Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" showcases your ignorance about the perk and the game in general
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Oh I hate that so much. I remember the first time it happened to me. On Léry's, was trying to wait out someone's DH. There was a window in front of them, but I was a bit too close for a DH to work to get to it, and so I was basically on the survivor's ass and they DH's into the wall of the window and I was hitting them at the same time. I should have downed them then and there, but no aim assist made me smack the vault instead. I literally was like WTH when that happened to me. I knew why but that was my first instance of it and it shocked me.
That survivor tried to vault the window while I was whiffing but I managed to smack them. If they had spine chill + resilience they wouldve made it out the window.
The 360 Dead Hard's are also something else too. DH is the one perk that really affects how I play killer.
I 100% agree with this, and that sounds more balanced.
Hmm...this is interesting and would make using exhaustion perks more skillfull. I'm not sure precisely what I think about this, but it has promise I think.
It really boggles my mind when I see people talk about DH being not so great, or even that it sucks. "exhausted on the ground", "it doesnt work half the time"
Ok if it's such a weak perk then why is it one of the most popular survivor perks in the game? I very much can argue it's in the top 3, probably top 1 especially in red ranks. If only given the option to pick one perk, I'm pretty sure a survivor is either going to run Sprint Burst or Dead Hard as opposed to just DS/Unbreakable. A lot of survivors crutch hard on Dead Hard and you can tell because a lot of them drop like flies when they don't have it up for whatever reason.
That's fair if that's your experience. I have a relatively similar one with old DS. Never had an issue with it. Even as survivor I never liked old DS because I didn't like perks that had RNG value. So many consecutive games I'd not even use it.
Old DS was strong but because of solo queue, it wasn't that strong to me. And I was prone to slugging anyway. I think of old DS similarly to Adrenaline; it's strong when it's setup properly (like in a swf or something), otherwise its value is very RNG. It can be useless many times, it can be useful sometimes. It depends.
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To say that Dead Hard is all reward and no risk is a misunderstanding through lack of experience using the perk. Dedicated servers make it the opposite as you can Dead Hard, but it will be a 50/50 if you'll be exhausted on the ground. Yes Dead Hard can be annoying as killer, especially when all survivors are running it, but once they use it, you know they have it and can corral them into dead zones. Plus a good chunk of survivors aren't really good at using the perk, minus high ranking well experienced survivors.
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I like how so many hard core ignores the title of the thread and what the op said and still parrot "just bait it out" "it doesn't work half the time"
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You're asking rank 20 kids to take some responsability and fix the mess of a chase they got themselves into. You're asking too much.
It's better to cry "problematic" on a forum, calling people not agreeing with you "ignorant" and go on a rant about how a small dash forward is the cause of all your problems.
At the end of the day, Dead Hard won't get changed and they will keep losing and blaming the perk that is literally "Exhausted on the ground".
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This 100%. Since I started using Lithe instead of dead hard I've been having way better chases. Dead Hard works 50% of the time, if even that, and a lot of killers know how to deal with it.
Only killer dead hard is amazing against is nurse imo.
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Imagine complaining about me and others calling people ignorant but you insult by calling them rank 20s because they don't agree with you. Bigger cringe: using rank as an insult, and trying to act like a smart-aleck but not even being able to type properly.
You don't seem bright enough to be aware of this, but no one asked, nor cares about your approval you're trying so hard to make important, particularly when you have to mischaracterise, dramatise, and to many extents flat out lie about what was written about.
Writing about something in depth =/= crying
saying a perk is overpowered =/= "cause of all of [my] problems"
Those are thoughts that came out of your head, not mine. That's what you think and not me, and yet for some dumb reason you're trying to make me claim your own stupid thoughts. Keep your trash in your own territory.
You're trying too hard to act cool and your effort's showing. Don't quit your day job.
I don't see how maps being more safe (if that's what you were trying to say) has anything to do with DH. DH is used for distance and whether or not it's an unsafe or safe pallet doesn't mean much. If anything, it means more if there are more safe pallets, as it just makes the chase even harder.
The issue I have with Dead Hard is that there's nothing you can do as killer when used for distance and it acts as a third health state. You outplay someone in chase but they press E to undo their mistake and get another life. I don't describe that as a perk that's fine the way it is, especially when it can negate being downed over powers.
Dead Hard is most definitely my second-most used exhaustion perk; I have plenty of experience with it. Exhaustion on the ground is a thing, but like I said in my OP, if it was that much of a problem and the perk didn't work half the time or more, then why is everyone running it instead of Sprint Burst? If it was that bad it would not be ran nearly as much as it is now. Dead Hard is by far considered a meta perk. What sense does it make for a meta perk to be weak and not strong?
Knowing a survivor has DH or not doesn't mean much when it's used for distance. Zoning is a tactic in general sure but acting as if that's plausible in all, even most instances on all maps is not realistic. And it also varies on the killer as well. Demo can zone a lot better than, say, a Wraith.
edit: included above responses
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It's busted against killers who have good connection. Against a player with average or poor connection, you'll rarely use the perk effectively.
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I can understand this. My internet is pretty solid and not shoddy from my POV, so when I did actively use DH the exhausted on the ground thing never happened to me that much
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I typically play Killer more because I rarely play Survivor by myself and I'm not a Rank 1 Killer, the highest I've gotten is 5.
Dead Hard is not an issue for me. I've seen people use it to dash through traps, dash back behind me, dash forward and backwards through pallets and loops to pallet stun me. It's just a minor annoyance at worst.
In nearly all cases where its used against me it just results in getting a hit a couple seconds later, instead of getting that hit right then. Rarely does a use of Dead Hard end or significantly extend a chase.
