Am I the only one who thinks regressing gens is a joke?
Currently, according to the "Official DBD Wiki", gens regress at a speed of 0.25 c / s, which means that if a gen is at 99.9%, it will take about 320 seconds (5 minutes and 20 seconds) to return to 0%.
How is it possible that this has never been changed? Having to go to a gen which may be on the other side of the map and wait for the animation to hit it for 2 seconds to need to wait eons to regress it I see it a brutality. That's why Ruin is such a great perk, because (aside from causing gens to regress by themselves), it TRIPLES the speed at which it regresses, leaving survivors to WORRY about a regressing gen.
I'm not saying that the regression speed should be the same as Ruin. What they should do is increase the regression rate between 0.45 or 0.55 c / s, because the current regression rate is a joke. Having to go to the other end of the map, wait for the 2-second animation and have a regression speed of 0.45 or 0.55 c / s will not only make the regression stop being useless, but survivors will start to worry by the regression of the generators, making them have to make other kinds of decisions instead of saying (oh, the killer hit the gen, I'ma get my mate off the hook, heal him, break a totem and then I'm going to get the gen, It has only been reduced by 8% and that amount is repaired in 8 seconds hehe).
TL;DR: The current rate of regression is a joke. They have to increase it (not like it's Ruin, but at least increase it) because it doesn't currently inflict any kind of pressure.
DBD Wiki page: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Generators
Comments
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Base regression is the way it is to prevent killers from taking the game hostage in 3 gen situations. Survivors should always be faster at progressing the objective than the killer is at regressing it as long as all of the team is alive.
Killers are suppose to gain pressure by downing survivors quickly. Not by regressing the objective indefinitely. The perks that regress generator by large amount have heavy restrictions such as Pop(11max total hooks) and Hex:ruin being a hex. Maybe they'll release a perk like pop goes weasel that works off hooks with functionality to increase base passive regression speed on the next gen(s) regressed but it should not be default.
far too much chance for holding game hostage otherwise.
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I havent kicked a gen without say pop for years. Just not worth a 2.5 second kick for something which survivors can undo in 1 tap tbh. Also always run ruin because base regression is ass anyway.
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Mostly agreed but the gen tap is honestly stupid 2.5 seconds of a kick for something a survivor can undo even in chase by taping m2. For isntance survivors have literally tapped overcharge mid chase before and hit the skillcheck. A survivor should need to be on a gen for half a second to stop regression imo.
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No, I also think it sucks. I think it should be buffed to ruin lvl 3 speed and take 3 seconds of "jumpstarting" the generator before it can be repaired again.
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The difference is the survivor has to sit there for 60 seconds and hold M1 the entire duration to put in 60 charges. The killer only has to kick it and then walk off and let nature take it's course. Survivors have to put in so much more effort on the generator that they deserve the speed difference. Maybe killers should have it regress at 100% speed but they have to stand there and hold m1 on the gen to regress it that fast.
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Give a watered down version of overcharge as base kit. At least make it so survivor's have to hit a skill check to stop the regression.
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So if I understood your comment correctly, currently regression only works when you have 3 gens together? And how exactly does that work? Because if I put a gen in regression, they are going to put it in another generator, and if I put that other generator in regression, they will try to repair another, and taking into account that the regression speed is a joke and the repair speed, in comparison, it is much higher, there will come a time that they will be able to repair one of the generators, especially if you are a killer with low mobility.
Whether the regression is to hold three generators or simply to reduce the progression of random generators, its current state is abnormally low, and I don't think it works in any case, simply it doesn't apply any type of pressure.
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Just imagine if Ruin was basekit
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oh god no. I think tru3 was talking about base ruin. Which might...be decent? Idrk. I mean gens naturally regressing at their normal rate but naturally might work? Idrk personally. Killer doesnt have to go around kicking pallets all the dang time to no avail without pop or something.
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If it was I don't think I'd make them regress extremely fast like Ruin does at the moment, maybe like a medium speed regression would be fine.
