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Barbeque & Chili Change!
This perk is plainly too strong. I see so many killers defend it by downplaying its effectiveness. Not only does it provide an astounding amount of extra bloodpoints, but it provides vision of the enemy team. I've heard the rebuttals... "It's so easily countered" "Hide in a locker" "Run one way and then after 4 seconds, run the opposite way". This is absolutely ridiculous. No survivor perk forces a killer to essentially WASTE TIME to counter a perk.
Now, before killers jump on me and scream "Borrowed Time! -- Decisive Strike! -- Unbreakable!!!"-- let's get this out of the way:
These perks do not change the killer gameplay, they counter the killer EXPLOITS. Camping a hook can only be countered by BT. If you decide to still proceed with this type of tactic, BT will punish this. If you further STILL decide to beat through the BT and tunnel this player, it is punished by DS. If you decide to slug because you aware that you have tunneled and are rightly concerned about DS, this tactic is countered by UB. Notice that these gameplay decisions are baseline for killer and NOT empowered by perk slots. However, Survivors must use these perks on the off-chance (most likely chance) that they will happen.
So, rounding back to BBQ, having this power is too strong. It effectively trivializes an entire component of the killer gameplay... Hunting. This is exacerbated further by select killers... namely Spirit, Nurse, Blight, Hillbilly... extreme mobility can counter even the fickle proposed 'counters' to this perk.
I've asked the opinion of BBQ to a vast selection of players. Each of them parrot similar responses. "I use it for more bloodpoints. The grind is too much. I don't use it for the information". Then I'll watch them play; without fail, after each hook they do a 360, surveying the field and remarking (sometimes even verbally) on the locations of survivors. Hmmm, thought you didn't use it for information?
There is only 1 perk that directly counters this-- Distortion. Which is lackluster at best. 3 tokens (3 hooks out of a possible 9 - yes, the Death Hook counts). To avoid detection. Weak and unworthy of being a "counter". This is also assuming that the killer is not running add-ons or another perk that reveals auras ( E.g. I'm All Ears) which will eat your tokens and leave you vulnerable to BBQ.
I've heard the argument that, it rewards the killer objective of hooking and that survivors have a perk that does the same in that of Dark Sense (reveals the killers aura when a generator is complete). I rebuttal with, how about the bloodpoint increase? Where is the token system that rewards survivors further for doing the objective? If they wanted this similar function they would need to equip We're Gonna Live Forever, which rewards Altruistic actions and NOT Objectives. So not only would survivors need to use 2 perk slots for a similar potency of Barbeque & Chili, but they would also need to split their focus from just doing objectives to also being altruistic for the same value.
Starting to see the issue here?
Now, enough of the rant and onto the proposed changes:
[1] Change the aura reading to ONLY work against survivors who have NOT been hooked.
- This change enforces the perks purpose of locating survivors and getting your stacks for the extra BP. Once you have hooked someone, they will not be revealed to you by this perk.
[2] Split the perks function into 2 separate perks.
- Vision for every time you hook (this could be buffed to several extra seconds to compensate for the BP loss), and a perk that gives you tokens for hooking (this could also be increased to compensate.
[3] Buff We're Gonna Live Forever to reveal the killer's aura to all survivors when unhooking in the fashion of a reverse BBQ.
So now to the poll. HEALTHY and RESPECTFUL discussion is encourage. I am curious to know your thoughts on the matter.
Barbeque & Chili Change! 105 votes
Comments
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BBQ is fine as is
"No survivor perk forces a killer to essentially WASTE TIME to counter a perk." This is patently untrue. Old DS would prevent an immediate pickup. Second chances and exhaustion perks extend chases depending on the survivor and killer's skill. Hell, Alert does pretty much a better job than BBQ, but we still see killers going around and breaking pallets.
