Tunneling mess
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People aren't running it because it NEVER helped against tunneling. And now, killer mains see "DS nerf = I can tunnel". At least before the nerf, they had the fear of DS keeping most killers from tunneling.
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In my experience killer tunnel less when they see a obsession. But i cant say that for sure bc i never ask killer why they didnt tunnel me.
When a killer tunnels me, he cant pick me up. When i get slugged, my teammates pick me up even when i play solo. When he takes the ds, i reach a loop and start looping him. My problem with tunneling is that i can do nothing and the match ends too quick. DS helps me with that.
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Yeah that’s true, but that’s having an obsession in the game is helping against tunnelling. Not DS.
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Yh but if ds wouldnt exist, a obsession would not help against tunneling.
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Still DS, just benefiting more from the passive ability than you are the active one.
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Because my original comment was talking about the fact that Old DS and New DS are the same.
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If it didn't help, why run it?
Unlessss, it wasn't to prevent tunneling.
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People aren't going to get it, but you're right. This DS nerf didn't change much for SWF DS abuse but it 100% nerfed it to hell for solo. SWF is still going to use that minute to harass a killer and deny him the hook by hitting him with the last seconds of DS, but that's not really happening in solo queue LOL
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That’s not the same thing as getting value from equipping a perk. Blood pact makes an obsession.
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How exactly isn't it? You equipped the perk, you benefitted. Had you not have equipped the perk, you would have not seen any benefit. That simple.
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So you stopped taking decisive strike. Do you want to be tunnelled? Because this is how you get tunnelled...
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I'm gonna take all these stories with a grain of salt because all but one of my games had DS in it. I really don't see any difference.
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You do realise you can get an obsession without equipping DS right? Or was you not aware of this
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Of course. Doesn't change anything however.
Again, you equipped the perk, you got the benefit. Sure, you could have used a different one for nearly the same result, and you would have still benefitted, that doesn't mean you don't benefit if you equip ds, just that you have more ways to gain that passive benefit than just equipping ds.
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So you clearly agree that the passive benefit you are on about isn’t gained by just equipping DS. It’s gained by having an obsession in the game which can be done in many other ways.
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I never claimed it was exclusive to ds, just that you received a benefit. There are multiple ways to get an obsession, which is why there is no need for BHVR to make an obsession default in every match. If Survivors want there to be an obsession, they have plenty of ways to make that happen, all thanks ultimately to the power of DS.
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Yeah but this whole thing started with the effectiveness of equipping the perk DS. So you agree that equipping the perk DS is pointless in most games?
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Not at all. It's a 5s stun against a killer who finds you right after you are unhooked. That alone makes it a good perk, the passive bonus of having an obsession to make the killer think twice about how he plays is just icing on the cake. The active ability is in fact, so good that it created the entire passive benefit of survivors running obsession perks. I can't think of a single other perk that has done the same. I run it every Survivor match.
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"hard and soft
tunnelling"Interesting 😳
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I don't think DS has caused the surge, it's just that, like it or not, tunneling works. Even with a 5 second stun, tunneling works.
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And how often do you get to use the 5s stun with the new ds. Make an estimate as a %
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No idea, but anytime the killer isn't tunneling as a result of seeing the obsession, I still benefitted from having it.
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DS is as good against tunneling as it was before, not great in other words. Killer can eat DS and tunnel you down again (just happened in one game). Changes were needed definitely, but I can't believe they didn't even make DS to hide scratch marks.
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No you didn’t, you benefited from there being an obsession in the game. It wouldn’t have made a difference if you equipped DS or not if someone else had an obsession perk
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If.
Key word. If.
So I get the benefit myself by bringing the perk. Or I don't bring it and hope one of my teammates makes up for it.
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Cuz it dosent let you to do a LOT of things while in chase, so you will need to chose, play like an bot? or do the best option
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But I’m still right that equipping DS does nothing in most games.
The benefits you mention can be gained without equipping it.
So in other words it’s pretty pointless to bring DS in most games.
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And survivors like that were worthless to have on a team. Freeloaders as I called them.
