.

I propose that to be unfair means to be decidedly helping the chances of one side. If we add something to any side's arsenal that makes it so that they are significantly more likely to win now, then it can be considered to be somewhat unfair. It throws off the balance of the game.

In that sense, DH is only slightly unfair. Yes, it can be used to extend loops, but only when the situation is ripe. For instance, if the killer is too far, but if you don't DH you won't get another opportunity to use it, it could be considered wasted. If the window is too close and DHing to it would just prevent a fast vault or animation lock you, then it's useless. If you're in the middle of nowhere, or have nothing to dead hard too, then it's useless. Plus, this is the entire point of exhaustion perks; to help extend chases by helping you gain distance. Yes, it can be annoying to feel that a hit was robbed from you by DH (when it does work out, anyhow), but it's really only a few extra loops. Unless they DH to a very safe location, it's just running on borrowed time, delaying the inevitable. Very rarely will this turn the game decisively in the survivor's favor, and turn a 4k into a 0k. It's annoying and can feel cheap, but it's not that impactful if the killer has a sense of control and efficiency.

As DBD is an asymmetric experience, meaning that comparing the survivor experience to the killer experience is like comparing apples to oranges, it's just impossible to tell. One thing you can look at, though, is the kill rate. Ever since the addition of DH, and with every other "unfair" perk, it's another thing to juggle with, but it's not anything that will decisively turn the game in your favor. The average kill rate is at a healthy 68%; hovering around 2ks and 3ks. It clearly hasn't broken the game (in red ranks, anyhow. I don't even want to think about the whacky hijinks in lower tiers).

TL;DR, what does it mean to be unfair, if we're talking about making one side significantly more powerful than the other, then no. If we're talking about relative to before the addition of DH (in terms of the chase), then only slightly.

Saying such a thing is trying to shut down discussion. Sprint Burst has more value due to being able to avoid a chase entirely. To make unsafe gens safe. It's how you use a perk to what gives it strength.

Also, why are we against strong perks? Must everything be mediocre, weak, or useless? Dead Hard is strong, yes. But it is not unfair.

Thats coming from a Nurse main who despises the perk.

@Mr_K It's not trying to shut down discussion it's trying to shut down all the disingenuous people. All the top players use Dead Hard, they wouldn't use it if it was a bad or useless perk. Also sprint burst being strong doesn't mean that dead hard isn't.

@ShamelessPigMain ok and? I don't think you will find many people saying NOED is perfect in its current state.

I explained my reasoning on the previous page, it's too powerful and too versatile to be used so often every game with no real requirements. It's stronger than mettle of man was.

Believe me, people on this hellscape of a forum say NOED good more often than you'd think.

But that's not the point. NOED is much more "unfair and unfun" than DH could ever dream to be. DH is still rather situational and will guarantee a few extra loops, or help you get to a loop. NOED will activate specifically if you're playing poorly, and is an instadown on all survivors. Not only is this "unfair," since you pretty much don't have to even work for it, quite the opposite, but it's unfun for both sides. No nuance, no subtlety, there's no sense of satisfaction. When devour hope works, it's great. When haunted grounds works, it's euphoric. When make your choice works, it's orgasmic. When NOED works, it's just "meh."

Noed can be a "bad word" some games but I personally believe Dead Hard has more of an impact than NOED does. Its not uncommon in red ranks to see all 4 survivors using it, 12 dead hards per trial usually, say 50% are ones you can bait out, thats still 6 dead hards that grant a free window/pallet and carry the chase on. It eats up a lot of time. As I said it's an undo button on command that makes killer powers and mindgames worthless. If you play well or fool a survivor you should be rewarded thats how most games work but in DBD one side gets an undo button.

Once again it's single player design in a multiplayer game. I do wonder what if any multiplayer games the designers worked on before DBD.

But the multiple dead hards over the course of the game snowball to a position where 4 survivors make it out so its more than just a free pallet, everything in DBD has a snowball/butterfly effect. I've seen single dead hards costs entire games to be honest, like you can pinpoint thats the moment the game was lost.

But again I agree with the other person, nerf both DH and NOED. I may have the profile picture but that doesnt mean im a fan its just for the memes to be honest.

Dude that quota was filled on Monday and next week's one was filled on tuesday...