BBQ is not overpowered in the first place. A simple aura perk doesn't even necessitate that you try to counter it. Even if the killer has BBQ, 4 seconds is plenty of time to get lost, and information perks aren't great in general, since they don't help the killer in chase. Even if the killer didn't have BBQ, they'd still continue on their usual generator patrol, until they eventually did find you. At that point, BBQ is out of the picture and it's a game of who can loop better. The only thing BBQ does is cut down on that patrol time by giving you a better idea of where to look for first. Plus; you still have only a 1/3rd chance of being chased with BBQ; three auras of BBQ mean that they could very well go for the 2 other people.
Don't forget that people aren't robots either. The killer is going to make mistakes and the killer is going to be unable to process all the information given to them. Simply knowing where you are is great (sarcastically), but the real question is, what are you going to do about it? There is only 1 killer, and the killer can only chase 1 survivor. Even without BBQ, they would have gone on the patrol until they found a survivor, so it's not like it enables a brand new game-breaking playstyle. The killer isn't going to be crunching numbers to deduce who is in the most sub-optimal looping spot, who would be the easiest catch, or the exact progression and calculation of how they will mechanically down, hook, and pursue other survivors in a complex tree of possibilities, they're going to see three auras, and move towards one of them.
If you insist on mind-gaming BBQ, instead of moving for 4 seconds (usually do 4.5 seconds just to be safe; the auras fade out and so they'll get a glimpse of you if you turn at the very end), try standing still or doing a generator for 4 seconds, and then moving away. It's usually more efficient, and works better if you're setting up a stationary decoy. Lockers aren't bad either; I don't see what you're exactly complaining about with them.
One last thing; get off of the soapbox. Tunneling and camping are not exploits. Exploits are when you find a vulnerability or an unintended feature/bug that allows you unwanted access. The devs have stated multiple times that tunneling and camping are meant to be in the game. The point of these perks is to punish these scummy playstyles, but there really aren't any perks that are going to directly counter them. DS never did work against hard-tunnelers, and the recent nerfs made it useless beyond belief, BT will delay the inevitably, but if you're getting camped, you're getting camped. Unbreakable has one token. One free pick-up isn't going to make a killer say, "Oh jeez, I'm so sorry," if they're knockout slugging everybody. If you want to invite people to a civil discourse, then you yourself have to be welcoming.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on16 -
BBQ is fine as is
Why do people keep trying to nerf a perk that discourages camping and has tons of counterplay????
18 -
BBQ is fine as is
BBQ is a very healthy perk.
5 -
BBQ is fine as is
You are not thinking of this logically, no perk is healthier or more well balanced than BBQ, and that's saying a lot considering it has so many counters it could easily be useless lol but survivors are lazy
9 -
BBQ is fine as is
it's a fine perk, it discourages camping and tunneling and rewards killers for hooking survivors.
3 -
BBQ is fine as is
its fairly balanced, why change it
2 -
BBQ is fine as is
I think BBQ is an incredibly balanced perk, there's outplay to it on the Survivor side, it encourages killers to leave the person on the hook and get immediately into a chase and get people off gens. I really do not see that this perk needs changing in the slightest.
16 -
BBQ is fine as is
BBQ is a very balanced perk, it does not need changes.
2 -
BBQ is fine as is
I really don't understand why people want BBQ to get nerfed. This perk literally discourages camping and has a bit too many counterplays in my opinion
5 -
BBQ is fine as is
"No survivor perk forces a killer to essentially WASTE TIME to counter a perk."
This person has never heard of Borrowed Time.
4 -
BBQ is fine as is
If a killer tunnels, camps, slugs it is considered an exploit? that is new to me. Also BBQ is probably the most well designed perk in the game. There is no need for a change at all.
4 -
BBQ is fine as is
BBQ is actually pretty weak dude. If it didnt double your BP it would rarely ever be used.
