Just remove the hatch.
I know the game since May 2016. I remember the way the game was back then, so the hatch was needed. However, as years have passed, we got the EGC. So, good question, why not make it so when there is one survivor left, the EGC starts and the gates are powered?
Now, the keys have a different effect. They speed up the open gate process by 100%, so it halves the time required to open a gate. If the key is used on the gate, it is consumed, just like now.
Also, just set a rule that a gate can't spawn closer than 60 meters to the other one.
Comments
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Challanges and achievements can get changed, it happened before.
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Not on console really
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Yes they can if they are now unobtainable, this was stated many times.
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They can't change achievements as easy on console. And that pretty much would guarantee killers a kill endgame with many killers. The hatch can stay and should stay. This coming from a killer main
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As the last survivor, you are not entitled to win. You should have very low chances to do so. As I said, simply make it so the gates can't spawn close one to another. And yes, as I said, they can change them if they become unobtainable. And even if it takes them 2 years to change the achievement, it is not a game priority if you ask me.
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They don't even need to remove it, all they need to do is that if you're using a key it takes time to open it like how you have to hold the gate open for 20 seconds and have the killer be notified they are doing this like how there is a sound when the gates open and if you approach them while they are half open they glow red. Otherwise the entire team has a way of escaping without the killer even knowing.
Last survivor escaping is eh, nobody will derank or get less bloodpoints because 1 survivor left. It is however bullshit when that survivor spent one hour hiding holding the game hostage and they still find the hatch.
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No.
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*Something because my comment had to be approved and now I don't know how to delete it*
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This would literally ruin the fun of killer games for me. I usually kill everyone before all gens are done.
It would just mean someone would is stealthing around a gen until they prolong their deaths.
No thanks.
Oh also it’d make some survivors give up when they know they can’t do all gens. Hatch is a needed mechanic as it also checks the survivors thoughts.
Save the other the survivor on struggle or get hatch?
It adds such depth to the game and removing it would take lots of depth with it. Hard pass.
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I think you clearly missed my point. The hatch goes, but you still have the gates active and can use them to escape as the last guy. However, now you have a limited amount of time and it is no longer a gamble of who finds the hatch first.
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Gates still don’t give the gratification or the hope the hatch does.
It literally sings to you.
Basically the ONE nice sound in the game is the hatch.
And like, the new flush animation is just too funny to remove.
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If you can't bring an argument, just don't reply, please.
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Hatch needs to stay in the game for a variety of reasons, but a few changes could really help balance everything:
- Keys can slightly speed up exit gate times, as you suggested
- Keys require time to open the hatch as well
- Hatch is not visible until all gens are done or until one survivor is left
With these changes, survivors would have to think about which use of their key they want to try, and killer wouldn't have to worry about instant hatch escapes even if they've already closed it.
I think these three things could make both keys and the hatch more bearable overall.
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And what is that variety of reasons? Outside people feeling attached to it and achievements, what else?
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Well, for starters, how many times has RNG spawned exit gates basically right next to each other? As a last survivor, what's the point of even trying at this point?
Also, how would EGC start? Just as soon as the last gen gets done? What happens if all gens don't get done because the killer offed 2-3 survivors beforehand? Does EGC just randomly start as soon as you're the last survivor? What about people who want to farm? I've had plenty of times where a killer took pity on me because I was the only one doing anything and let me do a handful of gens and other things to get points. Does that not happen now because EGC just randomly starts in this scenario? It just seems needlessly complicated and weird.
I know there are also plenty of times I've played where questionable teammates throw the game basically from the beginning. Hatch gives people an incentive to stay in the game, regardless of what's going on. I'm not a DCer, but I feel without something like this, you'd see more DCs from survivors frustrated that they never had any chance to begin with.
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“On one rare occasion, I encountered an alternative way to escape. It suddenly dawned on me that I was the only remaining Survivor”
-V
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They changed the Mori and now the hook struggle phase so I guess anything is possible...
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It is fairly simple. As soon as you are the last survivor, EGC starts and the gates are powered. Basically, just as if the killer closed the hatch. The farming part is not an argument, farming in general is not meant to exist so there shouldn't be balancing around it.
