Blight is 115% but Trickster isn't? odd decision.
If you draw the comparisons, Blight has a power that can be used in an array of situations to cut off the survivors movements and land lethal hits. The reason Blight is 115% ms, despite having amazing mobility and chase potential, is because he can't use his dash in every situation to secure hits. His power does have physical limits, so it makes sense to allow him to down survivors in the standard way in situations where his power is near impossible to use effectively.
The way I see it, Tricksters power is a pressure tool and something to take advantage of when a survivor is vulnerable (animation lock, out in the open etc.). You cannot use his power in every situation. He is slowed and the recoil makes it even more difficult. Knives that look like they should connect but don't and vice versa. He has several issues, but the one that strikes me the hardest is why they made him 110%. Had his knives downed faster than they do, then yes, I can see it. With how long it takes to down survivors in two health states however, I don't see 110% making any sense. Deathslinger makes sense, Huntress makes sense, Spirit makes sense...Trickster, not really.
They either need to make QoL adjustments to Main Event and boost his movement speed to 115%, or buff his knives (and Main Event).
Comments
-
Huntress - ranged - 110
Deathslinger - ranged - 110
Trickster - ranged - 110
it makes sense right?
5 -
It would be kinda broken if you could easily catch up to survivors WHILST having a ranged attack. As to why no ranged killer is ever 115.
1 -
It would make sense, except his power isn't really TRUE ranged attack. Sure you can hit targets from afar but its like plague....you have to hit them a dozen times for it to do anything. Maybe they made him 110 because unlike plague his base power can actually down people without the need of an extra power up.
9 -
Blight being 115% makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that Plague, a ranged-based killer that is WAY more powerful than Trickster, is a 115% killer. Hell, Plague would still be decent as a 110% speed killer. (Nothing against Plague btw she's in a perfect place rn)
2 -
Plague Ranged -115%
Clown Ranged(Non damaging) -115%
You're point?
Edit:
Plague is already a weak killer whose lack of mobility already crimples her ability to get to corrupt purge fountains to use half of her power. So no she would be prebuff wraith tier of terrible at 110%.
9 -
110% movement speed does make sense it still is a damaging ranged ability, but the trickster slowing down when using the ability doesn't since you need to keep throwing the knives to get that damage done.
3 -
yes but that is also where the balance comes in (not saying he should not be tweaked here btw), in principle his hits are far easier and guarantheed vs a huntress, which also is kinda why he is not really fun to play or play against, not a lot of counterplay to the barrage of knives coming your way.
Huntress, hard to hit target, big result
Trickster, easier to hit target, small result (aka requires building up).
0 -
Pyramid head - ranged, 115%
10 -
Disagree with the points about Clown and Plague.
As you said, Clown is a non-damaging "ranged" killer. That's literally why he's 115%. His power isn't that he has range, but he can afflict negatives on the survivors and positives on himself with setups that he can create through throwing bottles at range.
Plague does not always have lethal vomit. Catching up to injured survivors who are broken from sickness as well as catching up to healthy survivors and vomiting is something she needs to do, which is why she's 115.
Huntress, Slinger, and Trickster all have constant ranged lethality, which is why they are 110. They should all be designed in a way where their power is oppressive enough in a chase to warrant being at a slower speed.
0 -
Plague's bile is non lethal unless you spend time going to a fountain to get the powerup (temporarly, aka balance)
Clown's bottles are again, not lethal.
---------
Blight can chain rush attacks in one-ish direction but its only an M1
Billy can only do 1 rush attack in one-ish direction at a time but its an insta down
Oni can rush with a lot of control and has an insta down but has to build up the power
this is where the balance plays a part in the design, that is the point.
0 -
I don’t see the comparison. Plague usually gets her power a few times times a game at most, potentially only once if the survivors don’t cleanse at all.
She also loses it if she gets pallet stunned, which is something I feel like a lot of people forget. You can just camp a pallet around a corner and completely nullify her power.
Dedicated servers also make the puke feel horrible to use as you watch it literally pass through people with no effect.
2 -
The only truly odd decision. PH is the only outlier, every other killer with an innate ranged attack that can injure and down survivors (note how I said both "innate" and "injure and down", so Plague doesn't count because her ranged attack that can actually down survivors is not innate) is 110%.
1 -
Plague makes sense because Vile Purge can't down survivors, while Corrupt Purge is a power up like Evil Within 3 or Blood Fury.