0 -
BBQ is fine as is
Not quite getting the response you had expected or hoped for huh? Let me clue you in on something, Barbecue & Chili is the Survivor's best friend. Without it, you would see a whole lot more camping. The Perk gives Killers a reason to leave so you can get a safe rescue. It is win/win for both sides. More to the point, the Perk has lots of counters, and even if they do see your aura briefly way in the distance (remember it only works on Survivors far away) you have plenty of time to move if you need to do so. You should be cheering that the Perk exists, not trying to nerf it and thus shoot yourself (and all Survivors) in the foot.
4 -
I think if you're running BBQ but you stay at hook camping you lose the BP bonus for not going for another survivor. I see more camping killers use BBQ than I do ones that actually use the aura reading to go after a new survivor.
0 -
I’m definitely with you on this one.
0 -
BBQ is fine as is
dude, bbq is only used for bp, not for the aura reading.
0 -
BBQ is fine as is
BBQ is good how it is
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
Look I appreciate the effort you put into this thread but I'm sorry but BBQ is fine. I don't have anything much to say about it.
2 -
BBQ is fine as is
Only a few killers can utilize BBQ's aura. And you can hide behind a gen no problem being the primary objective. And not really as good on Nurse and Spirit.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
How is BBQ opressive? I don't think you realise that most trashy killer would simply camp you on the first hook if not it's aura reading. Better think your requests through. Also as one dude mentioned you can work around it very easily (hide behind gen, in locker, run one direction for 5 seconds then turn around...).
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
By the time you catch up to someone that you just saw on BBQ & chili, they're usually gone anyway--or you're playing a low level game where survivors don't know to assume you have it.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
I stopped reading when you started calling things you don't like exploits.
Suffice it to say, plenty of survivor perks actively force killers to waste a lot of time, significantly more than anything the killer can bring. They fit into the catagory known as "second chance perks".
1 -
BBQ feels oppressive but I don't like these proposed changes
BBQ should reveal survivors' locations with bubbles instead of auras. This stops the killer from seeing injured survivors and tunneling them (you know, that thing that everyone says this perk does/encourages...)
If BBQ is "fine as is," then Rancor needs to be changed and only show the location of the Obsession.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
The more you play, the less powerful and more balanced you realize this perk is.
Not saying it's weak, it's actually very decent. It's just that there are other strong, nearly broken perks available for both sides that could use a change or two... and BBQ isn't one of them.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
I genuinely can't take anyone seriously who thinks BBQ is OP lmao.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
This post is laughably absurd. To be fair that doesn't really need to be said, does it? All it takes is a look at the results to see you're wrong, my friend.
1 -
BBQ is fine as is
How exactly does BBQ encourage tunnelling? If you've just hooked someone else and the injured person is at least 40 meters away then you are not tunnelling that person. They had ample time to get away.
2 -
BBQ is fine as is
at rank 1 you dont even use bbq to know where people are, I want to know where they ARENT. I want to know how many people are near where Im hooking, If I see 2-3 people on one gen there is no point in pressuring it, the gen will be done by the time I can get there, my objective is now set up and interception half way between the hook and gen, forcing them to spread wide around me on their way to the hook, allowing me to apply pressure to the group because I know they wont be slipping past me. If I see 0-1 aura I know most people are near me, I check the local gens, then go off and patrol if none of them are close to finished. If I do see all 3 people, just hanging around in different corners of the map, Im not b lining it to anyone, by the time I get there theyd likely be long gone or hiding, it wastes far too much time. It tells me that I have plenty of time before they unhook this person and to begin my patrol rotation. No decent player is using bbq to find their next target in most situations, it happens but its rare. Honestly its primarily used for bp first, and a means of getting general knowledge if you really havent been paying attention
0 -
Split the perk function into 2 separate perks and buff them slightly
Because there are killers who still camp with it obviously
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Buff WGLF with aura reading
i really REALLY think this perk is OK not SUPER OP or anything just meta, but I do have a problem with how weak the survivors version of BBQ is with WGLF, I don't think BBQ needs a nerf at all, WGLF definitely needs a buff either way
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BBQ is fine as is
BBQ is a very balanced perk
0