Should borrowed have a fixed 32 meter range instead of tr?

I think this would be fair, I've wanted that change for a while (I play killer & surv).

It just makes sense to help counter hook camping, also not to mention Freddy getting a free counter to borrowed time simply by existing.

No. Killers using TR alteration to play defensively on the hook is an intended feature.

Even with BT you shouldn't feel safe unhooking in a killer's face. If they REALLY don't want to let you get someone of the hook you shouldn't be able to do it, because the killer defending any objective means they are giving up all map pressure. Ergo, the survivors should never be able to 'overpower' the killer.

Also, BT itself actually causes camping behavior, it doesn't stop it. Ghostfaces, Pigs, ect play less defensively at hooks knowing they can drop TR if they see someone going for it to bypass BT. Killers hard camp rather than doing more interesting things because they know they literally can't stop an unhook unless they are 5 feet away. You want killers to feel like they can safely leave without losing all tempo.

What we honestly need is a nerf to insta-unhooks, not a nerf to camping, so killers don't get punished so bad for leaving the hook and instantly having a BT rescue without getting the free down on the rescuer or being in a new chase by the time it happens, which basically loses you the game at red ranks. If the killer KNEW you CAN'T rescue for 20 seconds, suddenly defensive play would be less necessary but also less rewarded and killers would be far more likely to try to do new chases.

That sounds extreme, but slugging someone basically guarantees the same thing right now: you actually 'heal the survivor' by picking them up and hooking them for the survivor team and lose 20 seconds of incapacitation on the ground if you hook. And it is a BIG reason why killers who don't slug often play very 'campy:' You NEED to make up those 20 seconds you gave to the survivor to make the hook 'worth it.'

And neither does Wraith, or MnA/Rabbit Myers. Not every perk should be 100 percent effective against every killer IMO

If they were to make it radius based I think 24-26m would be better.

Definitely would need extensive testing to better evaluate how it would work.

It's as I stated before, not every perk is a 100 percent effective against all killers. It doesn't matter what the perk's purpose is. Just look at Decisive Strike which is anti-tunnel - Pyramid Head hard-counters that one as well.

Making it radius based would just encourage fast-rescues in the face of the killer which many would consider to be unhealthy gameplay as it disempowers the power-role.

Certain things in this game delete other mechanics. This is nothing new. Hell, look at my grinning Avatar - do you think that guy gives a ######### about Stealth play? No, he deletes it from the game. Nurse doesn't know what a pallet is.

Freddy himself is a mess, nobody will deny that. But let's focus on the killer itself, not the perk that is perfectly fine.

I would agree, but only if we add in some method to deter people from using Borrowed Time needlessly. I don't want to give incentive for reckless unhooking.

I think it should punish the unhooker in some way if the unhooked survivor is hit. Make it more of a calculated risk. I cannot count the number of times I've watched a dangerous unhook, just to have the unhooker dead hard through the unhooked, just to make them take a hit for them.

Yah, funny how that works. It's almost as if the devs are trying to make us understand that camping is completely allowed. Especially if the situation might call for it.

People should be just doing the goddamn gens if somebody is camped anyway.

No. I don't want unsafe unhooks to be incentivized even more, that just rewards campers and hook vultures. If you know the killer is camping, all the more reason not to unhook in their face.

I mean at that stage would it be better to remove the TR requirement entirely? Have it proc automatically for all unhooks regardless?

Its only 16 seconds and would be pretty difficult to abuse. By having it work in radius I think it would actually harm stealth killers more by giving info that they're near. An auto proc would mean you couldnt tell (unless you hear TR, obviously).

Most anti tunnel anti camp perks don’t work against pyramid head because his power effectively respawns you across the map. Even though he can find the cages I don’t think he is supposed to, which is why they move if he finds them (though he can still game that system by proxy camping it instead of getting too close). So in theory he’s giving up his ability to camp and tunnel off the hook in exchange for not dealing with meta perks. It plays out a bit differently in practice but is a very healthy design instead of the current hook camping that exists now.

For why BT should work in a fixed range, I had a miracle solo Q game against a forever Freddy the other day. We got all the gens done, expending almost every pallet to do so. The last guy got chased in a dead zone and went into the basement.

It took three attempts with literally the entire team tanking hits to get an awake survivor into the basement for a BT save and the cycle of trading was only stopped because of a key and the hatch being right near the basement.

The fact you can’t even trade against a Freddy while the team resets is ridiculous and it applies to killers like Bubba as well. They took away rev camping but somehow still made him 10x better at camping.

I completely agree. It's a needed change since it makes no sense that some killers can camp/tunnel with no worries, but I wouldn't want people to bumrush the hook. Maybe it could become an exhaustion perk so it would include some risk if the killer decides to go for the unhooker.

So we have a couple killers that are good at camping, so let's punish the rest the 20+ killers because of these edge cases? Really?

Listen, I get it it, it's sucks that certain people hook farm - but put the blame on your dumbass teammates not the killers.

But let me tell you something - you know what will happen if you set it to Radius based? People will get bolder about quick unhooks. Do you know what happen when killers get barraged with fast unhooks? They start getting slower at leaving hooks because they start to anticipate it. If nothing else, you're going to push more killers into camping.

BT is in a good spot right now. It stops all but the most hardcore and only has a problem with a few edge cases that need to be looked into. It gives you a chance against most of the roster without taking away the danger of going for the unhook.

Let me tell you something, setting BT to radius will make getting a last minute sacrifice with the gates open next to impossible in most cases - and if there was ever a time to be justified in camping - that's it right there.

There's really no reason BT shouldn't work based on killer's distance from the hook rather than terror radius. It's really ridiculous with all the random undetectable and oblivious effects that it hasn't been changed yet. And now with the DS change, it's the perfect time to make this change imo.

Though I do also think that if someone has the endurance effect from BT that they should lose their collision so that they can't body block the killer.

If you are hitting someone coming off the hook within 15 seconds, you were very close to it or just immediately returning to the hook. It’s that simple, 15 seconds isn’t that long. I’d be happy if it just triggered automatically. I don’t see how that’s “punishing” killers for hitting people they know just came off the hook.

You know how easy it was for me to 1 hook mori with wraith/ghostface/pig/etc before the mori nerf? You just stood nearby, waited for the unhook, uncloaked, smacked them and mori’d them and it ignored both BT and DS. And you can still do that today but off second hook now.

And honestly, if the game is all the way to endgame, exit gates powered, and the killer is relying on facecamping to get their 1 kill; they deserve to lose to BT / DS. They lost the game, they don’t deserve a pity kill. That Freddy got 3 hooks the whole game and 1 of them was a basement hook so he should just get a free kill because he landed 2 M1 attacks?

Rephrase the question "should stealth killers and freddy be free to camp hooks and avoid BT", there's your answer.

No, it would make it a little too strong and encourage unsafe rescues. The perk is already pretty effective and would be able to be used even more offensively.

The perk already encourages unsafe rescues for newer players which is very unhealthy.