Is DbD streaming unethical?
I've often gone against or have been teamed up with twitch streamers. There are several streamers/content creators who I watch regularly on YouTube. While I enjoy watching DbD content creators, there are some ethical questions I have considered.
- Anonymity: I think most of the time; when we play a match of DbD, we aren't expecting a large group of people to watch our matches. With streamers, several thousand viewers can watch their video uploads or streams. Often, streamers don't blur out the names of their opponents. They can also make comments about their opponents game play/skill and degrade them. This can possibly expose these players to harassment without their knowledge or consent. I think to remedy this, all names in DbD matches should be hidden/blurred unless that player gives their consent to be featured or mentioned in the video/stream.
- Lack of Compensation: A game of DbD requires both a killer and survivors. There are some DbD content creators who make a living streaming this game. This also means they are dependent on the other side (survivor or killer) to generate content for their channel/streams. None of the other players are offered any compensation, even though they are necessary for the content creator to generate revenue and produce their content. If these players are necessary for the production of profitable content, I think it is only fair they receive a portion of the streamer's compensation.
This isn't meant to be an attack on streamers. I enjoy their content, but I think all players should be treated fairly. What are your thoughts?
Comments
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I'd be fine with getting put into a video without my consent but I do agree with you.
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I used to stream. Had usually 1-2 viewers at any given time. One time I won a game against another very popular Spanish streamer which resulted in 80+ viewers coming into the stream all sharing insulting comments on looks, play style etc. Blurring out names or changing the name I think is a good healthy step.
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The compensation part is a bit to much lol. However I do agree that anyone who streams or puts videos on YouTube should have to blur out the names of the opponents. People didn't sign up to be judged or worse targeted by a large audience because of how they played a video game. Players just loaded up the game to have fun and not be subjected to that.
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The first argument is just made up and weak, but second one is a plain joke.
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That sounds pretty silly to me. I don't know single multiplayer game where content creators blurr out names of other players for any reason that much less have any obligation to them.
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Seeing how this is the case with every online game in existance it would very much surprise me if there wouldn't be something about it in the terms of use in either dbd or the platform you play dbd on.
I'm not going through all that text again but it may be possible that you already gave your consent.
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I'm not picking on DbD in particular. I think this is more a critique of streaming itself. If I'm instrumental in someone else making money, it seems only fair that I receive some contribution of it, or my consent is gained before I'm featured in a public video. I think my post is more a question about streaming in general. Behavior doesn't have the power to regulate Youtube or Twitch or people recording their own gaming footage.
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Like i said it's probably somewhere in the terms of service of steam or whatever platform your playing on.
Twitch and youtube would have been sued to oblivion if that wasen't the case.
Not 100% sure of it cause I'm not going through multiple pages for this and i'm not a lawyer but it would really surprise me if that wasen't the case.
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Your anonymity isn't broken by having your screen name featured, and it makes no sense to demand compensation. You don't deserve money for playing a game.
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You want the streamer that's streaming the game to compensate you for playing the game with them because they couldn't have streamed the match without you?
What. The. #########. This HAS to be a bait post right? There's no way somebody actually thinks like this.
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I don't think its fair that someone monetizes my own gameplay content without my consent. That's basically what streamers are doing.
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No, don't play multiplayer games if you don't like the idea of potentially ending up on someone's stream.
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Normally when I watch a stream I’m watching it for them. If we are referring to the more popular ones I want to watch their play style you barely see the other people’s.
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I disagree, I thinks someone deserves the right to play a multiplayer game without having their name plastered onto a video so someone else can make money off of it.
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Your gameplay has no monetary value to you or the streamer, it's THEIR gameplay and stream that is being used for their gain. You just happen to be playing the same game as they are, which you can't put a price on, that would be ridiculous.
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I normally am the same way. But some people are used in montages and don't have their names blurred. This can lead to players being harassed.
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I don’t care about compensation. That’s like what maybe a few bucks? Not even that much. I would however prefer to be asked permission to show my name when someone is streaming the match. If I don’t give my consent then it blurs it out. I would like that for any game, not just DBD. I use videogames to get away from being a laughing stock in real life. I don’t want to see it on YouTube and Twitch too.
