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I don't think kindred should be made base kit
The effect it has on solo queuing survivors is amazing. It gives them the most important information they need when they need it through aura reading.
Aura reading should be limited to the use of perks or items. Aura reading base kit seems a bit too much for solo queuing survivors as well. I know that solo needs a buff, but I just don't t think making it base kit would work. After all, it only helps to an extent.
I think solo queue needs something else, something to spice things up that won't break the game.
I agree.
The thing is, DBD is "balanced" around 4 solo survivors and the killer. That is why we have perks that give the player select amounts of information, such as Bond and Alert.
That is why SWF is an unsolvable problem. Using comms is a huge advantage, where it shouldn't be. -GeneralV
Very good point
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If Kindred is made base kit, give killers Bitter Murmur basekit.
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kindred basekit would be way too strong.
the reverse BBQ effect on the killer is amazingly good, way too good to just be basekit - i wouldnt mind the other survivors auras being revealed to one another though.
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But what if it was only a portion of kindreds effect
As basekit whenever a survivor is hooked the nearest survivor has their aura revealed to all other survivors (they get a small blue symbol in the bottom left to know this is the case)
that way the survivor is marked is the one who should go for the save and the survivor team can coordinate around the marked survivors actions but don't get the full effect of kindred or even see the killers aura
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I disagree, kindread should be basekit, and probably just kindread as an buff to solo would not be enought
you really wanna know the problem with this game?
The big problem is that the only one that can compete with an death squad swf is nurse and spirit and the only one that can compete with nurse an spirit is an death swf
But for solo an Freddy/Deathslinger is enought to make an killer sided match ( depending on the map )
Why, SWF can get a LOT of information, if an killer is camping, the camped guy would just say that his is getting camped and everyone one would focus on gen
While in solo someone would need to go to there to acctully know that he is being camped, so the 3 other survival would need to go near the hook to understand that it is an acctual camping situation
In an swf everyone would in just one hook understand if he i an camper/tunneler, so if the killer made just one mistake that gives an small oppotunity to go to the save, an swf would not let it pass
While the solo would just wait for an bigger opportunity that shall never occour
So is bassically this what make the game unbaleced
Balance around solo, be against swf would be an hell, balance around swf, solo would be an hell
if they give the solo information about the perks of the other survival, if you give the information if someone is already going to the save on hook
then solo survival would acctully get the information that people in an swf already get, then this would give the opportunity to acctully fix a lot of balancing problem
I made an really big text, and english is not my first language so if i write something that dont make sense,tell me that i am gonna fix it (:
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Kindred shouldn't be base kit, because immersion is still a thing. I know many people here don't care, but for new players that would break the mood that gets most people in the game started. Also no... because survivors don't need a buff. You want the aura read, spend a perk slot... its a base game perk ffs
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Camping should be addressed by giving survivors more options outside of perks, and then maybe there wouldn’t even need a reason to suggest that kindred should be built-in. Camping is a problem even in SWF.
Camping (along with other abusive actions) are the common denominator for why people even whine about solo Q.
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Solos shouldn't have to use perks and items for information SWF get for free and granting them this information basekit would be a step closer to actually being able to balance the game.
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just give survivors permanent aura reading and rework perks like bond and empathy
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Usally I am not a fan of the idea to give killers or survivors aura reading for free but when I see how SoloQ is currently, maybe changing kindred to be basekit would be a good idea. It would give survivors better communication that usally only SWF has, the quality of games would be better for survivors and killers and it would be a change that wouldn't really buff SWF's. Sure immersion is important and all...but lets be honest, only for like the first 10-15 hours. In my opinion there is no argument against it.
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I agree.
The thing is, DBD is "balanced" around 4 solo survivors and the killer. That is why we have perks that give the player select amounts of information, such as Bond and Alert.
That is why SWF is an unsolvable problem. Using comms is a huge advantage, where it shouldn't be.
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Making survivor stronger does not make the game more balanced. If you want to balance the game, they should get rid of survivor with friends.
