Should Devs handicap SWF's players since they break the game with voice communication?
Title. How would that Idea be?
Whenever I feel tired and not trying hard, I just dodge SWF lobbies. It's not their playstyle that is annoying to me but mostly the voice communication advantage just makes every experience as killer worse. That feature wasn't the point of this game at all.
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To add to the above post, not all SWF use coms and think how it would just hurt streamers engaging with their communities as well. Secondly, the devs did say that SWF was an intended feature and the fact it wasn't was a common misconception.
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@EntityDispleased said:
At this point they should just add voice comms in game and buff killers all the way. There's no way around swf and if the devs try and come close to changing that up they'd risk losing a big chunk of their not so big playerbase.But if you buff killers "all the way" new and casual players will have it a lot of harder. I don't want any hardcore punishment but rather some changes to make it more challenging for SWF players. It can be balanced in some way.
Also not all swfs are hardcore tryhards, some just want to have fun with friends and getting punished for wanting to have fun doesn't sound right to me.
You always have edge as SWF player, whether you try hard or not. Your playstyle is up to you.
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@JxshHxrvey said:
To add to the above post, not all SWF use coms and think how it would just hurt streamers engaging with their communities as well. Secondly, the devs did say that SWF was an intended feature and the fact it wasn't was a common misconception.not all SWF use coms
If you really believe what you just said then I have nothing to add. This just proofs, that you are delusional if you think that in 2018 there is no way of communication as 2,3,4 man premades.
would just hurt streamers engaging with their communities as well.
How? So are you saying the streamers are not able to talk to their community WHILE streaming? I mean some viewers can't talk, but so what? This is just up to the streamer not the game. The streamer is able to choose whether to talk to his viewers or not. Making a discord server is free. Just make a temporary discord lobby with password and viola. Stop making invalid and delusional arguments just to defend your point of view.
Secondly, the devs did say that SWF was an intended feature and the fact it wasn't was a common misconception.
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I'd have no lobbies if people stopped playing SWF.
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Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
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Yeah sure, let's break all the queues and have people just lobby dodge till they get the same room with each other.@HellDescent said:Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
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@Visionmaker said:
@HellDescent said:Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
Yeah sure, let's break all the queues and have people just lobby dodge till they get the same room with each other.
Yes this is what happened before and ppl would just lobby dodge until they got together with their friends. The killer complained about getting a lobby. If in fact the swf population has gone up you'll literally have no lobbies.
I've never dodged a lobby as a killer yet except for ping being excessive, not even 4 man swf at rank 1 and most of the time i did quite well.Oh sure i got destroyed in games but that happened to me in full solo q games as well.
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@Whateverthefuck said:
Title. How would that Idea be?Whenever I feel tired and not trying hard, I just dodge SWF lobbies. It's not their playstyle that is annoying to me but mostly the voice communication advantage just makes every experience as killer worse. That feature wasn't the point of this game at all.
Either that or ingame voice comms and balance the game around that
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I've mentioned this idea before and it always seems to get shot down, but I still don't fully understand why.
if they had an in-game comms system that operated by radius(only able to speak to/hear those close to you) it would fix a lot of the issue.
players couldn't convey information from across the map as easily, they would have to shut up when the killer is nearby (realistic), and it would open comms up for non-swf players as well.
yes there would be toxicity issues, but that's what a mute/report function would be used for.2 -
People would use third party ######### anywayAvariku said:I've mentioned this idea before and it always seems to get shot down, but I still don't fully understand why.
if they had an in-game comms system that operated by radius(only able to speak to/hear those close to you) it would fix a lot of the issue.
players couldn't convey information from across the map as easily, they would have to shut up when the killer is nearby (realistic), and it would open comms up for non-swf players as well.
yes there would be toxicity issues, but that's what a mute/report function would be used for.
The thing is the game needs a fair environment. Even if you face a swf 4man with coms but the map is balanced, you have the same chances in both sides. Swf might be better in regards of hook swarm in but that's it in my scenario.
Swf would be fine that way the problems comes up when a 1v1 scenario is so unbaanced in certain situations which is crazy in an asymmetrical game.