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I agree, if streamers wanted to use my footage, I would be fine as long as I remained anonymous.
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But the streamer depends on YOUR gameplay in order to generate content. I agree monetizing everyone would be a bit much, so I think the best solution would be to blur out the names of the other players.
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LoL apperently had this happen once and the short of it is that they are streaming only assets from the game.
Your username also is an asset of the game. You do not have full ownership of your account as it can get terminated if you violate the rules and thus nothing owned by you is being used in whatever stream.
Not 100% sure this is correct but that seems to be the gist of it
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A question as old as streaming itself.
If you think there's any legal basis for what you're saying, you should consult a lawyer.
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I hope you contacted said Streamer about this. Most Streamers I know (from viewing, not personally), really dont like if some of their viewers go on a Witchhunt in another Stream and usually, those viewers will be banned from said Streamers Livestream.
@Topic:
I think it is nonsense to even waste a thought about compensation or that your game might be livestreamed. Like, who cares? At worst, you get called dumb on a Stream. Most Streamers I go against have 5 viewers at max. And you want compensation because one Streamer, his second account, his grandma and his best friend are seeing how you are in the same game as the Streamer?
Same like notifying and asking for permission... Really, the DBD-Community is the most sensitive community I have ever seen in my entire life. "OH no, he is streaming! Everyone will see me :(((", really it is whatever. At worst, you get called dumb or something by the Streamer or their viewers, but who cares about that? (Aside from cases where smaller streamers get harassed by larger communities, but as I stated above, usually the larger Streamers are totally against this)
If anything, BHVR might include a note in their EULA that your game might be livestreamed and that you are giving permission to do so when accepting the EULA. This is the most what will ever happen.
Other than that, really, dont care about Streamers. Especially not about those with only a handful of viewers. Those are just normal players who like to show their gameplay, nothing more.
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The GDPR states that a username is pseudo-anonymized information, so I wouldn't be so sure about that "your username is an asset of the game" claim.
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Your privacy do not get exposed by anyone streaming, if you havnt put your own info out on your steam profile on your own, which would be your own mistake.If u dont like how your profile might get exposed out there. Than simly make it private, or "friends only".
Just like videos in a public space. People are fully allowed to film with you in the video. The only time you are fully allowed to deny the video to get uploaded if is it is you who are in focus, and the video would be about. But if you just happen to be there passing by, than you dont have much to say.
Same rule would probably be in dbd and games generally when streamed. If you just randomly end up in a lobby, and a game with a streamer, not much to say.
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As an example, let says a streamer does a "50 killer win streak" video. Every single survivor's game play in all of those matches would be used to contribute towards this said video. None of these survivors would be asked for their permission to have their game play footage used for this video. Their names would remained uncensored as well. The streamer would then monetize this video without the knowledge of any of the players featured in the video. These are the scenarios that I find questionable.
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Yeah like i said, not 100% correct.
Thanks for correcting me though
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I've thought about this before and agree to some extent, but I remember the days where you were not going to end up on a stream in a multiplayer game. If anything, maybe a recorded video with bandicam embossed at the top, lol. It's not a big deal to me though, and it's basically a US news situation: You've been caught on camera in the background, and you didn't even know until it aired. The good thing about that is unless you're already known publicly for other reasons, no one is going to remember you were the 15th extra in a day. Honestly could not tell you a single survivor's name that has gone against Otzdarva (besides maybe people who are already associated with him heavily like his girlfriend), and I watch him quite a lot these days. I can remember interesting interactions, just not actual screen names.
So unethical? Maybe a tad, since monetization and account association are involved. I play this game for my own amusement, and hope to not end up on some angry streamer's show case. 99% of the time though I don't think it matters much. I know there are people who have gotten negative attention from it, but it's the risk you take with most social venues online now.
