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Earning the hatch + a little QoL
So @Kyledbd had an interesting idea for a small change to the hatch. That idea was basically to only allow players to get hatch if they earned it by not hiding around doing nothing all game.
Original thread - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043735#Comment_2043735
Allowing any survivor to get the hatch to open (if everyone dies) by progressing the game a little bit
***EGC will still work with this btw, if 3/4 of survivors die, but the last one is still alive and did not earn the hatch, EGC will start immediately.
I have come up with my own idea of doing this. I thought about it for a little while and I think it is a good idea that could be implemented that would not change too much. It would solve the problem of players being immersed just to get the hatch because they are too scared to do anything.
The idea is to only allow hatch to open for the last survivor IF they have done a minimum requirement of progressing the game. The minimum of what they need to do can be up for a little debate. I say that players need to work on about half a gen for it to open. There should be some sort of ping sound for this that can be heard by each survivor individually that lets them know that if hatch spawns, they can escape through it.
If the survivor didn't do anything, then the hatch will simply not spawn if they are the last survivor and if it does and the survivor who did nothing all game can't use a key on it because the entity will sink the hatch into the ground and disappear. (a small animation could work with this).
It would be a very gentle way of encouraging players who stealth around the map way too much to progress the match without being too lenient or too much. Not all players who stealth around the map all game are trolls with keys, they are mostly just noobs who are still learning, so there is no need to be harsh with this idea.
Let me know what you think, or come up with your own ideas.
The QoL change would be to let everyone know when hatch has spawned on the map just like in DBD mobile
Comments
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@Yords There use to be a minimum gen amount to spawn hatch for last survivor but they took that out. You needed at least 2 gens to even attempt at the hatch. Now you can do absolutely nothing and get hatch. I rather just have the gen amount back because certain killers would make that super impossible and Whispers just ignores that.
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What if you get chased or are unhooking/healing teammates all game? Hatch is really fine as it is and opening up a discussion as to what counts as contributing is a complicated question.
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The problem here is if there is no hatch for the last survivor, and no EGC, then the killer is still faced with a stealth survivor they need to spend hours finding. And if the killer is allowed to start EGC by opening a gate, then the killer is still faced with the same problems the hatch already presents.
Also, no hatch under these conditions punish solo’s that WANT to work on gens, but the other 3 survivors are total morons, and that solo survivor is in constant damage control doing saves, heals, or trying to find Ruin because nothing is getting done because of how frequently that solo needs to help others, or is simply getting chased off of gens all the time (surveillance or tinkerer).
I’ve been in many games where despite my BEST efforts it has been IMPOSSIBLE getting any gens done at all. Why should a player faced with those circumstances punished for the actions of 4 other players (killer, 3 survivors), actions that are completely out of the solo players control?
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To be honest, as a Killer i dont want that back. The games back then always was a insane pressure for me because i tried so hard to get everyone before 2 because of the hatch. Now i dont have to care anymore.
Well but now you can close the hatch so it could be different now i guess.
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The thing is, it's almost only killers that are trying to define "earning" the hatch, the majority of survivors don't care about the hiding survivor getting the hatch, it's only points after all, and you there is much more to do in the game than just progressing gens like healing, saves, totems, items for the team, sabo, etc.
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What they already said, then you have to find someone inmersed who will probably try to DC you out of the game, I had to find 2 guys who decided to go full inmersion once and it took me 17 minutes, I dont want to repeat that just because some people crave 4Ks more than mosquitos crave blood.
Hatch is fine, if someone didnt get their 4K because Hatch is not the end of the world it may reward bad Survivors but it also rewards good players who happened to be paired with potatos, it may punish good Killers but it may punish bad Killers who were lucky they got 3 potatos.
Id rather have 3Ks half the time than having to deal with inmersive trolls.
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@Ruma If you curbstomp a team before 2 gens are done, you earned the right to a 4k regardless. Closing the hatch now keeps the standoffs away. I remember camping the hatch for over 4 hours on PS4 just to deny a survivor the hatch because the person didn't deserve it.
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I agree. I don't understand why they even removed it in the first place.
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The whole reason why they changed hatch spawning no matter the gen count and the addition of EGC, was to stop people from holding the game hostage
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One thing I never understood is slugging for a 4k is so boring and pointless, I never bothered with it. Yet when I play games as survivor, killers do it a LOT.
Like they will knock someone down and pace the area until that person is near bleed out sometimes hoping you come to them to be killed out of boredom that's how bad they want it.
I never understood that.
I would rather the survivor just escape and I get to go to a new game, then play find the urban blendette for 45 minutes. I don't have that kind of time for the game these days.
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But it doesn't really change much in fact, it rewards players for the chance to escape with hatch if they can make it. It is in a good spot, but I just wanted to brainstorm ideas for players (mainly the trolls) being way too stealthy i.e not contributing to the team at all.
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I like the idea of earning it but maybe it shouldn't just be down to gen progression. My thinking for this is that one survivor who gets found early and manages to distract the killer for quite a while, or the one who focuses on heals and saves.
Perhaps it could be either icon or bp based to determine who can get through the hatch?
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It would be more fun if the hatch spawned always BUT if the survivor didn't "earn" it (hiding all game, farming people off hook and so on), the hatch would kill the survivor if they jumped in.
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That is another thing I was thinking of, and also why I wanted to hear other people's ideas about this.
I'm confused here, you are saying that solo's who want to work on gens are punished? This paragraph seems a bit unclear to me.
Also, I did not mean to imply that EGC would not be put in place. The second the 3rd of 4 survivors have been sacrificed, EGC starts and the hatch disappears.
