Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
What're your thoughts on Sloppy Butcher
Getting into it
Before anyone says it, yes I know there are much worse perks and perk combinations out there then just Sloppy Butcher. But I wanted to make a post today asking the community of the forums what they genuinely think about the perk itself.
I personally believe the perk is annoying and originally this post reflected that statement. But I thought I would transform it into a question rather than stating the perk is something like "unfair" or "OP" outright.
My reasoning for why I believe it's annoying, but is it also unfair?
For one, it isn't like an average slow-down perk where it actively goes against generator progress. Instead it actively puts a negative toll on healing progress instead.
Now you might ask "Well survivors have Botany Knowledge, Desperate Measures, Med-Kits, etc. Why would it be unfair to slow down healing progress as THE KILLER? Wouldn't it be more unfair that survivors have the ability to increase this progress?" and to that I say is a good point.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to claim a perk is unfair if survivors have MORE perks and items that can negate this. But allow me to give you some insight into how the mangled status effect works as a whole.
The Mangled status effect gives a 20% healing penalty to any survivor that's affected by it. This doesn't mean that their healing speed on others is penalized by this, but rather the speed in which others can heal them is penalized.
Of course Botany Knowledge can negate this since it gives a 33% healing bonus, which is 13% higher than the mangled status effects 20%. But not every survivor is going to run Botany knowledge with a med-kit are they?
Now we can argue semantics until the sun dies out since you can argue pop goes the weasel is negated by any tool-box. But my point (at least for me) is that I believe its more annoying than it's unfair. The perk itself is fairly balanced, even if it's annoying by itself, but aided by others perks and what Killer is using it can also pose the question of if it becomes unfair or not.
It's like how people hate Ruin and Undying. Undying by itself is fairly decent and so is Ruin. But together? Especially on a Killer with map mobility like Blight or Spirit? Now that adds a bit of an issue.
additional comment after discussing below
Originally I said the perk is unfair, but perhaps I was rather saying it's annoying. So instead of just changing the section above outright, I posed it as a question instead that would add a better discussion below.
Do you believe it's unfair to face Sloppy? Or is it just an annoying perk like Dead Hard? The perk itself can be considered unfair when you're talking specifics, like what Killer has it and what their build is, but when we're talking specifics THEN it becomes muddy as a result.
A perk needs to be considered unfair if it's just by itself, saying it's unfair when adding specific scenarios does not equate to this claim.
Sloppy butchers combination potential with other perks
So we've established that the perk itself isn't really the primary issue, its the combination potential itself that I believe is the issue. Sloppy Butcher by itself can be argued as more annoying than OP, but with other perks like Pop, Nurse's Calling, Ruin, and the addition of a Killer with mobility or damage potential? Now that's what I call a boring match.
Even if it's not Blight or Spirit, it's still not fun to see the perk on any Killer that usually runs meta builds. Why would I want to be chased by The Legion who already adds healing penalties when Frenzy is put into the mix?
It really just boils down to what each person perceives as unfair. Which really is just subjective at this point. That's primarily why I decided to present this as a question, rather then stating it as a fact.
What do you think?
Is Sloppy Butcher unfair by itself? Is it unfair with other perks? Or is it not unfair at all? I want to treat this like the Dead Hard discussion I made before. The perk itself LIKE Sloppy is annoying, but the primary question is asking if it's just that.
Do you believe it's OP? Or is its power just derived from other perks? You can even argue my reasoning above as to why I believe it's unfair, that's fine to.
TL;dr
I believe Sloppy Butcher is more annoying then unfair, but I also believe the perk can be unfair when you bring up what Killer is using it and what their build is.
Is it unfair by itself though? Not really, It's fairly balanced actually. But is it annoying to face? I personally can say yes. But what do you think? Is it unfair? Annoying? Both? Or do you even think it's OP?
Comments
-
Im ok with Sloppy Butcher. Yes it can be pretty annoying on some Builds but how often do you see those and how effective are they really ?
As Someone who plays both sides i don't mind facing it. It's just annoying seeing my Teammates heal in a corner of the Map with Selfcare while im on the Hook. But let's face. They would do it with or without Sloppy so it doesn't really change that.
There is Perks that should be looked over more i think.
11 -
I do think it's op. Everytime I'm hit with ot my frames drop and I go down because of it.
1 -
I don’t think it’s unfair because it’s only on basic attacks to if you go up against Oni, Billy and Blight you don’t need to worry about it
0 -
As Survivor - I personally hate going against this perk, I do think it is very strong and boring. (Sloppy with Thana makes me want to cry and just get into the next match)
As Killer - I personally do not like to use it, I feel like the perk is a lazy slow down perk that happens passively, i like perks that i activate myself like pop.
Thats my basic views on the perk, a very strong perk that is painful to go against, but not necessarily op, i dont think its ever carried a poor killer for example.