0 -
calling pyramid head ranged is pretty rediculous, he is the unique in between-er
0 -
You probably forgot to mention one thing - height. Slinger and Anna are tall, Trickster is average. This makes it even more difficult to hit with his knives, even considering the fact that when he takes aim he moves slower than the survivors.
0 -
Plague plays pretty similarly to Trickster tho. Vile Purge to injure a survivor, it probably takes a faster amount of time to injure a survivor with Vile Purge than the knives from Trickster. And then you can just M1.
Trickster loses his Main Event after getting stunned.
0 -
I find it more funnier that a literall Clown is faster than a young k-pop guy.
I guess it makes sense from the balance perspective, but otherwise.. This just doesn't look right.
0 -
Great point.
The thing is Tricksters ranged weapon also isn't innate. It only becomes lethal after 7 non lethal hits.
It's not that much different from plague. You use your non lethal ranged attack to later recieve a lethal one.
Difference is that Plague's progresses automaticly after 1 hit, it last a minute, requires survivors to activate it and you need to collect it
Where with trickster you lose progress when out of chase and the lethality is only for 1 hit. But activates on it's own and you don't need to collect it.
Other then that it's the same principle of non-lethal ranged attack to set up for a lethal one.
So it doesn't really make sense plague is 115 and tricky 110
1 -
The thing is Tricksters ranged weapon also isn't innate. It only becomes lethal after 7 non lethal hits.
I don't think you know what "innate" means.
Vile Purge cannot down survivors, only Corrupt Purge can do that. Corrupt Purge is not innate to Plague, it's something she has to activate.
The Trickster's knives can down survivors (after a certain number of hits) and they are always with him (except when he needs to reload, but that's the same as Huntress). He doesn't need to activate a special ability to be able to down survivors.
1 -
Except his power is useless at long range, you can only secure successive hits at relatively close range, about 15 meters or less. This actually makes him more similar to Plague, Pyramid Head or even Doctor. Using his power to hit or pressure the survivor at vulnerable junctures, pallet drops, bottle necks, etc. Those three killers are all 115%.
0 -
Deathslingers range is 18m...
0 -
The only difference between trickster and plague in that regard is plague's lethal hit has a name and trickster doesn't.
You still need to activate the lethal hit of trickster by hitting the survivor x amount of times until their laceration bar turns red. Before that it isn't lethal hence it's not innate
Just because you don't have to press a button doesn't mean you don't have to activate it. Plague can also get corrupt purge if all fountains are corrupt. Does that mean her red puke is innate after all? No, cause there is still something that needs to activates it.
I know that it is a bit of a weird case because the activation process is the same as the actual reward but tricksters lethality by definition isn't innate.
If i throw a knife at a survivor they will not get damaged unless enough knives hit before that. So the lethality isn't innate to the knives. Something needs to activate it. That being the laceration meter reaching a certain point
1 -
Blight power is only useable at cerain loops, its primarily for mobility or hitting a survivor out in the open. At a lot of loops its required to go for the M1. Most if not all 110% killers have some form of anti-loop or ability to bypass pallets entirely. 110 vs 115 has no actual difference in overall map mobility, it pretty much exclusively affects looping, usually allowing one extra full loop.
Problem with Trickster is that his power is only useful at low wall loops, like the boxes or junk piles in mcmillan and azarovs. He also slows even more when using his knives making it practically unusable in places like shack. While I don't think making him 115% would have any effect on his viabiltiy (his power would still be trash) I see no reason for him to really be 110 either.
1 -
Yet he only needs to land a single hit, not 8. It's impossible to hit 8 knives at range because of the insane recoil. You need to catch up to the survivor, and get close enough so that while throwing, you have enough time to keep them relatively close while you slow down to 64% speed!
If they break LoS, you're screwed. It's like playing Plague, and having them automatically cleanse the moment you lose them.
0 -
The projectile speed can actually make it relatively easy to dodge them on reaction too. This is something that actually makes him more enjoyable to play against then Deathslinger in the chase.
But its a problem for the player because they're also fighting A. A slower move speed that may screw them if you break LOS B. pretty ridicolous recoil C. risking getting 6-7 hits and then losing sight of you and having your meter decay. Having to fight your own power to use it feels horrible.
1 -
Then you just misunderstand how his power works to begin with.
