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Dead Hard needs to go.
It's not used the way it was intended to be and has zero counterplay on the killer side. A perk, that's intended for the survivor to dodge a killer hit, is now used instead for distance, to reach a window or pallet.
Where's the counter-play on the killer side? You can wait it out if they're using it to dodge a hit, but for distance? There's nothing you can do. They'll take another loop around a structure, you'll be making all the correct manoeuvres, they hit E and make the window/pallet and now the chase can continue for another 30 seconds+ because of it.
There's zero counterplay when its used for distance, that's what annoys me. There's nothing I can do and the fact that every survivor can equip this and waste more of the killers time in a chase is oppressive.
It needs to go.
Comments
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"JuSt BaiT or wAIt iT".
But yeah, it's one of the obligatory perk on red ranks. DS, UB, DH and BT/Iron Will. Every single game everyone has DH, ocasionally someone has SB, but it's rare. This third health state it's what made me stop playing nurse, too much trouble to make a perfect read just to be outperked and restart the chase
20 -
I had one dead hard through my Deathslinger gun. I was just like “whelp, if this is how it’s going to be in higher ranks I don’t want to be higher.” I don’t find going against meta perk laden survivors fun. It’s just constantly denying me hits. And then they act like they are these grand players after erasing every hit of mine and all getting away.
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the thing is that I don't find it that troublesome when I play a killer with anti-loop/ pallet options, but incredibly obnoxious as an m1 killer.
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It’s definitely used a lot but I’m rank 1 and don’t use any exhaustion perks. But I’m probably a rarity lol. I find it more satisfying to escape chases / loop without any second chances. Makes me feel like I’m actually earning my survival. I don’t shame people who do use exhaustion perks though. Each to their own.
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Yup, it's so obnoxious its unbelievable. I played Wraith on coldwind against four very good survivors with it. They used it for distance, getting to a window or pallet when otherwise I would've downed them and by doing this, it made it so I either had to abandon the chase or commit for another 30 to 40 seconds, because coldwind is a dumb map.
Oh, and they all had DH so abandoning too much was just a loss as well. Nothing I could do =)
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I myself use DH, it's hands down the best exhaustion perk. I don't blame survivors for using it, why would they not use the best perks? As well I don't blame spirit players, it's an extremely good killer. But that doesn't mean that this things aren't problematic, and it's up to the devs to offer a more fairer experience to players.
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you're complaining about DH and you're playing The Wraith. I see the problem here, and its not Dead Hard.
It's like complaining about your Ice Cream melting on a summer's day. What else are you expecting here, for Wraith to have a ranged attack? a blink? a lunge ability? no, you have stealth. if you can't use stealth to down the survivors then improve on that or choose a different killer.
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Sadly, this is the case. There's no reason for survivors to not run DS/UB/DH/BT, etc every single game and it makes it miserable for killers who aren't Spirit or Nurse because they can't handle it.
But then even these perks can't save you from a God Nurse or Spirit, so then it becomes miserable for the survivors.
4 -
Least fun perk in the entire game. Nothing ruins the fun of the game for me like this perk, not NOED, not DS, it's just awful. No matter which killer I play their power gets cucked by this perk, mindgames get cucked by this perk. it's a third health state and an undo mistake button.
I genuinely believe it's a stronger perk overrall than mettle of man was and look what happened to that. If Dead Hard was made today there is no way it would be this easy to use, it would have a hefty requirement on it.
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The way DH was made is quite fun and interactive for me. Being in an open field with no windows or pallets around, the survivor is staring back at you, waiting for you to swing, whilst you're staring at them trying to see who gives in first.
Now THAT is fun and that's actually a fair situation and encourages mind games. Using it for distance? Most unfair and boring thing ever, especially for the killer.
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I also love that when you mention deadhard hard for distance the counter arguments are always "Lol deadhard? It doesn't even work 90% of the time" "exausted on the ground" or "just bait it out or wait" like they just ignored your argument and think that you're like a rank 20 that thinks deadhard is op because you can dodge a m1 with it. Or "just predict the dead hard" like how tf should I "predict" deadhard for distance? I predict that he's going to to deadhard to a pallet, he deadhard to a pallet, WOW GUYS I PREDICTED THAT HE WAS GOING TO DEAHARD FOR DISTANCE.... I need to go to sleep
7 -
The only issues I have with dead hard are very specific, mostly I think it's fine it just needs some QOL for both survivors and killers.
Being able to dead hard over traps when the trapper can't even step over them is a bit unfair given he's already not that strong of a killer in the first place. It also doesn't make sense you just glide through the trap.
Secondly, I hate how you can have no momentum whatsoever and still dodge a hit. Like dead hard into a wall and move not even an inch from the spot, and the attack phases right through your body anyways. I feel you should have to at least be moving to get the invulnerability frames.