Ninja Edit: And I don't agree with people deserving some form of monetary compensation. That and having to ask individual permission would effectively kill massive multiplayer streaming, and it's the greatest asset games have for advertising. I'd like to see DBD continue to thrive, even if that means some toes get stepped on.
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If there's a "TTV" in the game, you know you don't need to google it. Couldn't care less about 1-5 viewers.
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I'm not sure what to make of this thread. This is not a debate about "Ethics". Neither of the things you posted has anything to do with what may or may not be "Ethical". Ethics is a lot more complicated than "they showed my screen name!!!" and "They should compensate players for randomly being matched with them!".
Do you realize how many online multiplayer games are streamed? Are those "unethical"? An example is League of Legends. Randomly matched with players, competitive, winners and losers. Should the Streamer have to compensate all 9 other players they get matched with?
I don't stream, I have no plans to ever stream, but this is honestly ridiculous.
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"Team mates should receive compensation of the streamer" ...
no.
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The best solution here is that the streamers blur out the names of the people they play against. This comes at no cost to them and doesn't impede them creating content. People should be able to play a game without some streamer recording their game play without their consent and monetizing it. The argument I'm trying to make here is that a DbD streamer's content is not purely their own. Streamers are recording the game play of others without their consent and monetizing it. I agree that compensating everyone in the match would be a pain in the ass. Keeping the other players identities anonymous is very easy to do and I think should be a basic courtesy to others.
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If you're being harassed by a large community own up to your issue and contact the person responsible for putting your name out there if he or she refuses to delete or edit you out of the content you can go from there. I wouldn't lead off with the streamer owing it to you though.
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If these players are necessary for the production of profitable content, I think it is only fair they receive a portion of the streamer's compensation.
This has to be bait. Could you imagine if this was the case? 99% of *gaming* content on platforms like YouTube and Twitch would just be people playing single player games. Thinking that this is in any way doable, practical or necessary is mind-boggling to me.
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Well a lot of streamers want a streamer mode so they can avoid their viewers harrassing other streamers and stream sniping. Streamer mode is something highly requested by them its just BHVR hasnt made it yet. If you watch a hackers stream they do censor names ETC but it means there are massive black boxes all over the place
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I don't watch that stuff, but I do make exclusively single-player LPs, and one of the reasons is precisely to avoid problems with other players. It's a lot more relaxed and has fewer potential pitfalls. If this becomes an actual concern, the market will adapt.
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I'm fine with people streaming multiplayer games. At the very least, the other players should remain anonymous if they don't give the streamer permission to use their game play footage in their videos.
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You are already anonymous for the most part tho by your username. "blackfoxx_x" dosnt exactly scream out any critical information.
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I dunno, I think having a Streamer Mode in the game that blurs/removes names for the sake of the other players wouldn't hurt anything. Or it could just assign names generically in order to give the Streamer something to work with while protecting the names of the players in the match.
Survivor 1, 2, 3, 4, and Killer.
The player would be able to bring up their Steam profile after the fact if they wanted to sign their profile or something, so the Streamer could still get the usual benefits without incurring issues for the players that wish to not be so openly showcased in a Stream.
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They aren't making money off your gameplay lol what happens if they go the whole match and barely see you and don't even mention you? They aren't watching the streamer in hopes that they'll come across you and if you are featured in a streamers/youtubers video guess what? Nobody will ever remember who you are. Nobody watches a streamer like oh my goodness I wonder who's going to be in their next match!!
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That's like every multiplayer game my guy..
At times. it's not possible to blur out Every single name due to how long or if it just shows up as a pure ***** in-game
Twitch tbf wouldn't be a thing due to the fact that people would be Hard sueing Left and right. Sadly,
I shouldn't have to when It's a multiplayer game,
The people that Witchhunt btw usually are perma-banned from said streamer's stream As it stands,
If it's a hacker, then yeah. Go after him and mass report the bastard for all i care,
But if it's a multiplayer game.. that Everyone, Including the Streamer that paid for it,
Shouldn't said streamer have the right to not Blur out said names when you can easily just change it?
(This logic is already thrown out for consoles but we all know how bad both steam and console players can be..)
