Can I use DS and Unbreakable now?

Just like killer players shouldn't fear being ostracized for using a mori after it's nerf.

Its almost like survivors are more vocal since killers are at a all time low and theres 4 survivors and 1 killer. And its almost as if undying ruin could get cleansed 5 seconds into the match while ds unbreakable you had to force out in some way. Either way both combos are now balanced.

I'd bet money that devs were much quicker to nerf Ruin+Undying because they most likely had statistics that kill rates were going up exponentially with it while also quickly becoming one of THE most common perk combinations. That would have been hard data that a particular perk combination was too strong in an unnerfed state, instead of DS+UB being a slew of complaints without so much of the hard data that it was somehow causing killers to lose games in droves. I don't think that complaints (regardless of how valid they may be) speak as loudly to devs as hard data does, and you must admit that it is most likely much easier to pinpoint why kill rates are going up due to killer perks rather than why a killer isn't getting as many due to survivor perks (for instance, until the community screamed and hollered very, very loudly, there were initially no plans to nerf OoO because OoO users did not show increased rates of escaping, and perhaps still overall kept the balance of 2-2 when it came to escapes-kills. This of course ignored the common feeling that OoO is often very unenjoyable to go against)

Undying+Ruin COULD be cleansed within the first 30s of the game before you got any use of it, but in my experience it was just as, if not even more, common for it to last for a long time in the match. In solo it was absolutely unbearable because you could NOT coordinate with 3 other solo players to cleanse a totem that showed your aura and very often caused the killer to start a chase with you before you could finish cleansing it. If the killer had Tinkerer, you basically HAD to stop all gen work to find up to five totems because Freddy, Billy, Spirit, Nurse, Blight, etc., were all Headed To A Gen Near You as soon as they got that notification that they needed to go get some gen regression going and you couldn't tell another survivor on the team that they needed to get that last 20% of the gen finished while the killer chased the guy who got it to that point.

In a decent/good SWF, sure, it wasn't THAT overpowered. If you got chased off of a totem, you could call out the location to a friend while in chase and get it gone regardless. You could finish a gen someone got Tinkerer'd off of. But solo queue? Or even low skilled SWF? Nah. And like I said, bet money the devs noticed that it was too much just based on their statistics

Yes, the devs didn’t want to shake up the meta. So feel free to use it now more than ever before.

That is your own personal experience- because I can say with assurance that *my* experience was the opposite of yours. Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer was the number one most common build I saw for killers for MONTHS, especially if they were a killer that could take great advantage of it (Spirit, Freddy, Blight, etc)

And when I played killer at red rank for a few months (no longer red as I took an extended break) I very rarely saw DS+UB (same goes for my boyfriend who has steadily played killer at red ranks for nearly a year) and when I did I can't say that it often negatively affected my games. I also rarely saw the combination in solo queue.

I definitely play more survivor than killer, though, and I would assume the opposite might be true for you, so that would partially explain our different experiences (as if I'm correct on my assumption, I'll see more killers than you do, and you'll see more survivors than I do). But I 100% saw a very large percentage of killers using the R+U+T build before the nerf.

DS+UB IS very difficult to counter, there is no arguing against that- but speaking from personal experience, there were many matches where I would have had no idea that those perks were even present outside of the fact that perks are shown to you in the end game screen. Therefore, it wasn't quite as passively active as Ruin+Undying was, if that makes sense? Like, survivors basically HAD to take action from the very beginning of the match to neutralize R+U(+Tinkerer, commonly) but a killer might not even have an issue with a full SWF of UB+DS if he was lucky enough to be involved with the right survivors at the right time. (Of course, chances are, any game with more than one DS+UB bringer could give you issues with at least one survivor and it could snowball the entire match out of your favor)

I don't disagree with anyone who believes that Ruin+Undying wasn't all THAT powerful in SWF, but I think the main issue was that it was extremely oppressive in solo queue. The fact that Undying showed auras made it difficult to cleanse hexed totems, and not being able to notify another survivor of its location further made it difficult. Combining Ruin and Undying with Tinkerer further added to the solo queue oppression- because then you also couldn't tell a teammate to finish the last 20% of your gen that you were working on before you got pulled up on.

And again, as far as the commonality of either build, that's definitely personal experience- both as killer and as a survivor when I played solo queue, I rarely tended to see DS+UB (my swf doesn't use that build, so I definitely never saw it there!) but I would say that a very high percentage of killers that I went up against used Ruin+Undying(+Tinkerer) pre nerf.

I kind of wish devs would release a stats list of what perks were most commonly used+what perk builds were most common, tbh

Never let the other team determine your loadout or playstyle, that doesn't happen in any other team based multiplayer game I've been in, I don't see why it should here. If you get insults, take it as a sign that you frustrated them. Run all the "2nd chance" perks you want, do the gens you want, do the totems you want. Play to win.

Unfortunately no, here in page 32 of the codex of random entitled phrases and tired platitudes, by Mr. Any-idiot-on-the-web-who-didn't-go-to-college, it says that "DS+Unbreakable is against the law and will be punished by toxic endgame chat, you baby survivor hard carry ez perk no skill noob."

In all seriousness, it wasn't that toxic in the first place. The only people who were complaining about it were people who expressly tunneled, whether inadvertent or not. Sometimes, I find a guy who you just happened to have unhooked, and I really don't want to tunnel them, but I can't just let them go, but obviously that wouldn't be a great usage of your time. Even then, it's just one survivor who I can't chase at the moment, and even if I down them, it's still stalling them out. Force them to get rid of their unbreakable token early.

Fair enough