0 -
I was dissaponted devs made all mangled timers infinite. It would me much better with 90 secs of mangled timer
0 -
Sloppy is fair and usually is only effective against teams who refuse to work on generators while injured form my personal experience.
Also I have beaten many killers using sloppy by just ignoring it as it turns out gen rushing kinda beats anti healing builds.
PS. They removed legion's Feral Frenzy applying sloppy a long time ago. So if they were inflicting mangled in Feral Fenzy they are using the defaced smilely pin add-on not sloppy butcher.
3 -
If I'm being honest, I'd rather Mangled be made stronger on add-ons that inflict it and then Sloppy itself just be re-worked into something else. I virtually never feel like I want to use Mangled add-ons because Sloppy exists.
0 -
Very fair comment, especially with that healing part. I too see that quite often and that's just another issue all together. For some reason some survivors need to be behind a wall before they can heal, despite the Killer being half way across the map and clearly chasing someone else...
0 -
Well that's quite odd in itself, probably because of the bleeding animation itself that causes that.
But realistically how often do you see Oni and Billy? Yes it only works with basic attacks, but Oni and Blight need to do those sometimes to get hits in. Especially Oni since his power requires basic hits to absorb blood.
As for Billy, I rarely see Billy anymore personally. Not sure if that's just me or that nobody plays him anymore after the chainsaw rework.
0 -
It's a decent perk but yeah there are bwtter ones. It counters self care pretty good since usually atleast 1 person is running it in every game.
0 -
Sounds like we see eye to eye. I also believe in what you've said, especially since I play Killer more and even I hate this perk. Sometimes I'll use it if I see 4 med-kits in a match, but even then it doesn't feel rewarding.
As for survivor, who doesn't hate healing for a longer portion of time? It just takes away from being chased and doing gens.
The only thing I disagree with is the carrying part. It isn't like other perks where some of them can carry a bad killer, but I'd argue it has done so from time to time, just because of the fact that some survivors refuse to heal because of the time restraint. You could argue that's their fault, but I could argue it's a lot more boring to heal with a 20% penalty then it's to get downed in one hit.
1 -
I would never ever consider Sloppy Butcher as an unfair perk.
Quite the opposite actually.It's a very well balanced perk.And rewards the player a bit more for their basic attacks.
It's not a perk that can carry the killer (e.g old Ruin) , because the killer has to put effort into getting value from it.
The fact that you can combo it very well with other perks is also a good sign of good perk design.
Also,you can choose to ignore it completely and save a LOT of time by doing that correctly.
4 -
This I can agree with, I never use mangled add-ons either for this exact reason. Why would I use an add-on on a Killer that applies the mangled effect, when I could just use Sloppy and a better add-on that could benefit me even more?
It's like the Blindness effect argument, the status effect itself on rarer add-ons isn't really helpful, so people question why its on something like Purple or Green add-ons.
0 -
The only thing I disagree with is the carrying part. It isn't like other perks where some of them can carry a bad killer, but I'd argue it has done so from time to time, just because of the fact that some survivors refuse to heal because of the time restraint. You could argue that's their fault, but I could argue it's a lot more boring to heal with a 20% penalty then it's to get downed in one hit.
That's a bit weird because every single perk in the game carries you to some degree.
If they don't heal,then that's on them.It's a risk they choose to take.And at the end of the day it's really only a 4 second longer heal so it's not that bad.
3 -
That and Botany, especially if it's a healing build or everyone is using med-kits. But sometimes not everyone uses med-kits or healing perks, which usually is more often then some people think.
So it kinda borders on unfair and fair when we're talking scenarios. But what isn't argued as unfair or fair when you bring that to the table.
That's a fair comment and I can actually agree with you for the most part. If you use Sloppy on most M1 killers that need help, it's quite fair in that regard. The perk can also be ignored outright, which can actually make it worthless if a team doesn't need to heal.
But I can also argue it isn't fair when we're specific on what it's paired with and who is using it (I.E. what Killer is using it). By itself I can agree it's fairly balanced, but I can't say it isn't annoying. OP? No, not even with other perks.
Like the example above, do you really want to face Legion who chain-stabbed the entire team and downed you with Sloppy? I personally wouldn't. But you can also argue that Killer isn't strong and could use the support. So really it just boils down to what's tolerable, since if we're talking perks themselves... annoying is sometimes worse then OP.
0 -
A fair point. Realistically it's like my reply to you suggests, people prefer to argue against what's tolerable then what's OP. Like is Spirit OP? Some argue yes and the stats usually suggest that's the case. Is Blight OP? Some also argue yes, but it really boils down to skill alone with their flicks.
All in all, my point is that people usually hate more annoying gimmicks then OP ones. But then you could argue the same for OP ones also being annoying in themselves. A fairly subjective thing really.