Edit: I mentioned in the post, add a rule that a gate can't spawn less than 60 meters away from the other one.
Also, as it seems you didn't understand me. Replace the hatch with an instant EGC and gates powering when there's one survivor remaining. The hatch also doesn't spawn anymore if there is more than one person alive, it just doesn't exist.
As the last guy, your last resort is opening the exit gate, not looking around the map and then most likely open the exit gate.
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But you're taking out a way some people like to play the game, and the whole stance the devs always take for this game is "people can play how they want to play"
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Excuse me? So basically getting rid of immersive people that just let their teammates die is bad? Once more, you miss my point. Instead of looking for the hatch, you open the gate. And I think more than half of the community can agree that losing kills to the hatch is not a fun thing, it is not in your control to find the hatch first. Many survivors already look for the gates as the last person and wait the killer to close the hatch, so I don't see how this happening immediatly could be so bad.
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My argument is this is an unnecessary change. I shortened it to no.
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And if you get three kills, you're not entitled to the fourth. You've been through this entire song and dance before.
The hatch is necessary for game health, and is completely put out of play by slugging the second to last survivor. Even if you go for the 3K, you have the upper hand when it comes to finding the hatch since you move 15% faster than your opponent.
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Yes, I am entitled to the fourth. I killed your entire team, you are the sole person left. You have a chance to get out, but not as big as mine since I already did my job 3 times better than you did.
What I cannot understand is how you people don't get my suggestion. The last person has the doors to open, not to look for the hatch. Increase the distance between gates and everything is fine.
Also, do you think that it would be fair that when no one died, and the only objective left would be to open the gates, and all of a sudden the killer finds a button on the map that he presses and everyone dies instantly? It would be fair of you ask me, you're not entitled to escape the match. Afterall, the killer found the button so he deserves the 4k.
This is a necesary change. The hatch is an extremely outdated mechanic and it could easily be replaced with something that is fair for both sides.
Said it like 5 times already, achievements can be changed if they are now unobtainable. Microsoft and Sonny say this themselves.
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They actually allow for achievements to be changed in any situation. They are the most permissive.
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No, you are -not- entitled to the fourth kill. First off, you have no clue how your performance compares to survivor number four. Secondly, some arbitrary judgement of momentary skill display shouldn't settle the game. Thirdly, 'you have a chance to get out, but not as big as mine' is exactly where we're currently at, since, guess what? You can find the hatch faster. Since you are faster!
Increase the distance and everything is fine! Until you go up against Hillbilly, that is. Or Demogorgon. Or Oni. Or Spirit. Or Nurse. Or Huntress. Or Deathslinger. Or Twins. Or Blight. Or Trapper. Or Wraith.
No one died, only objective left is to open the gate, and suddenly someone gets instakilled? Yeah. That's NOED. It's already in the game.
YOU need to get over your entitlement. If I stomp a team into a 3K, I usually give the fourth the Hatch. Because that fourth kill is meaningless. 1v1, a survivor is utterly helpless, with the hatch levelling the playing field out a tiny bit.
And that's IF you allow it to, since you can just slug #3 and the Hatch doesn't exist anymore.
The game still massively favours the killer outside of swat team swiffers. We don't need the one thing that gives the last survivor a chance to be removed.
You want survivor #4? Work for it.
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Same argument. You want the escape? Work for it.
I don't care what you say, I am entitled to the 4th kill. I am entitled because you did NOTHING in the match and I killed your entire team.
But wait, now that you said it, I realized... You are right. As the last person in a match in which you didn't progress your objective while the enemy side did it... You have the right to win by a cheap mechanic. Indeed. And the other side is not entitled for the last kill because... Because... Because something.
Can you stop bringing the argument of "you don't know how good the last survivor is"? This game is not based on your overall skill, it is the skill you have in each match. And yes, in a team based game, you pay for the mistakes of your team.
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You don't know what survivor four has been doing. That could be the one that ripped up your Ruin, made you waste half a minute looking for them at a gen, the one that got four or five unhooks without you finding them or their unhook target. Yeah, maybe they didn't do gens, but they did literally everything else while their potato teammates crouched in a corner.