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But they won't get rid of SWF because that would kill the game so work with me here and look at the bigger picture.
Solo survivors get buffed in ways that doesn't affect SWF. SWF power level remains the same, solos rises up.
Killers can now be buffed and maps reworked with this new level of coordination and information in mind.
The game becomes more balanced.
It's easier to balance a 4v1 when the team of 4 are all given the same information as each other, or close to it.
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Kindred should not be made base kit, most folks understand why as well, and thankfully the devs absolutely do they have said that won't happen themselves.
However solo queue could use something; honestly I like Scott Jund's idea for solo queue information, that would help a ton.
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SWF have this information without perk, so what is wrong
And yes solo survivors need buffs because game balances against SWF. For that Solo survivors are so weak.
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Solo queue needs information to make it better yes; but kindred is very much not the same as what SWF have.
People will still use kindred even in a SWF for a reason; it gives a lot of instant, extremely accurate wordless information about everyone and everything going on; and also most importantly, the killer's location if they are within the hook distance.
Add further that open handed is due for a buff someday in the future; and you would be setting up a recipe for disaster.
There have been far better solutions suggested for the solo queue problems than just making Kindred basekit, which would likely do more harm than good; as it wouldn't even solve many of the actual solo queue problems anyways.
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Yes i know, kindred works only when someone on hook. But swf have informations all time. For example:
"I am working on gen but i saw totem on shack"
"Killer is coming to main building, i saw him"
"Killer is camping on me"
"I will down, be ready for flashlight saves" etc
Killers are weak against SWF teams usually but because for that killers balancing for SWF level. That is why Solo-q lives worst days. Solo survivors need some love. They have to chance too. And most of DbD players are solo survivor. If game lose them that will be so late for DbD.
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To me, Kindred is the answer to a killer who is camping a hook. I see Trickster all the time camping those hooks from the start because they say he is so weak so they camp. I imagine most will continue this until he is buffed here shortly. We see that camping with Kindred and dont even try the save. That player unfortunately takes one for the team while we are doing the 3rd or 4th gen and maybe the killer will learn to pressure the gens more and not make camping their "go to tactic". Not just Trickster though, I have seen Wraith do this more and more except that killer main is smarter because they know he is invisible. Well there is a fix for that, run comms for SWF, or Empathy or Bond and see no other survivor is being pressured so he is sitting by the hook and we just keep doing what were doing.
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Don't confuse me saying solo queue shouldn't get some much needed attention with me not wanting something problematic introduced.
There have been much better less intrusive options, that would buff solo queue even more than kindred would in better ways; while not causing problems like huge killer aura reveal and more information than even SWF players ever have
Also keep in mind, you would be giving kindred base kit to SWF as well, there is no way to give it to solo queue only because you might encounter a 2 or 3 person group and they would disable it on you, and that isn't fair either. So you would be buffing SWFs or just making it basically only work for such a tiny bit of people that it just outright serves no use anyways.
Dvs have already said Kindred will never be basekit anyways; but they would continue to pursue alternative methods of improving the solo queue experience. (They sure are taking their time don't get me wrong, but it won't be with kindred when it happens, and for good reason)
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Well i dont know are devs cares or not. Maybe you are right, kindred base kitt would be op for survivors. But Solo also weakest role in game and i am sure most of games solos losing. And so many people gets annoying for that. They need to do something for solo survivors or i am sure they will start to lose players. Because killing and crushing by killers is not fun. I mean you cant win always but game has to be balance and fair. When you play as solo surv, you have to know " yes i will have chance to escape ". But for months when i play as surv " another annoy game, if i am lucky game will be fun."
But i know that is hard because SWF makes this so hard. If you buff survivors, SWF will get new advantages too. And with that they will be stronger against killers. Maybe add voice chat and buff all killers. So swf was already had voice and all survivors will be same level, idk.
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Voice chat is also pretty much off the table.