As mostly solo survivor I won't mind buff some m1 killer at all, the other way around actually! But I would stick to my idea that maps need to be well designed first
Just imagine changing 2 things that might look as straight up buffs, what difference can make. Remove red stain on killers and increase fov since it first person. It would outregiously buff the killer, the point I easy fixes doesn't exist but the devs often takes the lazy way to do so. Like vault changes instead of fixing the vaults positions and buildings designs4 -
Avariku said:I've mentioned this idea before and it always seems to get shot down, but I still don't fully understand why.
if they had an in-game comms system that operated by radius(only able to speak to/hear those close to you) it would fix a lot of the issue.
players couldn't convey information from across the map as easily, they would have to shut up when the killer is nearby (realistic), and it would open comms up for non-swf players as well.
yes there would be toxicity issues, but that's what a mute/report function would be used for.People claim it'd be too much like F13. Which I disagree with since they're two completely different things, with the whole beating the killer to a pulp aspect...Voice comms will certainly improve the solo survivor experience. I'd play solo survivor more if I could figure out what SWFs/solo survivors were thinking of doing.I just don't think killers should hear what survivors are saying. It *might* get overly toxic then.1 -
the only reason I want the killers to be able to hear it is for situations where a survivor accidentally gives up part of their plan because they were too stupid to stop talking when the heartbeat kicks in.Visionmaker said:Avariku said:I've mentioned this idea before and it always seems to get shot down, but I still don't fully understand why.
if they had an in-game comms system that operated by radius(only able to speak to/hear those close to you) it would fix a lot of the issue.
players couldn't convey information from across the map as easily, they would have to shut up when the killer is nearby (realistic), and it would open comms up for non-swf players as well.
yes there would be toxicity issues, but that's what a mute/report function would be used for.People claim it'd be too much like F13. Which I disagree with since they're two completely different things, with the whole beating the killer to a pulp aspect...Voice comms will certainly improve the solo survivor experience. I'd play solo survivor more if I could figure out what SWFs/solo survivors were thinking of doing.I just don't think killers should hear what survivors are saying. It *might* get overly toxic then.
killer comes up on two working on the gens and one says something like, "yea, terry is off looking for the hex totem while we finish this up"
or the killer loses his chase and starts to head back to a gen when he hears a survivor talking nearby, its immersion, the survivor should know to stay quiet when the killer is nearby.
is it vastly significant? no, but its a little detail to the game that I would like.0 -
I definitely agree that while the mechanic would be similar, they are two very different games at this point... yes, some killers have a hard time with some survivors... but if they really want to feel like the survivors are "too OP" they should go play f13 for a bit... they'll see how good they have it here.
(minus those sick cinematic kills, something I wish we had more of.)1 -
One fix for swf it make like perks on swf act like sets for a killer giving them a buff.
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I don't believe SWF should be handicapped.
Some people like the challenge of going against them.
Some people legit just want to have fun.
There's lots of reason to not handicap swf.
I still advocate marking the SWFs, or filtering them, however. Preferably the latter.
If not, add blood point bonuses depending on how many SWF participants the killer faces.
The general increase in efficiency from an SWF generally eats into what a killer can earn on top of adding frustration.
Like SWFs might just want to have fun, killer might want to play in the original spirit of the game (vs 4 solo) and not have to deal with the difficulty spike SWFs provide which can vary from moderate to concrete dicks.
Yeah, 4 solos can be tough, but it's not likely to be the same experience as an SWF mauling them.
It might increase lobby waits but SWFs will scare off low rank killers, be they new or just not wanting to face people depipping themselves to bully lower levels. Or using SWF and the poor match making to do the same.0 -
@Visionmaker said:
@HellDescent said:Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
Yeah sure, let's break all the queues and have people just lobby dodge till they get the same room with each other.
The number of people actually lobby dodging before SWF and the ones who were actually successful at it were very few.
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I'm fine with the game as it already is, which is catering to a more casual audience.
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@Avariku said:
the only reason I want the killers to be able to hear it is for situations where a survivor accidentally gives up part of their plan because they were too stupid to stop talking when the heartbeat kicks in.killer comes up on two working on the gens and one says something like, "yea, terry is off looking for the hex totem while we finish this up"
or the killer loses his chase and starts to head back to a gen when he hears a survivor talking nearby, its immersion, the survivor should know to stay quiet when the killer is nearby.is it vastly significant? no, but its a little detail to the game that I would like.
I understand. I think speaking with the killer nearby should garner some harsh penalties too. But I imagine that toxic players would just use it to taunt/flame killers on top of what they do now.