0 -
I cant really say if that's the end all solution, since some argue it's needed while some don't. Personally, it isn't the most outlandish suggestion to a change. 90 seconds isn't short, but you could argue it's a bit long. Perhaps 80?
0 -
Legion is a bad example because you almost never want to heal against him anyway (except in some case like basement rescues).
What exactly would you consider as unfair if we're talking about Sloppy?
2 -
I'm fine I dont run self care and I often have teammates that run after saveing me
0 -
I run sloppy on every killer, nearly every game. I favor consistent perks that I know I'm getting use out of. Additionally without it It feels like survivors heal in about a quarter of a second.
0 -
Well I could argue you should heal against him since that's primarily what will negate the power itself, but then you could argue not healing isn't exactly bad if you already have a grasp on looping in itself.
Perhaps saying it's unfair is strong, considering my comments suggest it's more akin to annoying then unfair. But if we're talking what exactly could make it unfair, I could probably give an idea.
For one, most survivors don't play in a SWFs team and we all know how dreadful solos is already. So when you add in something like Sloppy, it really can make things a bit tricky. Some survivors inherently need to heal everytime they're injured, either because they're not confident in their looping skills or they believe there's no risk in doing so.
The issue this brings is when everyone actively believes the same goal. I could even argue not healing when you don't have the skill to loop without the extra health state is also detrimental to the chase in itself. But this goes back into what you said before "it was their choice". Yes it's and them being downed because they refused to heal is also on them. But realistically it's not also just on them this also harms the team in itself because someone else has to go and get them.
This then sets off a chain reaction that potentially gets the "unhooker" hit with sloppy, then the rest of the issue ensues. Even now while I postponed sending this comment, I got a match with a Bubba using Sloppy. They were using Speed Limiter so obviously it's a fair trade, but the point is that the perk isn't that uncommon, probably because it's fairly balanced.
So in the end, it REALLY DOES just depend on the scenario honestly. I realized that after discussing this with the comments above, I might've in itself accidently mislabeled what I personally believe the perk to be. Is it unfair by itself? Not really, it's actually balanced like you suggested. But is it annoying? I would say yes, at least for me. This I believe is what I was getting at before, but I wasn't being as clear as I could be.
I'll change what I said above as well because the perk itself isn't what makes it unfair, rather it really just depends on what Killer has it, their combos, etc. I suppose in itself I can ask the question if it's unfair OR just annoying, because then that'd make a more interesting discussion.
0 -
Wish I had that, usually they just unhook me and let me rot. Sometimes I go the entire game without healing. Really just depends on the team I suppose.
I guess from that perspective it really does just depend on how you use it, rather then what it's for. If that makes sense.
1 -
Its fine to me besides the fact that my screen freezes when getting hit by a Killer who’s running it. Sometimes I’ll lose my footing and end up running into a rock or something, then go down because of how bad I froze.
0 -
Is that a console thing? Or are you on PC? I remember that being an issue in the past for console, so that's why I ask.
If you're PC though, then perhaps your specs just can't handle the sudden "blood fountain" animation when you're hit.
0 -
It's a poor optimization problem.
Whenever you get hit with a status effect,a survivors gets hooked/unhooked,a new icon appears on your screen (e.g Prove Thyself,Dying Light) you'll see FPS drops/screen freezes.
That's the case for all las gen consoles (PS4,Xbox One,Switch) and i guess Low to Mid end PCs.
1 -
Odd how an icon addition or change can do that.
0 -
I don't think its that great in general. I barely notice the difference most of the time. It also forces you to M1 for the effect so its not even very good on some killers. I think its an alright perk. If it activated on special attacks too, then yeah, I would hold it much higher but it doesn't so its not great but not bad either.
0 -
Kinda weak, it'll add about 3.6 seconds per regular heal on its own.
If you like the idea of those small additions adding up overall, or seeing potential in the small addition, or want to combine it for some anti-heal stuff, go right ahead.
I'm not digging it and also recently removed "Blind Warrior" - White (Sloppy Butcher in Add-on form for Wraith) from my Bloodweb preferences list.
0 -
I think that's why I'm seeing Sloppy + Thanato a lot right now.
Yeah, it's like you said it really depends on what Killer is using it.
1 -
My only problem with Sloppy Butcher are the small frame drops when the killer hits you with it. Other than that, I really like this perk.
As others have already pointed out here, Sloppy Butcher is a decent perk that rewards you for basic attacks. It works well with other perks and survivors can basically ignore it if they want to. A very balanced perk.
There is another reason why I like this perk, but it isn't very relevant to the discussion. If you allow me to share: I really like Sloppy Butcher because I absolutely despise fast-paced trials, so anything that slows the game down is a win in my book.
0 -
If you hate Sloppy just run Leader so your teammates always heal you quickly?