However the most accepted solution to solo queue has been for the introduction of a communication wheel, and most people have been on board with that. Pressing a hot key and a wheel comes up that has varied options depending on what you are doing, you would drag your mouse and release the key, and it would send that information to other survivors- mirroring that you would have in a SWF.
So for example, say you are on a totem and you press it; your wheel would have things to say like "I am going for the save" or "I am being chased" and it would send that to the rest of the team and indicate who says it maybe with a little yellow flash on their icon or something.
It would literally be comparable to the same information as a SWF has; so it wouldn't be problematic or unfair in any way since it offers no benefit over what a SWF has and would only be redundant for SWFs.
Lastly, one thing I would leave you on though. Is that the game isn't just hopeless because it's solo, it happens because you get that one person from bad matchmaker or someone just griefing because "lol I hate ___ killer" and crap like that. When compared to normal matches at fair matching and such, stats showed SWF escape rate was only like....4% higher than solo queue.
Most of the solo queue problems will still happen; even after being given communication just because they are unknown people acting up- and there is nothing to be done about that.
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I made suggestion a while back, where I said that Kindred should be basekit without the killer aura reading part. Then, give the killer aura over to the perk, Camaraderie, Steve’s perk.
Aura Reading + More struggle time can give solo players a bit more time to make a move if the killer is camping.
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That information is still actually more than what SWF has in some areas; but less in others. It doesn't change the difference in coordination values a SWF has either which is where their strength mainly is.
Revealing locations specifically is VERY strong and making it base kit would be in kind buffing SWFs too. Then you now have to buff killers again because of it; meanwhile solo queue still struggles because they have none of the coordination benefits that a SWF has, and still subject to most of the same problems.
Proposed solutions like the communication wheel would solve more of the problem, not over buff anyone, be redundant to SWFs, and be easier to implement then start changing and re-balancing everything entirely.
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Basekit kindred would be fine if it were nerfed to only being able to see other survivor auras.. Kindred, the perk itself, should then have the added benefit of revealing the killer's aura.
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This. We need to give killers more reason to leave hook.
It's kind of sad how, even with BBQ, Make Your Choice, Pop and the new No Way Out, a lot of killers still resort to camping and tunneling.
There really isn't a way to stop camping or tunneling, if a killer wants to do these they can and will and others will be right there to say:
"iT's A vAliD sTraTeGy LOLLLLL just do gens"
Then complain about gen rushing being a problem
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Precisely. And camping/tunneling are also the main reasons why people disconnect - even with the dc penalty which, as I foresaw, would only reduce dc right after implementation. Dcs are on the rise again, and they only go down when there is a new tome. Tome missions are far more effective to reduce people disconnecting than the dc penalty.
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Kindred is too powerful of a perk for that. If its gonna be base, then showing other survivors might be ok, but showing the killer is absolutely broken. Maybe if Kindred gave you the ability to see the killer when hooked or when someone else is hooked and the base kits showing survivor then maybe.
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Basekit showing all of survivors, perfectly okay. That's the bit of kindred that everyone wants as base-kit anyway.
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If the killer rate is 65-75% and swf demolish killers you can’t say this game is balanced around 4 solos
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Do you guys even understand the point of why people ask for kindred base kit? It’s to bump survivors up to SWF level, and with that then killers can also be buffed.
So let’s look at the information that kindred gives. It tells you where your teammates are when another survivor is hooked. SWF has this information by just talking. It tells you which direction the killer is going straight after an unhook, SWF gets the same info just by talking.
SWF has kindred as base kit, the only way to balance this game for all sides is to balance SWF and solo to have the same info
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What is the solution to camping? Just do gens.
What would kindred basekit solve for soloQ? Tell the survivors when just to do gens.
Would it affect swf? No.
But you can just equip the perk, you simply don't want to give up your 'crutch' perks! Well, you don't want to give up your 'crutch' basekit camping either. And it's telling how the 'crutch' perks all have to do with countering camping/tunneling.