Some killers did not care and they would take the gamble. They see you have no DS and it's an easy tunnel, out of the game within the first 2 minutes. Survivors that didn't want to use a perk slot for DS but just leeched off the obsession indicator being in the game where useless.
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So by your logic Inner Strength does nothing. After all you can use self heal or get healed by a teammate, so it's worthless, right?
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I’ll give you a chance to think about what you just said.
When you figure out that it has no relevance I might reply.
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....
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I play 50/50 survivor, and I'm a 100% boosted Red Rank. When I'm getting chased, I'm usually ... running. And vaulting. Trying to loop. Dropping pallets. And more running. I can't do any of those things anymore? That's troubling if true.
Since when I'm actually being chased by the killer, those are the things I do -- what are the "LOT" of things that I can't do in a chase? Other than one-tapping a gen (which is a mechanic that shouldn't exist -- there should be required at least a couple of seconds of work on a gen to hault regression after a kick), what are you doing in a chase that I'm not that you now won't be able to do?
It can't be actually working on a gen, or breaking a totem, or rescuing someone off of a hook -- the first two, you can't do if you're actually in a legitimate chase (at least I can't, and even the Red Rank survivors I run across as killer aren't doing those things either if I'm running them around a loop or across a dead zone), and the last thing is just a terribly unsafe rescue, unless you're running BT and are willing to do a 1-1 trade-off with a hooked teammate (since, arguably, the best thing is to lead the killer away from your fellow hooked teammate, so someone else can pull them down, rather than risk half the team or more down and slugged). You can't be healing either -- unless you're popping a syringe, healing in a chase to full health even with a souped up med-kit means you're looping the killer pretty successfully, and if you're doing that well in chase, you're either going to lose the killer entirely, or that 60 seconds of DS protection will be long gone by the time you're eventually downed (which means your team should have gotten a TON of work done on gens -- which is literally how survivors win matches, by someone dragging the killer into drawn-out chases where they can't down someone and the rest of the team finishes gens).
So, while actually IN CHASE, what are all of these things you could do before you can't do now? As someone who legitmately needs to improve their survivor skills, I'd like to know.
Post edited by ChiSoxFan11 on2 -
I've never had someone make a meme just to stawman an argument, it's a brand new day.
You claim ds is useless just because you can get an obsession using other perks. That appears to be your entire argument.
I never said ds was op, or to "git gud" I merely pointed out that the fact you can use DS solely for the obsession benefit means it is not useless, as you claimed. Is it going to proc in every single match? No, are you going to get Slugged in every single match? Also no, yet people still bring ub for the times they are. If you don't see the use, don't bring it. Won't affect me either way.
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Tunneling just needs to be looked at in general by BHVR. It's stupid that the only things deterring tunneling are good will and the fear of the survivor MAYBE having two perks (BT, DS) that extend chases off hook. There should really be a non-DS base kit tunnel deterrent.
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There is. It's called teamwork and is available for free on all Survivors, doesn't even take a perk slot, just people willing to work as a team to win a game.
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Have you actually played this game? Like, seriously? Have you not seen survivors teabbag eachother? Suicide on first hook? DC on first down? This isnt a 4v1. Its a (1v1v1v1)v1
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Too bad there's no patch for human stupidity. I'm sorry you get ######### teammates, really I am, but I don't want a game balanced around the stupidest players.
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I used to run DS most of the time, I find it doesn't really work as well as it used to.
I'm still being sandbagged left right and center 😂
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well dude they wanted easy game now they getting them.
it bad word on both sides now. not just killer.
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Sure your argument works for coordinated SWFs but regardless of the match result the amount of people I see just get run down off hook and removed around 3-4 gens left just because they are the "weak link" in solo queue is just wrong. They barely get to play the game and survivor queues are so bad at night that they probably wait like 7-10 minutes for that experience.
