Sabo needs a HARD nerf
This is seriously the most frustrating mechanic in the entire game right now by a long shot. It's REALLY not fun to play against.
Do you realize how much time and effort the killer has to put into a chase? having to outplay a good survivor to get them down? and what, someone gets to undo all of that hard work by holding a button for 2.5 seconds? are you ######### kidding me?
I don't know what's happened or if it's relating to an archive challenge but I'm getting hooks sabo'd in almost every game right now and it's broken beyond belief. You've changed the hook layouts in the reworked maps too so you can never make it to a second hook. Before if they sabo'd one hook you could reach a second but now the hooks are so far once one hook is sabo'd that's it you're #########.
I don't think anybody realized how broken this is because nobody used it until now. 2.5 seconds....to undo an entire chase.
I've had entire games snowball into a loss from this. It's so overpowered when they deny an early hook.
For what it's worth this is the outcome now
3 people being left to bleed out and that will be the outcome everytime someone wants to sabo a hook because hey it's a mechanic in the game right? I'm sure those survivors are having a barrel of laughs. About as much fun as I have having the hooks destroyed constantly.
The design in this game is so ridiculous it beggars belief. How you can just take away so much from the other side by doing so little. Sabotage needs to not be instant anymore. You shouldn't get to deny a hook with the tap of a button.
Comments
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Wait saboteur? Saboteur is a bad perk, it needs a buff tbh
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sabotage in general. The act of sabotaging the hooks. Either via the perk or toolboxes.
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I could say the same about camping and tunneling being annoying though. Sabotaging hooks isnt even that bad, they dont get done in 2.5 secs but take longer people just usually finish doing them when the killer is coming. Also, then the toolbox has ran out and cant be used for gens which is a good thing, right?
I think you should just find out ways to get around it effectively.
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I prefer the way it is now instead of the before where they could 99 a hook and then tap it to sabo it.
Or even worse the original Sabo where they could just destroy every hook for the entire match and you only could use the basement hooks.
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@Dizzy1096 oh, you are such a young creature that didn't experience the true hell of Sabo meta in 2016/2017.
Such innocence is precious.
Current Sabo is perfectly... Weak and would require some sort of a small buff of sorts, but I have no idea what kind.
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Yo Fizzy.
Drop the survivor?
Survivors are off generators if they're sabotaging hooks, it isn't free. Lol
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Everything in this game is made to basically piss off the killer. From non stop slow animations to super unfair perks .... you're job is literally just to try and give the survivors a somewhat good time.
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Honestly, most of the points made were quite accurate.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on2 -
Saboing seems pretty weak to me atm (ignoring the taxi meme build I run which hard counters saboing). The only time I find it actually is impactful is if they attempt it just as you are approaching a lone hook in the area.
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Hmmm... could there be an imbalance between Killer and Survivor, and could this be an explanation as to why nobody plays Killer, making Survivor queues so incredibly long, and causing problems for effective matchmaking?
No, it's all of the people who are wrong.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
@Seraphor Yes exactly these people don’t get it. Its funny how so many complain about queue times but then they’ll turn around and flatout refuse to play killer to avoid queues.
@Toblerone007 No the “feeling” is important. Its like the object of obsession debate, Almo says its not overpowered but the point is its incredibly frustrating to go against. Having someone just tap a button to deny the hook you just worked so hard for is insane. The only reason I havent noticed this before is because nobody used it, now its every game, and its so obnoxious.
@alecsharks Sadly I agree. Everything on the survivor side is snapp and responsive. Killers always feel stiff and awkward. Like pyramid letting go of m2, plague stopping the puke. Theres a good few seconds where you cant do anything. I get its an attempt at balance but it just makes the killers feel stiff and unwieldy but the survivors feel so fast and responsive in every action.
Then you have the fact that killers have so much counterplay. Killer powers and perks often have hard counterplay, whereas survivor perks tend to have no counterplay other than hoping the other player makes a mistake.
Its very easy to see the reason why despite the survivor side needing 4 times as many players, its the killer side that has instant queues. In these types of games its usually the 1 that has the longer queues, not the 4. You would think this would set off red flags but apparently not.
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Are you sluzzy alt account ?
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Yeah, Sabo is nothing compared to what it used to be. If someone sabos a hook in front of you, chances are if you've picked them up recently, you'll make it to another hook no problem.
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OoO is actually a competitive advantage in a communicating swf. It's actually OP.
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Balance very likely isn't the cause of the queue time disparity. Even in an asymetrical game with perfect balance there is absolutely nothing that suggests that the ratio of players queuing for each side should be such that both sides have fast queue times. These days I play a lot more survivor because I basically only play when I have friends who want to play with me, for example. That would still be the case regardless of game balance.
Kill rates are 68% at red rank and 56% overall as of late 2020. Killers clearly aren't performing poorly to the point where the people who care about winning are switching sides en masse.
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Everyone I know who plays killer has the same story.