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Like i said base ruin like level 1 ruin where gens regress as if theyd been kicked but just passively.
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Oh sure, the survivors have to put a lot more effort, they have to stand on a generator maintaining M1, while the killer only has to control 7 generators distributed throughout the map, most of them away from others (especially if the survivors don't repair gens in a row), apply pressure so that 3 engines aren't repaired at the same time if you are in a chase, prioritize certain generators, etc...
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The current rate of regression is a joke. They have to increase it
Nothing could be more true.
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I don't agree with the entirety of the OP, however I do think that a survivor tapping a gen should take say ... 0.5s before it stops regression. A microtap cancelling out a 2.5s killer action seems a bit low, but it shouldn't have to be too long either. Just enough that you have to actually stop for that short period rather than tap it on the fly.
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Take surge or opression and you can make 3 - 4 gens regress at once with 1 button it's disgusting. When will survivors get a perk that starts multiple gens going at the same time?
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I was chasing a survivor only for them to tap the generator for like a second to stop regressing.
the entire time I'm thinking "am I a joke to you"
get rid of gen tapping
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Sluzzy? It's you? Tell me, in what situation would Oppression and Surge work as you say? According to you, they are "disgusting" perks because they cause 3 or more generators to regress. Tell me, what makes you think that 3 or more generators are being repaired? Can't there be 3 survivors in a single generator, or two survivors in one and the other survivor in another generator? Or if there are actually 3 generators being repaired (1 survivor in each generator, not counting the supposed survivor you are following), what makes you think that the survivors are going to fail the Oppression skillcheck or that they will not touch the generator when Surge regress generators?
You don't even have the assurance that the perks will work. With Oppression if they success the skillcheck, it becomes useless and on top of it has an incredible 80 second cooldown, and Surge has a 40 second cooldown, but it only affects generators that are 32 meters away and only activates if the survivor that you have knocked down you have done it with M1 (so it's useless on killers like Huntress, Demo with M2, Hillbilly with chainsaw, Leatherface with chainsaw, etc.).
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I agree with all of this, but I still think the fundemental chase/gen math is off.
We REALLY don't want 'sustained' regression to be strong in the basekit, because then tri-gens would be comical, but I can't help but feel like maybe there should be a 'basekit pop' that can be banked up, with the perk upgrading it, to reward killers for winning chases more with anti-tempo.
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Its not suppose apply any pressure. Pressure is putting survivors on hooks and getting survivors onto their 3rd hook state. you cannot do generators if your dead.
Fundamental chase time/gen time is off because of safe loop design. The fact that over 60% of the pallets when dropped by the survivor are forced breaks when survivor properly plays them and sheer abundance of them is what make chases last so long. You could argue that killers power are suppose give killers an unfair advantage to mitigate these problems, You can see how this goes very wrong with killers when they are poorly balanced such as Current Trickster, so while Killers like Spirit have a fair game, other killers with lesser effective powers struggle. Luckily, few survivors are able to utilize loops effective so the problem is not often showcased very much or at all.
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So... on the surface, yes base regression looks pretty bad. However... consider the following 2 scenarios.
- Killer has 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 1 going for rescue, 1 doing gens. Overall, the Survivor team is gaining 1 Charge per Second.
- Killer has 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 1 going for rescue, 1 doing gens, but the Killer has 2 gens regressing. Overall the Survivor team is gaining 0.5 Charges per Second.
Killer #2 is using a base mechanic to literally cut the Survivor's progress in half, and if they're able to keep that pace, they'll have twice as much time to kill the Survivors as Killer #1 does. That's... really not too shabby. Not even a little shabby honestly. Now I do think gen tapping is kinda silly... but I don't hate it. It does make it so the Killer has to think about whether kicking is worth it. However, at the very minimum, Overcharge skill checks should behave like standard skill checks when Survivors let go of the gen. Overcharge needs a buff anyway and the Survivors doing skill checks via telekinesis is really dumb.