0 -
Sloppy Butcher is a fantastic perk. It does what it does well and, unlike so many people, I actually bother to bring healing perks because I'm not a sheep and I know, from my own experience, that the survivor meta isn't meta because it's the only strong perks survivors have.
My only problem with it is that it does nothing agaisnt your average sweat squad now that they've all gone back to running Adrenaline and genrushing.
Edit: And by "average" I do mean average, I'm not saying you can't beat them but also it does mean that you have a perk whose secondary effect is borderline useless in half the maps.
1 -
What if they don't have Sloppy? Then the perk is useless. The bonus is nice, but the bonus itself only adds so much if your team doesn't heal you or you yourself want to use other perks instead.
Honestly Botany helps more, since you can heal others afflicted with the mangled affect. Even if they're not, it's nice to have a 33% bonus to healing.
0 -
I dont have that issue with the frame drops, so unfortunately I can't relate.
And I can understand why you like the perk, it makes sense that the Killer wants the trial to go on longer so he can continue to play, rather then a team ending it as soon as possible. Which ironically makes the game dull if it just ends within 6 minutes or so.
1 -
That's fair, but I rarely see a good SWFs now a days. Even an average one is rare to find for some reason, it's usually just meme builds or cocky SWFs that just end in their death.
Also I don't see what you mean by "gone back to running Adrenaline and genrushing" since they've done that most of the time anyways. My guess as to what you mean is that the DS nerf loosened up a slot, so they're using that perk to fill it.
0 -
Wish I could say the same, but I always have to deal with little frame drops every time Sloppy Butcher comes into play. They are not that bad, just annoying.
And yes, the fast and sweaty type of DBD is the worst type of DBD. If I want to play killer, that means I want to enjoy a nice and slow game. Fast-paced trials are just dull and boring.
0 -
I think it all depends really. In my opinion, Sloppy is a well designed, powerful perk for most killers. Some killers don't even benefit running it though, for example my main Plague but that's because she renders healing impossible through her power.
I like to bring Botany Knowledge + Medkit or We'll Make It as I'm much more of an altruistic / healer type survivor and when I do, Sloppy doesn't affect me and my teammates at all since I can counteract the penalty. However, exceptionally good survivors can also counter Sloppy by simply not getting hit a second time. Builds exist that utilize Iron Will, Resilience, Dead Hard and whatever 4th perk you like so that when you're injured you are much more efficient and actually harder to kill.
So it's interesting that Sloppy can be really nasty when comboed with things like Thana or Nurses Calling but Survivors have a couple ways of countering it themselves. I really truly think it's a balanced, strong perk. At its worst it's annoying for sure but the only people who would call this "unfair" are likely people who don't understand how to deal with it.
0 -
Pretty great for m1 killers like trapper, hag, nurse, funslinger, doc, Freddy etc
0 -
I haven't really had it since the Ruin nerf. Now they've been replacing DS with Adrenaline and ahem have been leaning into its strengths.
0 -
Unfortunately some disagree with that, they want to end the game as soon as possible, by extension they want a challenge. Sometimes though seeking a challenge comes at the cost of limiting your expectations, which ALSO ironically limits what you consider is fun.
0 -
Which is usually the case when it comes to people saying X is unfair because of Y. They either don't understand how to counter it or just outright hate the perk and automatically label it unfair.
You can say we've all been at that point. But at the end of the day, it isn't a perk that could be called for a nerf. So in a way, that's all you can really ask for.
1 -
It's what it's, teams and players as a whole will naturally use what's the strongest at that time. DS was that exact thing, now it's something else. if it's not one thing, eventually another takes its place. Although in some cases, many would argue that players using DS less and Adrenaline more is a win win.
0 -
Sloppy butcher is a good anti-looping perk on ps4. You'll lose about 2 seconds of distance or will just run into a wall after getting hit
0 -
Yeah, but I also have a personal vendetta against Adrenaline because of the playstyle it promotes for both sides.
0 -
That is...deep, yet accurate. I've ran into such teams before and it is always a very unpleasant experience. I don't really seek a challenge, I just want to have fun. And fun in DBD is not fast-paced.
0 -
But... that just happens because a Survivor is not paying attention to what's in-front of them?
0 -
I used to think it was an unfair and overused perk, but it works well with my Oni. After i realized i didn't need Nurses Calling with it, it was the only perk i could think of that would benefit it most
0 -
Oh it absolutely is a console thing. I’m on PS4 and its awful.
0 -
Fair enough. I too hate Dead Hard with a passion and kind of wish the distance from it would get removed. (To clarify I hate the distance because of the DH for distance meme. The perk itself is primarily easy to bait)
We all dislike somethings, some more then others.
0 -
No. Your fps drop to about zero for a few seconds...and then you are teleported in which ever way you happened to hold left stick for those couple if seconds
0