Lastly, I feel like dead hard should only apply exhaustion DURING the invulnerability frames and not as soon as you press the key; because more often then not you get exhausted on the ground just because of latency, or some dumb glitch with game animations or such. If you still get hit and downed, fine, but at least don't exhaust them for it they timed it correctly it was the game/servers that decided it failed not any particular player.
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"jUsT bAiT iT" "jUsT wAiT iT" "kIlLeR mAiNs CrY fOr EvErYtHiNg"
On a more serious note, I agree with you. I am not sure how to fix, but something must be done.
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If it even fkin works.
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I agree some ideas about the DH. DH can be sometimes toxic perk to use and it really is "get out of the jail" card for survivors. Many exhaustion perks are about getting instant distance by running,stunning the killer or simply vaulting while DH is something different which counters the hits. It is not a big problem in my opinion but sometimes I saw really broken ways of DH such as dodging traps which I think should not be happened just because you use DH or just instant dash to killer's location but killer cannot even hit because it is just DH. There should be some logical rework at DH. It is a nice perk, its idea is nice but in some logical ways it is broken and needs fixes at that points. Other than that it is fine.
2 -
Other than perhaps making it not possible to dead hard through a killer, I have absolutely no idea why this would bother anyone to the point that they would want it cancelled. Often, it's as much the downfall for the survivor as it is an escape mechanism. Plus it's actually a good gauge, indicating how intimidated a survivor is: Those survivors who are tend to use it too early or with no control. Knowing how unnerved a survivor is dictates what strategies to use.
1 -
There's no issue with Dead Hard. At all. Aside from the fact it works only 30% of the time. So what if people use it for distance? They got to a pallet or loop faster and you didn't get your down then and there. Get over it and learn to loop or don't chase them straight to a loop. Cut them off, force them to go another way that doesn't have a strong pallet or loop.
Moreover, who cares if everyone runs it? Every single killer runs damn near the same build, same with survivors. Corrupt, Pop, Sloppy and NOED or Thana. At rank 1 that's almost every single killers load out for me and if someone brings an item it's Franklins. Doesn't matter if it's a brown toolbox or not. The only time it changes is if it's a 1 shot killer. Then you get Infectious and slugged for lord knows how long. Does that mean Infectious needs to be removed? No. Does that means Franklins needs to be removed? No. Do Pop and Corrupt need to be removed? No. It's a competitive game where perks give you an edge. More so if you know how to utilize them to their full effect.
TL;DR Learn how to play the game, expect survivors and killers to run the meta and quit complaining about literally everything.
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All they have to do is make it so you can’t vault pallets and windows or dropping pallets for 2 seconds
1 -
I don't mind too much the "dash" part of Dead Hard. The only thing that bothers me about it is the invincibility frames part. It makes no sense to hit a survivor with Deathslinger's shot and the survivor's body acts like it's made of steel.
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It would be nice if every single player on the planet didn't run it lol.
You get into a game as nurse and literally everyone has dead hard so you basically have to hit everyone 3 times.
5 -
I find Dead Hard to be the answer to killers that counter windows and pallets, the only defense for survivors. Even then, a dead hard won't save you from getting hit from Pyramid Head's shockwave attack or Spirit when she's phasing.
1 -
Again. Perks are supposed to help the user and give advantage, they DONT NEED counterplay. Let survivors keep their strong perks, you have your own.
5 -
First post complains about DH not being used as intended. Third post complains about DH being used as intended. Lol.
1 -
Killers that complain about dead hard really want survivors to play perkless. Dead hard is a good example of what good perks should be, if it works. Now what killer will complain about a perk like Poised?
2 -
No one left behind needs a nerf. Faster unhook AND faster heal? there's no reason it should have both.
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And look at Rancor. It gives a free 1-shot and ability to mori.
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That was all your fault, Deathslinger cares the least about dead hard out of every killer in the game, just be more patient when shooting next time.
1 -
Are exhaustion perks not meant to be used for gaining distance?
In one way or another?
Let's take Head On for example, it doesn't give you a burst of speed but stunning the killer gives you a headstart to start running away.
Deadhard gives me the same vibe. Yes a survivor can use it to get to a pallet or window. They can also use it to just, dodge an m1 or other attack. What if they use it to dodge said attack and reach a safe pallet at the same time? The perk is functioning as intended.
The problem with wanting to nerf Deadhard is that if you nerf its already short distance, it doesn't really seem like it would be usable even. If you completely remove the i-frames it becomes even more unreliabe. If you make both of these changes it literally becomes garbage and people will just opt to run Sprint Burst and bait you into an M1 / SB away.
The only nerf I can get behind on Deadhard is making it not work over Trapper traps. Otherwise if you nerf it it's going to be useless and everyone will use Sprint Burst in its place but that's probably what you want anyways.
I don't even see all the hype in DH I much prefer Lithe or Sprint Burst over it.
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Oh please, the survivor doesn't need to DH until they hear the shot. Not to mention they're constantly running away and he only has a limited range.