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It's ALMOST like NOW we don't have entitled survivors running around with a full minute of protection. This change was really good, ######### DS and there's still more that are just as bad. No Killer perk imo is stronger than most survivor perks, even, NOED. You can just turn it off, i wish the killer could turn off surv perks
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Why aren't you helping them when you see them get tunneled? You don't have to be in any sort of swf to see a teammate getting chased and either try a save or at least to take the protection hit so they can make the next loop.
Survivor queues are long because there are less and less people willing to play killer. Balancing the game around the worst Survivors would be the best way to make sure that trend continues unabated.
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I dunno what to tell you, Get use to it. Like it or Not Tunneling And Camping are Legit strategies the same as Looping and doing your objectives quickly.
You don't have to like it, but if it's such an issue play Killer instead, that way you can't be "Tunneled"
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do you think killers without ruin, pgtw, b&c and tinkerer would have more than 1k? These perks kill more survs than 99% of killers
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It's really not as simple as you make it sound, depending on the map and killer of course. Not all killers are body blockable nor do they have to pick you up upon downing you. Killers like Nurse, Huntress, Spirit, Bubba will multi slug or easily get around you if you try to stop them.
And yes I'm fully aware of why the queues are bad and it's why I play killer more often than not. I'm not asking to balance it around the worst survivors, as many killers (myself included) do just fine without tunneling. I just want them to add deterrents that prevent the killer from trying to remove them from the game immediately after their long wait time. Something even as simple as rehooking the same survivor within x seconds won't jump to the next hook state would go a long way in giving non-SWF players an infinitely more enjoyable experience.
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"tunneling and camping are legit strategies the same as looping"... big oof
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That's like saying that if survivors hide for several minutes in a match, that you're not getting corrupt value because they never attempted to finish to do generators early game. You got value, it's just not the maximum possible value. Depending on how much the animation of escaping in, we're talking about 16-20m of distance, which should take the average killer 30-35 seconds to close if all the survivor does is hold shift+w, not even counting reaching loops. If you're annoyed at tunneling, and want to punish the killer for chasing you off of hook, DS is the way to go. Oh yeah, and it's a disgusting endgame perk still since it's a guaranteed escape if the gate's 99%.
DS needed this change. If you look back on the wiki originally, when it was a flat second-chance perk it could be mitigated by enduring, and skill check builds could counter it. Ever since it became a "anti-tunnel perk" the perks killers could bring to counter it no longer could, but it got that ridiculous timer with 0 context causing it to potentially be better than the earlier iterations since it was still basically a second chance perk, but lacking any counters. This also caused it to effectively be an insanely powerful slowdown perk in favor for the survivors since the killer would be forced to slug even if it wasn't the best scenario to. DS needed this change, and good riddance. I can see some elements that could be changed (like self-healing not canceling it), but yeah, it's still a strong perk. It's just not in the category of "so stupidly powerful, a team of 3-4 with it would have to be stupid to loose."
That's not just tunneling, but BHVR's flawed design process. Core issue with game? Sell a perk that deals with the flaw instead of changing the base mechanics of the game gradually as the problems appear. Not enough perk slots for this to be dealt with? Want unique builds that don't cause you to loose because of said core game flaws? Too bad. Other than exhaustion perks and iron will, survivor meta perks tend to be the ones that deal with core issues. The killer meta perks tend to be slowdown or slugging perks because of the gen vs chase time issues. The exception for killer being information perks to give themselves more map awareness.
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“ it's still a strong perk”. No, it’s not. It’s a good perk, but you can find many perks better than ds now
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If DS dos not exist, it's entirely plausible for a killer to just immediately attempt to down you straight off of the hook and rehook you, which is much faster than chasing down a healthy unhooker, and potentially causes someone to leave the game early, making it easier to juggle the team. Simply by punishing this play style, DS is very much strong. It just can't carry you victory against killers that know how to capitalize on your mistakes anymore.
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I play solo-queue mostly - Completely altruistic build (aside from Lithe).
I protect my teammates, heal them up (which also benefits me), and just have a good time, usually, regardless of how my teammates or the killer play.
Crazy, I know.
Random aside....been getting really good returns on Second Wind....even though it falls apart due to tunneling/bad saves - Guess I'm just lucky ;3
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