It's more like if Shock Therapy could injure and down survivors. You don't "activate the lethal hit", you just keep hitting survivors until they become injured, the same way you shock survivors until their Madness tiers up with the Doctor. Each shock increases Madness by some amount, even if it doesn't make it immediately tier up.
EDIT: I'm referring to how Madness originally worked, when the Doctor had his two stances.
Post edited by Orion on1 -
Does Madness drop off by itself in a matter of seconds?
0 -
If it doesn't tier up, Madness used to drop off by itself. Takes longer than the lacerations, true, but that's not the point. I was simply showing the similarities between (old) Madness and lacerations.
0 -
And that means that the madness tier increase is not innate to the static shock. It only happens after it activates by filling up a meter
Just like with the tricksters knives.
I am fully aware what the word innate means and I know how the tricksters power works.
I can understand where the difference in viewpoint comes from as it isn't cut and dry "press button to activate new ability" but we can have this discussion without questioning the others intelligence every post
1 -
I said the power capable of injury (and putting survivors in the dying state) was innate to the killer, though. You're making it about whether or not the power can immediately injure survivors and conflating that with whether or not the injury is innate to the power. Those are just very different things.
For the record, knowledge is not intelligence. As an example, I'd forgotten that Madness no longer decreases by itself, hence the edits to my comments. That doesn't make me stupid, it just means I forgot.
0 -
110%
Huntress ranged attacks have the same wind-up time but do insta-damage
Deathslinger insta-shot and stop you from keep moving until hit/break
Hag teleports to the trap and insta-hit
115%
Pyramid head can do insta-damage in any loop where 110% killers does but moving faster (weird)
Plague have a free injuring power, who don't give the survivor a speed boost
Clown/Freddy/Doctor can trap survivors in small loops as any ranged killer does
Trickster sucks, a lot, play him is like play Huntress with bugged hatches who don't do damage, takes the same time to hit them, but more to damage them....
He need a lot of work... like:
- Making him a 115% speed killer.
- Tap M2 should throw 1 blade, hold it throw more.... had to press M1 again feels akward.
- Blades Ricochet in the environment once basekit.
- Main Event stay able to activate by pressing Control forever (like the Oni Demon Fury).
- When fully charged, the killer and the survivors will hear a sound warning (like with the Oni, Plague, Myers fully charged powers)
- Maybe adding an animation of him making a cool pose with scenario lights pointing on him while activating as a negative effect of being able to choose when to use it????
- When fully charged, the killer and the survivors will hear a sound warning (like with the Oni, Plague, Myers fully charged powers)
- During the Main Event:
- Be able to Aim & throw infinite blades with rate significantly increased at fully 115% speed, but not forced to... so you can pick up survivors and open lockers.
- Terror Ratius tremendusly increased.
- Survivors inside the Terror Ratius trigger Killer Instinct.
- Blade-damage (Laceration) should stay until the survivor makes a new healing interaction (like Mending/Snap of madness/Wake up/etc...).
- Do objectives (repairing/healing others/making bones/etc.) while affected by the blade-damage increase it and even down yourself.
- Addons who affect the decay delay will increase the time takes to do that healing interaction for each blade hit. (like the mending Deathslinger/Legion addons).
- addons who affect the decay delay out of blades increase the self-increased blade-damage while doing objectives.
1 -
Ugh forum ate my post
Yeah i was more refering to the blades not innitially being lethal.
I guess it depends on how you look at it.
0 -
Trickster is unique in the fact that when you injure a survivor via knifes they don't get the speed boost.
0 -
Amount of time you have to invest to injure someone with power is enough to get huge progress on gens.
I know i'm not the best killer in the world, but Trickster's power is obviously worst in the game. I can't think about any other killer that have to put so much time to make survivor injured. Plague and Deathslinger can do it much much faster even if they have simmilar problems.
1 -
they get a speed boost......... what makes you think they don't????
wft
and im more concern the fact Pyramid head has 115% movement speed, has a range attack, and ignore collisions....
but .... trickster has 110%.... and has to hit multiples times.... with small proyectiles... who are impossible to hit more than 1 in the mayority of loops...
0 -
Trickster is basicly Plague with extra steps, a far worse power burst and too much counterplay.
Plague is 115% and Trickster is should also be 115%.
It's funny because makeing him 115% would still not nearly be enough to make him viable.
That's how far off he is from the rest of the killers.
0