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Any streamer, whether survivor or killer, depends on other people to be placed into a match and to generate content. So yes, you are essential for the streamer to have content, thus you are helping them generate money. Even if you hide the entire match, you and the three others along with the streamer themselves where necessary to facilitate a match.
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To me, gaming is no different than walking down the street and suddenly a news crew is there on the corner doing a piece. You can't expect privacy in a public place - and to me a match is a public place. So there's no ethical question in that area as far as I'm concerned.
As for anonymity, that's on the player and his tag. I don't know how it is on consoles, but here on Steam we can pretty much change our tags at will and thus our in-game names. We also have the ability to lock down our profiles from unwanted intrusions and people sending us messages. So if we don't wish to be bothered, we have it in our hands to do so. So again, no ethical questions for us here.
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Shouldn't said streamer have the right to not Blur out said names when you can easily just change it?
No, that's not how it works. If, legally speaking, there's justification for forcing streamers to blur names (and if someone is serious about this and wants to find out, I advise them to get off the forum and speak to an attorney), then it doesn't matter what the streamer paid for or didn't pay for. You can't break the law just because you're using a product you paid for.
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To me, gaming is no different than walking down the street and suddenly a news crew is there on the corner doing a piece. You can't expect privacy in a public place - and to me a match is a public place. So there's no ethical question in that area as far as I'm concerned.
Dunno where you're from, but I've seen more than enough news channels blur faces, license plates, and so on before airing their pieces. The only exception is live stuff, for obvious reasons.
As for anonymity, that's on the player and his tag.
The GDPR seems to say that that usernames constitute pseudo-anonymized personal information. It's not quite that clear-cut.
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This seems silly to me, but if it'll really put one's mind at ease, a streamer can simply blur out someone's name.
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Typically, the law allows you to be recorded as long as there is no expectation of privacy. But I think this opens up Pandora's Box. Let's say a streamer uploads content. If game play footage is considered public domain, and usable by anyone, what is stopping me from taking someone else's content, dubbing over it, claiming it as my own, and profiting off of it? I think this leads to a very slippery slope.
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Games are live though. And over here in the states it's pretty much understood that public places, you have a reduced expectation of privacy.
I mean, when I streamed MMO's I would cover the chatbox because I had access to non-public channels and I wanted to be courteous to those who inhabited those channels as I felt they should expect a certain level of privacy. If I hadn't had those more private channels, I wouldn't of bothered.
But still, if the law states we need to start covering gamer tags, we have the means to do so, I wouldn't mind doing it as most of us already have the tools to do so readily available. I just don't see the point right now as a tag gives the audience context as to what's happening on the screen.... which of the cloned claudettes is it that's doing the sick moves or whatnot.
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The issue with that is.
What if their name appears like **** or ??? due to how people have russian names or special letters that dbd can't comprehend..
Or what if it's too long to blur out by itself. going Overboard the blurring of said names,
Worse case Scenario, What if you verse a hacker but you still have his name Blurred out? that's kinda on You and You alone if you don't have multiple people reporting said Hacker,
Or people that take it too far in-end game chat (Everyone knows this type...) and tells you to Kind Your Stuff, Course i wouldn't let someone get away with it..
It's still a Multiplayer game, Weather or not you want to have your name shown is Completely bias in a sort of way,
You already showing your name to the 4 other players as it stands, Why does it matter if Your name is shown to the rest of the community on dbd or on twitch itself,
Before you do comment, Yes i do realize there's witchhunters out there, and that they also go after anyone that said person wants banned.. Not saying this is Right, but i'm not defending it either.. If ft's a hacker then yeah. like i mentioned above in the post. Witchhunt their ass off the game, (Despite this step not working..)
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I think reporting is different. The devs have access to internal data that the general public does not. Even if the names are blurred, if the devs keep logs of matches, they can easily look this up and find the identity of the hacker.
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Gotta take into consideration the VPNs and the bought accounts they buy for like 5$..
...Sure gotta love facing the same hacker bout 9 times who admitted this..
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