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You're not really supposed to kick gens. It's a mechanic used to facilitate other mechanics that come from perks, such as Overcharge, Surveillance or Pop.
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I'm a killer main these days but I agree. New Ruin is the only killer perk I absolutely hate playing against. It was one of the things that killed solo for me. At least with old Ruin you made progress, just slower. New Ruin deletes generators and it's really boring to play against. If I go against ruin/undying on a map like lerys or midwich where totems are up forever I'm not gonna lie I give up on hook. Such a boring perk.
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If gen pressure is an issue for you, start using Pop. At red ranks, most killers are running it. Oppression & ruin are both good as well.
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Agreed. There is a reason why Old Ruin lasted for years. It was a very good perk and with it skill checks actually demanded skill. Besides, it was one of the most effective counters against gen-rushing..
New Ruin is strong, but it is not that interesting to use. And it is not fun to play against, in my opinion.
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Why not just run PGTW? I can’t remember the last time I ran a build without PGTW unless I’m using Hag.
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If they just made it so you have to work on a gen for at least 3-5 seconds to stop regression, it would solve a big issue with gen kicking.
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Maybe it's time to change? Currently applying pressure with the vast majority of killers against a SWF (or directly against survivors with a certain intellect) is incredibly difficult, having new ways of applying pressure would especially be appreciated by killers with low mobility.
Maybe I don't understand the definition of pressure, but I think it refers to the ability to make survivors make certain decisions, make chases, protect gens, set traps against survivors, etc.
To me, the normal thing isn't to hook someone and start a chase before they rescue the one on the hook, but even if you start a chase before they get the other off the hook, they can go to the regressing generator (or the one that is repairing it at the time) and rush it while the other is in chase.
Even taking a full 1 minute (60 seconds) between rescuing someone from the hook, healing them and returning to the gen, it would only reduce 15% of the total progression, the equivalent of 15 seconds repairing if it is a single survivor (almost half in case of two survivors)
I use Pop, but Pop only allows you to use it 11 times (11 hooks) and on top of that you have to hook someone, and as soon as you finish a chase, they have been able to easily repair 2 generators.
Oppression seems like a very bad perk to me, the skillcheck against red rank players should not pose any problem and the regression that applies to the gens (in case there are no survivors repairing) is a joke, because it uses the base regression speed . At least that perk could regress gens 25-50% faster, but not even that.
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Kicking a gen would feel less of a waste of time if a generator needed a skill check to start back up again instead of just a micro-tap.
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i asked that to almo once in his stream, he said he didnt care and thought was perfect as it is. so yeah, there u have it. enjoy.
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I still think Fire up and Brutal Strength should increase regression speed.
BS making your 100% go up to like 150%.
Fire up can give you 8% per stack
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Just pointing out Ruin doesn't triple regression, it doubles it. It's "at 200%" not "an additional 200%" or in other words, it's +100% not +200%. Which is still only 1/2 of 1 survivor in terms of time when there's 4 of them.
But yes base regression is a complete joke along with gen tapping. It should at least take as long as the killer takes to kick it to stop the regression.
Base regression is only ~8% of what 3 survivors can put out (since you will hopefully be occupying one of them) if no one stops the gen regression. So even with ruin you're just doing ~16% compared to the time their making if no one stops the regression the entire time.
They can do 3 gens from 0 to 100 and you'll only regress 25% of 1 gen or 50% with ruin.
If I mathed correctly at least. In case your wondering about 4 survivors on gens it'd be 6% and 12% instead.
Ruin's saving grace is that you don't have to kick the gen yourself.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
The problem isnt regress speed. The problem is survivor can 0.1sec tap in exchange of your 2.5sec kick.
Add start up animation of at least 2sec before actual progressing.
That would fix both gen kick problem and soft slowdown gen by default. Image you push 2 survivors on a Gen to run away, you just force them losing 4sec on start up animation.
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