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I meant that can WANT to work on gens, but needing to help teammates that keep going down and getting hooked, or me constantly in a chase prevents me from doing so. I could (and sometimes can) still end up being the last survivor alive despite not getting a single repair finished despite actively trying to when I have the time to sit on one.
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Glad to see this is still a topic of discussion, thanks for the credit. Hopefully something is changed eventually.
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My idea was that the game would use your already implemented point system. Everything such as blinding the killer, totems cleansing, hook saves and looping the killer gives you points so there would be a minimum score you need to reach to unlock hatch for endgame. This would be fair to all Contributing survivors and only punish the corner campers who hide the entire game waiting for left behind to kick in.
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No what would happen if the survivor didn't unlock hatch through in game achievements then the game would act as if the killer had closed hatch and the moment the 3rd survivor dies the countdown would begin. Nothing really changes about the current shape of the game..only update would be to deny survivors who don't contribute the hatch in endgame
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I actually main survivor. I came up with the idea because as someone who usually only has one or two friends on but rarely a 4th we often play with 1 or two randoms who would go into games with the intention of playing a hatch game from the start. Using left behind and offerings like annotated blueprint. They knew they would get hatch at the end. So they purposely let their team die on hooks and never contribute to the team game. This idea was to end that play style forcing every survivor who wanted to escape to have to contribute. And in my original idea I suggested a point system. Currently the game has a point system for everything (saves, totems, looping the killer ext.) There should be a minimum score requirements (achieved from anything not just gens) that unlocks hatch for endgame. Sure some players would still just do the minimum then go back to hiding but it would be a little better then it is now.
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The endless endgame hunt wouldn't apply here tho. The way this idea would work is simple. The moment the 3rd hooked survivor dies. If the final survivor didn't unlock Hatch through in game achievements the game would act as if the killer had closed Hatch and the timer would begin. So endgame would still end quickly. Basically nothing changes from the current shape of the game other then the hatch pretty much AUTO CLOSING on survivors who didn't deserve it.
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Well my original idea was to use the in game score. You get points for everything you do so there should be a minimum score to unlock Hatch and you can reach that score many different ways.
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Then theyll camp the Exit Gates instead of the hatch, open them and escape anyway.
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Oh, I see and yeah that would be a problem if you needed to work on generators only. Maybe we could extend the "half a gen" requirement to other things as well, such as one SAFE unhook.
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That usually results in a failed escape since the time it takes the killer to reach exit gate is way faster then the time to open. With barbecue and chili they already see you and know exactly what gate to go to and even if they choose the wrong gate they really only have to walk halfway look for a light and if there's no light walk half way to the other gate and check for a light there.
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Thats not how you open the Exit Gates in EGC.
Wait for the TR, wait until it goes away, open until the E on "Exit Gates" just a frame before the first light goes on, hide, wait for TR, wait for it to go away finish opening the Gate and escape, starting the EGC just when is one left will change absolutely nothing, just people camping the Gates instead of hatch (which some people already do, especially if they know the Killer knows Hatch position).
Post edited by HectorBrando on0 -
If a player is so lame they play a hatch game they probably don't know thr gate trick. And keep in mind the killer often doesn't walk all the way across the map giving you time to open the rest of the gate. Most high rank games I play or if I'm the killer myself. All the killer has to do is walk back and forth a very short distance between the doors to monitor both for that first light. Granted if you get doors on opposite sides of the map and a big map the gap is bigger and the time to walk just half the map is to much for the killer unless they play spirit or nurse or someone who can get around faster. But how often do you get those gate spawns. 90% of games they are side by side. And if the killer runs whispers your done, traps and the survivor sets them off DONE.
yes maybe sometimes that useless survivor will still get his free escape but not very often and eventually they will adopt a new method.
Tbh I don't understand your issue... if you play killer this change is great. If you play survivor and contribute this wouldn't even affect you. The only people who would have a problem with this, the only players this effects are those who don't contribute and wait for hatch. So is that you?
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Because it addreses nothing the useless guy will be waiting near the Doors when the last one is down instead of waiting near the hatch also people who do absolutely nothing are very rare past yellow ranks, fixing half a gen is something almost every green +rank does unless you get tunneled by the Killer and then you may distract them for 8 minutes, he decides to break chase, kills the rest and you dont deserve hatch because fixing half a gen is more important than distracting the Killer or going after every unhook and healing or wathever, past yellow ranks is very hard to be really useless, its diferent from being "useless" because one teammate decided you or someone else was useless, most time people accusing others of being useless are just venting.
Even if this change would be implemented it would serve no purpose the guy who refuses to do nothing would hide, wait until he has confirmation Killer is after someone, fix a gen for 40 seconds and hide again, he can do this 20 seconds at the start of the game and 20 seconds when there is only 2 people left.
In my opinion, this thread is another of those veiled attempts to get rid of hatch citing reasons like gameplay, worthiness of the last Survivor, right to 4K, no entitlement to escape, curb slugging, curb hatch-campers or wathever instead of saying it openly "I want an easier time getting that last kill" which is what most of the times you get if you boil down the posts.
In the end the dilema is simple, either you have something like Hatch+EGC with a real chance for the last one to escape or you risk people holding the Killer hostage while going full inmersion, I pick the lesser evil, less 4K in exchange for not having to hunt an inmersed troll for 15 minutes or more. Ive been there before the EGC was implemented, when hatch only spawmed after 2 gens were fixed and I had to search for the last guy for 20 minutes because he refused to show himself, there was no hatch and no realistic way to spawn it, it wasnt very engaging but hey, I did get that 4K yay me...
You all need to realize this, its not about right to 4K or right to escape, its about avoiding hostage situations, plain and simple.
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