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@purebalance said:
@Visionmaker said:
@HellDescent said:Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
Yeah sure, let's break all the queues and have people just lobby dodge till they get the same room with each other.
The number of people actually lobby dodging before SWF and the ones who were actually successful at it were very few.
That's not the point. All of the players that want to play with friends would either lobby hop or just quit because of long queues, neither of which are desirable. Considering that at least 70% of our lobbies contain SWF, we don't need to butcher what we have with switcheroos/uninstallers.
We have a surplus of killer players and a lack of solo survivors. We do not need fewer survivors, including SWF. We do not need to nerf players that keep the game alive just to appease whiny killers that lobby dodge every hard match up anyway.
Playing with friends is more advantageous and fun, while the solo survivor experience is unbearable, unrewarding, and has not been significantly improved. This is the real problem.
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The one massive flaw in that idea: People will just do what the did in the beta.
You'd just notice a lot of survivors joining lobbies, backing out and re-queuing until they get into a lobby with their friends to circumvent the penalty, since the game would then be unable to detect if they're a group or not. And all the while, you would have killers sitting their watching the Musical Chairs World Championship, as one solo survivor sits there in their lobby legitimately playing the game as one four man squad after another joins, notices there's someone else in the lobby, and leaves.
This is why I feel it's better to bring solo survivors up to a SWF level and then balance around that.
Post edited by Peanits on6 -
@Peanits said:
The one massive flaw in that idea: People will just do what the did in the beta.You'd just notice a lot of survivors joining lobbies, backing out and re-queuing until they get into a lobby with their friends to circumvent the penalty, since the game would then be unable to detect if they're a group or not. And all the while, you would have killers sitting their watching the Musical Chairs World Championship, as one solo survivor sits there in their lobby legitimately playing the game as one four man squad after another joins, notices there's someone else in the lobby, and leaves.
This is why I feel it's better to bring solo survivors up to a SWF level and then balance around that.
Tbh I don't think people ever will do this since humans are naturally lazy but if they make the effort to rejoin lobbies just to have a slight advantage instead of just playing SWF I think they deserve it.
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Please don't make comms in game. The last thing I want to do is hear toxic people all day in addition to see them.2
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@Whateverthefuck said:
@Peanits said:
The one massive flaw in that idea: People will just do what the did in the beta.You'd just notice a lot of survivors joining lobbies, backing out and re-queuing until they get into a lobby with their friends to circumvent the penalty, since the game would then be unable to detect if they're a group or not. And all the while, you would have killers sitting their watching the Musical Chairs World Championship, as one solo survivor sits there in their lobby legitimately playing the game as one four man squad after another joins, notices there's someone else in the lobby, and leaves.
This is why I feel it's better to bring solo survivors up to a SWF level and then balance around that.
Tbh I don't think people ever will do this since humans are naturally lazy but if they make the effort to rejoin lobbies just to have a slight advantage instead of just playing SWF I think they deserve it.
But at the same time you have killers dodging solo survivors who are in outfits the killer doesn't like (especially legacy) and bringing items in.
You'll never stop lobby dodging from either side and making updates that encourage the behaviour is bad.
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They're not gonna make half their playerbase unhappy and thus risk their game going to zero.
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@Whateverthefuck You didn't. All you have suggested is to handicap SWF. I don't see you offering any reasonable suggestion.Ironic coming from you. And no, SWF aren't instantly toxic. Rarely are my games toxic at all, but I guess it's different in trash tier.Uh, I do. Well, if you hold that opinion, it sounds like I've played killer for longer too. Guess there's no reasoning with you. And what would you know? You admitted to lobby dodging SWF anyway. You're literally boosted. Why should anyone listen to you babble?Um, okay, I was the first person to make those points in this thread. Sit down. Have a snickers. When you are ready, I'll answer your title for you in a simple way that you might understand: No.1
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TL;DR Balance between killer and survivor is currently focused around randomly grouped survivors that need handicaps to offset the mistakes they make due to that lacking coordination. However, high performing SWF groups that organize their perks, and use voice comms during trials are able to circumvent the problems that warrant those survivor handicaps, making them more powerful than intended.
I played for the first time today since rank reset, and >75% of groups were seemingly SWF, i.e. they all loaded in together, didnt have any redundant or weak perks, etc..