Don't make it basekit = I want free license to camp my way to a 4k against soloQ. Because if it was made basekit, suddenly ez 4ks would turn into 1/2k and you couldn't call circling the hook 'patrolling'.
See where I'm going? Kindred should absolutely be basekit. The devs say it's too much? Remember when they said mash-a-button struggle phase was fine too? I do.
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This seems like a silly thread to start seeing as how the developers aren’t threatening to make it “base kit”.
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I have had Kindred in my builds since 2017. It's an amazing perk and even on comms it makes for much easier shotcalling. I find it hilarious how many people have requested the effect be basekit, aka realizing it's a good perk and a strong power to have...but aren't willing to take it as a perk. It's been a staple of my builds for 4 years for a reason guys...
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Aura reading should be limited to the use of perks or items.
I completely agree. Killers have too much information for free. Killers should not see the aura of generators as well, nor the aura of hooks when carrying a survivor. It's too easy.
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No auras. Instead 'Survivor Instinct'.
You'd have a button you can press (probably with a cooldown) that would display the 'heartbeat' graphic over each other survivor on the map, showing you the direction each other survivor is in.
It's less info than an aura perk like Kindred, but it gives you similar information to a SWF who are telling each other where they are on comms.
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So killers already have all gens revealed, all hooks revealed, all gates revealed, huge red explosions in the map when someone makes a noise, huge marks in the floor to follow survivors that run and complete freedom to find the hatch. But they also need having all survivors revealed as part of their base kit?
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i have a better idea:
make kindred a basekit, BUT you cant see the killer like you can with regular kindred.
so basically all itll do is make it so survivors can see each other and decide whos going for the unhook
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We really don't need to make solo queue more like SWF unless folks actually do want a 30 minute Survivor queue.
If anything, we need to make SWF more fun for killer.
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Please don't remove that part. I can approve that the aura reading range is reduced, but running Kindred has saved lots of teammates of mine frm dying to facecampers.
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Kindred base kit and Whispers base kit are what I think they should do. Would help solo que without really helping swf and it would help remove the immersion crap that happens a lot of times when 2 people are dead.
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Kill rate is so high because of 2 reasons:
1) Flawed matchmaking that matches people based on their playtime in last month (and not even their winrate)
2) It's extremely easy to throw a game as survivor: death at 5 gen leads to the entire team being wiped, greed to get 4 escapes leads to teamwipe, etc. Not to mention that killers like Oni can easily wipe the entire team in dozens of seconds.
Once AT least new MMR matchmaking is released, a few months later we'll see more or less accurate data since survivors will be playing with more matching killers to them instead of seeing noob trappers and tournament nurses on same ranks.
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I think Kindred should be basekit without showing the killer aura.
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If Kindred was base kit then the corrupt or BBQ should be for killers.
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@Yords do you ever feel that Kindred negatively influences your teammate's decision making?
I love when my teammates run Kindred, but every time I run kindred I regret it. It feels as though my teammates play gen-chicken, and are each holding out at the last possible moment to come unhook me--often leaving me to 2nd hook.
Or alternatively (and quite frequently), Kindred invites a teammate to sprint over to me, catching the killers attention in the process, leading to a stand-off. Moments later a 2nd teammate will leave their gen beacuse they can see whats happening, and the situation devolves into a half-assed semi-coordinated hook bomb that often leads to a 3-man slug.
The perk is amazing on paper, but in execution it always seems to fail me. I only wish I was running it the rare game I watch 2 teammates sit on gens a mile away, despite the third teammate entering the injured state--indicating they are being chased.
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I don't think so, usually when teammates run over to you like that, it happens regardless of kindred. I feel that survivors just in general don't really know that they should be sneaking in for a safe save. The situation you are talking about is also a bit uncommon, so I think that kindred can only benefit your teammates' decision making.
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Thank you! I am glad to see that you agree with me :)
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None of those give you the exact location of survivors.
Don't play the "survivors are so weak" card. It's not a good look.
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