Once again it's on the survivor to mess up the DH. The survivor has to get the timing wrong to get hit. No counterplay but something something Spirit.
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DH needs to stay, it's fine as is.
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Funny I am a red rank survivor since 2018 and have never ran DH, UB, or DS. When you use hyperbole as your "fact" it completely negates your statement. While those "meta" perks are common in red ranks - they are not used every single game. Maybe watch a variety of streamers and you will see your supposition is not true or based on fact. I track my perks and the perks of every single survivor when I play survivor/killer and have gone several matches in red ranks as survivor and killer and seen many matches without any "meta" perks being used. Maybe you should use words like "majority" or "often" which are more valid then speaking in absolutes and hyperbole.
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DS is being nerfed and y'all are already going after more meta perks, lol we might as well get rid of bloodlust than.
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Alright, alright, maybe I've exaggerated here. Sometimes it is just frustrating to outplay a survivor but they get away because of Dead Hard. But maybe it should stay the way it is.
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I stopped reading at "has zero counterplay"
We have perks that mess with exaustion perks, we can draw it out if necessary.
######### get gud.
FFS... the mediocrity I see from players of both sides on this game who refuse to deal with anything slightly resembling a challenge.
4 -
At max range, sure you can react to it. But if you can dodge a slinger shot with dead hard when he's at a medium range to you (spear travels at 40m/s, if you're at, say, 8 metres you need to press dead hard in 0.2 seconds after you hear it, not even factoring in the equipment you use, the latency of the server and dead hard's iframes and animation not kicking in until a few fractions of a second after you press the button.)
I haven't seen a single survivor dodge a shot on reaction with dead hard that's not max range in the year he's been out, they were all predictions and the Slinger didn't hesitate before he fired, or they didn't press the key in time because you would need almost superhuman reaction times to successfully do it.
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yes that's annoying I get it. But as a ton of people have said I just wait it out.
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There is no skill in pressing E the only bit of skill needed is make sure your going the way you want as DH has cost me many times by sending me into walls or trees or other inanimate objects. that's why I never run it.
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Tell me about it a spear hit should take priority and what about the fact they can be standing still and activate it like ######### you should be in a active chase for that not standing stock still
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Return to rank 20 please.
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Theres no being patient when they have Dead Hard. It’s a guaranteed free get out of jail card. If I didn’t shot then or waited he would have just dead harded.
2 -
Dead hard looks very unnatural in a horror game. If it was an fps game it would be fine but in a horror game probably not. Why and how would a survivor leap like a frog while running full speed in a chase?
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So basically we're gonna whine about a perk that requires you to be injured, and serves the main purpose of an exhaustion perk, which is to gain a slight advantage of distance.
Its not that big of a deal as it seems to be made of in the forums, seriously, its mostly you being exhausted in the ground.
The perk is fine as it is.
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tbh all I want is for Dead Hard to still trap you if you dead hard over a bear trap, I have never understood why Dead Hard is just a middle finger towards specifically trapper and Nurse but some of this needs to go, but in general dead harding for distance is just annoying
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Unless he was just about to dead hard around a corner (the only way you're using dead hard against slinger) there's no reason for you to not wait for the dead hard or bait it by ADS-cancelling, which will work a lot of the time against the majority of players. Unless you're at long/ close to max range they literally, physically cannot react to a shot, they have to predict it or dead hard around a corner. All you have to do is be patient. It's the same with Huntress.
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If a serial killer is swinging at you with a giant bladed weapon wouldn't you try and use all the adrenaline and energy you have in you to lunge out of the way? That's what dead hard is trying to be. It doesn't look like a frog leap at all lmao.
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It does at times, especially if the killer is really close. Also is it really possible to take a 2 step jump while running full speed in chase and suffer no slowdown after it as well?
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"zero counterplay on the killer side"
Wait hello? Dead Hard makes you exhausted on the ground, I dunno what you're talking about.
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Sprint Burst is far worse than Dead Hard to me. I hate having to chase Sprint Burst players and if your killer can't recover from the initial distance gain then it's not worth chasing unless it's the only survivor you see. I can't count the amount of times i've dropped chases because survivors just Sprint Burst away to the safest location possible. As a Legion main i hate Sprint Burst to an extra degreee because it's so much faster than Frenzy, 1 Sprint Burst is damage enough against Legion, if it's the 4th survivor you find it's ok you got 3 hits that's something but being first or second it's a massive blow.
2 -
Ah yes, I'll equip mindbreaker and get gen rushed in 3 minutes.
lmfao what a joke some survivors are
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Since 90% of people are using it you'd think dev's would take notice of the perk and that it may be troublesome?
Imo if it only provided dash and not invincibility it would still be meta if you had 2 brain cells to know how to use it properly, but since it's one of fav surv perks of course they're not gonna change it because they don't want to upset entitled survivor mains who use every crutch in a game to win at any cost and take all the fun out of any killer player who doesn't play meta ######### all the time too.
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