90% of matches are against red rank teabaggers who they don't stand a chance against unless they play Spirit. Whatever the balancing issues are, it is not 'fun' to play killer at high ranks. You are just an attraction for them to shine their flashlights at and teabag at the exit gates, while you pretend you're enjoying the game.
It it were fun, you'd get more killers, regardless of the amount of disparity between survivor and killer queues, it would be lessened.
The SBM fixed this to some degree, at least for the mid-range players. I didn't go against purely red rank sweaties, and when I tried out a new killer I hadn't played before, I actually had a chance to try out their power effectively. With proper MM, you go against players of your skill level, and the game is miraculously fun again.
But it falls apart at the highest skill level, because there's so much disparity. SWFs are insanely OP at the highest level against most killers, with only Nurse and Spirit posing any kind of threat.
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If someone sabotages the hook you're going towards and you won't be able to reach another hook, just drop the survivor you're carrying and chase them. Down them if you can, but if not just smack them once and get back to the slug. You still get good pressure out of that and unless the first survivor was close to wiggling already you can probably just hook them in 30 seconds when the hook comes back.
Even if a survivor sabotages a hook, they usually had to waste time they could have been spending on gens to get in position, they're often gifting the killer free pressure, and frequently there's still another hook close enough to the sabotaged one for them to hook that survivor regardless. There's a reason why it's not very common.
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It's just 30 seconds of breaking, and even then, there are so many hooks that you can often just turn around and find a new hook. Rarely does it ever work without incredible coordination and at least two survivors with a toolbox/god forbid saboteur, bless their hearts.
Whenever a sabotage really does screw me over, I just slug the guy and tunnel down the saboteur. Even if the guy I got first does get healed, they still took a lot of time to go find and heal the slug.
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Matchmaking is a bigger concern than balance, and that's true for both sides. If 90% of red rank matches were actually against squads that would stomp you without playing sweaty as a Spirit, red rank kill rates would not be 68%.
The only feasible way for SWFs to be insanely OP at the highest level and for kill rates to also be both high and substantially higher at red rank than all ranks is for those SWFs to be exceedingly rare even in red ranks. I think SWF has a high ceiling, but in practice I think skill disparity within the party, over-altruism, groups that either don't like or don't have the game knowledge to call out information to their teammates, etc. make SWF a lot weaker than people on the forum would like to think.
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Sabotaging needs a buff if anything. It's hardly a viable option for survivors anymore. The Saboteur perk should reveal the aura of hooks while survivors are down, not just being picked up. It also shouldn't enter cooldown unless you actually sabotage a hook.
Post edited by GoshJosh on0 -
If that were true it wouldnt be a problem. However its never the case. Im telling you they’ve spread the hooks further out at some point over the past few months, likely to go along with the map reworks. Theres only ever 1 hook within range and this is without oak offerings.
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If you're having THAT much of a problem with sabotage, then I'd recommend running Hangman's Trick. It will let you see people running to the hook and give you a notification when they start saboing. That or just drop them when you hear the hook break, no Hangman's Trick needed.
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agitation, mad grit
problem solved lol
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This is prolly the best way to handle it.
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I think the uptick in sabo that you’re seeing is because of the rift. There’s a challenge where the survivor needs to equip Breakout and make the killer drop a survivor.
Sabo is a great way to make this happen. Whether they wiggle off or you intentionally drop them, sabo caused the desired effect. The occurrences of this will probably taper off in a few days.
In the meantime, equip Hangman’s Knot so you know which hooks to avoid.
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I agree thats the cause but the problem is nobody realized how strong sabo was because nobody used it, and hooks used to be closer. I tested sabo when it had its ptb and you usually had to disable 2 hooks.
Seeing this in action now and everytime only ever having 1 hook within range....it's ludicrous. Perhaps it's not the sabo change but the hook/map change that's the issue.
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Either this or they need to make more hooks. This is kind of like flashlight saves where it seems like survivors always get them against you, but it's actually really hard to pull off.
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My only complaint about Sabo is survivors can sabo hooks with just saboteur faster than the hit cooldown.
Like you can hit them mid-sabo, and during the animation, they can sabo and break the hook. Basically if they make it to the hook before you do, that hook is going down.
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Sure sabo is annoying but it is really not that strong. If you think about it, it's even an advantage for the killer. 1 person got downed and is carried, 1 person need to sabo the hook and if you down the sabo dude someone has to come and pick up the slug person. That means only 1 person is working on a gen, so you're still pressuring the game.
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that isnt true, hit cooldown is a half second faster. And no matter what you can down them if they sabo. considering how many hooks there are you always get a hook no matter what the survivors try unless you ######### up massively
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Sabotaging was already nerfed, very hard. It is better than before and takes more skill to pull off, if it happens to you then just drop the survivor and chase someone else.
Sabotaging is also very rare nowadays, so I really don't see a reason to nerf it further.
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