Generally, I expect to lose to SWF, but at rank 10 I thought it should be easier. Right? Maybe? Not really. Not that they should struggle, but these SWF groups didn't struggle as much as I would have thought, especially when they were making the same mistakes as the randomly grouped survivors I had played with. SWF group's mistakes would only pause progress briefly, as they'd recuperate before they seriously fell behind. Whereas randoms would lose morale and fall apart as they mistakenly led the killer to team mates, or all tried to unhook the same person at the same time. I noticed that when I was playing against the SWF groups, any mistakes I made, like chasing too long or running the wrong direction generally gave them a major leap forward, which wasn't the case with random survivors.
These experiences suggest to me that there are handicaps in place for survivors to offset the mistakes that randomly grouped survivors will inevitably face, which makes sense, considering the uncertainty of their disorganized circumstances. As a killer main, I embrace those handicaps because the game shouldn't end just because mistakes are made, mistakes are expected and should be welcomed - a killer is out to get them, after all. Not to mention, when survivors make mistakes, the time it takes them to recuperate allows the killer to make some mistakes themselves and still have a chance. However, an organized SWF team removes themselves from the regular conditions of the game. By being prepared for anything (coordinated perks) and having the means to quickly adapt across their entire team on the fly (comms), they don't suffer the same consequences of making mistakes as randomly grouped survivors do. But, they still receive the benefits to help them deal with those mistakes, that they don't really encounter.
There are supposed to be four, unacquainted survivors with varying skill sets that need to make due with what they have to escape. Not, be four highly trained, collaborating Seal Team Six operatives whose sole mission is to teabag and shine flashlights into the eyes of the poor harmless killers they are up against.
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They haven’t even fixed something as simple as dead survivors knowing all of the killers perks and add-ons. Good luck with this.1
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Ah the good old weekly rant about SWF, now we need a rant about DS, BBQ and Survivors beeing OP and we got our cycle complete.
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@Avariku said:
I've mentioned this idea before and it always seems to get shot down, but I still don't fully understand why.if they had an in-game comms system that operated by radius(only able to speak to/hear those close to you) it would fix a lot of the issue.
players couldn't convey information from across the map as easily, they would have to shut up when the killer is nearby (realistic), and it would open comms up for non-swf players as well.
yes there would be toxicity issues, but that's what a mute/report function would be used for.
Discord is just superior.
We need ingame voice comms that work over the whole map and that the killer cant hear.
Then the game can be balanced properlySure, in an immersive horror game it would be better to have radius and that the killer can hear you, but please face it, DBD is not that kind of game
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Yes.
2 man swf isn't so bad. I don't mind that.
3 and 4 is when it starts to get crazy.
Everyone else has to waste a perk slot for things like Kindred, 4 man swf get it for free - along with other perks like Alert, Spine Chill etc
I really don't think it would be too much to ask for 4 man swf to lose a perk slot or two.
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@EntityDispleased said:
At this point they should just add voice comms in game and buff killers all the way. There's no way around swf and if the devs try and come close to changing that up they'd risk losing a big chunk of their not so big playerbase.Also not all swfs are hardcore tryhards, some just want to have fun with friends and getting punished for wanting to have fun doesn't sound right to me.
If they add voice comms I'd probably leave the game tbh. Seriously I like the fact that as solo survivor I hear nothing. Hearing squeakers scream would just be boring.
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@Visionmaker said:
@purebalance said:
@Visionmaker said:
@HellDescent said:Give killers an option to opt-out from swf
Yeah sure, let's break all the queues and have people just lobby dodge till they get the same room with each other.
The number of people actually lobby dodging before SWF and the ones who were actually successful at it were very few.
That's not the point. All of the players that want to play with friends would either lobby hop or just quit because of long queues, neither of which are desirable. Considering that at least 70% of our lobbies contain SWF, we don't need to butcher what we have with switcheroos/uninstallers.
We have a surplus of killer players and a lack of solo survivors. We do not need fewer survivors, including SWF. We do not need to nerf players that keep the game alive just to appease whiny killers that lobby dodge every hard match up anyway.
Playing with friends is more advantageous and fun, while the solo survivor experience is unbearable, unrewarding, and has not been significantly improved. This is the real problem.
Except they wouldn't. That was the point. The number that did the nonsense before was minimal hence the number who will quit or try to do it if they reverted it would also be minimal.
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