YOU don't get to make that call. YOU are not entitled to a free kill on the longest running survivor in the match.
Or do you want to run this kind of argumentation both ways? Perhaps once gen five is done and you don't have a kill yet, you get stunned for 40 seconds by the entity? After all, the survivors were clearly better, right? Even if you have them all on death hook and two slugged down in front of you. But circumstance and context don't matter. They did five gens, they win. Partial victories should just freely turn into complete ones!
Seriously, get over yourself. The Hatch is fine, fair and necessary.
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All of your arguments leave a huge room for a counter argument. The killer has to work for the 4k? K, the last survivor has to work for the escape. You are not entitled for the 4th kill on the longest standing survivor? K, you are not entitled to the escape against the killer that slaughtered your team. You can't know how good the last survivor was? K, you can't know how good the killer was for you to deserve the hatch.
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im kind of liking this change. the only thing i would add is to make it so the last survivor can open exit gates 25% faster without any items or perks
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They already do need to work for the escape. They need to make it to the hatch, unseen, before the killer does. That means perfectly balancing stealth with movement. Running everywhere is likely to get you caught, after all. But walking or crouching everywhere means you're not getting anywhere and the killer will likely find the hatch first.
Meanwhile, killer hold W.
That is what invalidates your counterargument. The survivor still DOES have to put the effort in.
And even if they do escape, what's the big deal? You came out as the winner in that match. What makes that fourth kill so important to you that you consider it a personal loss when someone gets out?
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And even if you die? What makes the escape so important that you consider it a personal loss when you die?
What makes it a loss for me? The last person didn't deserve the escape. And whatever you say, I will never agree that the last person deserves such an easy escape.
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Tbh, they should just make the timer be 3 mins in this situation. You have 2 minutes and 40 seconds to get to a gate and open it, fair if you ask me.
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This is a good counter-argument, I'm not gonna lie. But yes, I also do agree, the hatch is fair and necessary.
It annoys me when killers say I don't deserve the escape when I literally did 3/4 of the work for my team...
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Didn't deserve it -according to YOU-. And, again, it's not an 'easy escape'. More than half of all cases, the killer finds the hatch before the survivor does. And if the killer didn't, it's probably because the hatch spawned in before survivor #3 got killed, which means at least 3 gens were done.
You got three kills. If you can't consider that one a win, quit the game. It's NEVER going to bring you joy.
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So afterall, this isn't a debate of wether or not the hatch is fair. This is a debate on the removal of the hatch and it being replaced with the gates being powered. But YOU got this talk here, so I will leave YOU alone and be happy that the thread is forgotten because Gay Myers moved the thread in feedback and suggestions, removing any chance of the thread getting replies.
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If it's a debate on the removal of the hatch, it's a debate on whether the hatch should stay or not. It being fair is a big part of that.
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I don't believe you. No killer main in their right mind thinks hatch is fair.
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My gt is kos wolf86. I have plenty of videos proving I'm a killer main. Ds didn't bother me either. We are not entitled to 4ks. That and majority of games, I do find hatch first. 🤷♀️
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Nice.
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that would just be buffing keys because unless you are trapper or hag and the survivor has a key they get out for free no matter what you do
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I like the change. EGC is totally sufficent.
Hatch camping is bad.
People DCing / killing themselves on hook to give other people hatch is bad.
2+ people randomly escaping before gens are done is bad.
People that have done nothing the whole game escaping is bad.
Hatch is completly surv baised.
They have perks and items to find and open it ahead of time.
It favours SWF strongly. Nice.
I have to find it before them and close it and then do a 50/50 at the exit gates. Great.
If they have a key they can just open it again and escape. Super.
Do killers get a free kill if they do badly? No.
BTW the ten second limit on hatch when opend by a key on PTB is still a joke.
If you close it manually, suddenly you have a Post Game Collapse, no matter if gens were done against multiple people running to different exits. LOL.
Remove hatch, change the achievements, nerf keys into the ground like they did with Moris.
That would be a step to a more balanced game.
If the game would at least do a good job and be able the gage if a surv did well, by let's say for example doing the most gens and only allowing that person to escape, I wouldn't be bothered as much by it.
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