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But...that’s all you need to do to counter NOED lol. You have the entire match to find the bones, even after it’s triggered, and there are multiple ways to speed up the progress. Sure sometimes you can get unlucky with spawns, but so can the killer.
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SB and DH are two of the most busted, broken perks in the entire game. But for some reason no one wants to acknlowedge it and everyone pretends that they aren't. Why complain? They'll never change them. At least other Exhaustion perks have pre-reqs, these just reward you for making a mistake, playing greedy, and making the game look stupid because you're butt hugging a survivor to wait it out. Using it for distance or for the things I mentioned can extend a chase for a long time, and SB even prevents that chase from ever even happening in the first place. Zoom, straight to the safest pallet while you wait til the very last second on the gen. Zero fear. Zero care of positioning. Sit on the gen sprint away. Don't forget the super low CD for perks every survivor uses on a ridiculously low CD!
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9 out of 10 dead hards never work against me, just saying.............
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This dense survivors that played 200 hours killer think they know anything about the other side. You guys look so stupid i hope you know that.
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200hrs pretty average weekly once upon a time.... 2 weeks give or take a day...a few times.....
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I am tired of these threads. The same old nonsense I read and I again I even read " that instances where Dead Hard prevents you from being downed can be swapped with having Endurance from Mettle of Man" which my friend shows YOUR ignorance about the perk and the game. I've explained already why in another thread you can check my history if needed to learn the difference between taking a hit with endurance and avoiding a hit with DH.
Since many have said enough here why DH is actualy just fine I will add how I look at it when I play killer. The perk has 2 effects - one is giving u a chance to avoid my hit and second - you may gain distance to get to a pallet or a loop if you can't reach them. The first effect would not work in 99% of time because I know when to hit and when to wait. The second effect I cannot deal with but that is perfectly fine because that is the effect of the perk. You could use sprint burst and gain distance at the start of a chase with the same success. There is nothing wrong with that.
People who can use DH successfully are these who have hundreds of hours in the game. You claim there is no effort to use the perk but I have to disagree. Dodgind a hit with it requires perfect timing that rarely people can pull off. Meeting such good players who can godge your hits every game will never ever happen. Otherwise many killers would be nerfed to the ground with that logic already cause the truth is the game has never been easier on the killer side ever. We can't balance the game around players who have 5k hours into the game when majority of the playbase are terrible terrible players /that is why also that new MMR system will be a big failure /
It is interesting you pointed out also why most other exhasuting perks are bad and why they need to be buffed esp Balanced that is such garbage garbage perk, with the new stun perk being the second close to it. Personally I want to use Head on all time but first the perks requires to bring a second perk with you and second the effective time u have to run after the stun is way too short since the change they made to the perk years ago /but they never fixed the stun duration/
In the end the only problem I see here is that people are getting annoyed because they get to deal with the same perk over and over again and come up with all kind of excuses but in reality that problem comes from the fact survivors have no reason to use anything else /aka devs wont make anything else usable or remotely good/
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I think it's a response that shows who ends up exhausted on the floor every time they use it.
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What I was saying was that in order to do one-hit downs, you either need set up, decently high skill, or the survivor to make egregious, repeated mistakes.
And you don't really need good aim for DH, you just need not godawful aim. If you don't DH directly into a wall or the killer, that just means you have some faculty with a mouse or controller. It isn't skill anymore than intoxicating a survivor as Clown, or shocking a survivor as Doc. If you fail a DH, that means either the server f*cked up or you did.
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One concept for a DH rework was that you would dash sideways instead of forward. You would dash to the side of you that the killer is farthest from, and the direction you dash would change slower than you can turn.
What I mean by "the direction you dash would change slower than you can turn," is that... well, imagine a line coming out of the survivor's side. When the survivor turns, the line would turn with them, after a short delay.
Upon dashing, you would lose all momentum unless you were already holding W again.
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You spent all that time writing this rant when you could've just taken a second to bait out the DH.
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just bait it out
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That's fair, everyone's experience is different. I had a similar one with old DS, but your experience even though you've not been a rank 1 killer is valid. I still saw lots of Dead Hards even in green and purple ranks, but I'd just argue you see it the most in red ranks, but with how wonky matchmaking normally is you've probably had plenty of rainbow-matchmaking experience like everyone else.
Ah I see, I assumed that was what you were trying to say but the double negatives just made me think you meant the opposite. Normally I'll just treat it like some maths equation where there's two negatives together that create a positive.
I also didn't play back then so I don't have experience in what you're talking about (not that I'm saying you're lying or anything). At least often with me when I play killer, even if I wait out DH, many times I get players who know how to use it well. They don't fall for the baits (the bait I learned is for some killers fake using your power or if you're only an m1 killer in chase, flicking upward quickly) unless they're in a dead zone and they had nothing else to do in the first place. I'm typically very patient about DH because it's not like I don't want to counter it but it is frustrating as hell to be denied a down because someone pressed E.
I know DH isn't the most absolute strongest exhaustion perk, but it's the most common in the games I play I'd say. I remember relatively recently I was playing Wraith and I went against a swf who all used Sprint Burst and they knew how to use it well and time it well. A squad of people who know how to use Sprint Burst, to me at least, is definitely more lethal than a squad full of DH's, but most people don't know how to time it properly and efficiently so I don't see it often.
It could also be a mental thing as well since I have respect for those players as well since it requires more effort. For DH it just requires pressing E.
The issue I have with NO ED in solo queue is the lack of information. You have no idea who else has done a totem and you basically have to search the entire map to certify if all the totems have been cleansed, wasting so much time that can cost you the game since you're not doing the primary objectives.
When I would play in SWFs often, we were able to say who did a totem and where, and basically pause the game when we needed to and prevent from finishing the last generator to find totems. I remember once playing with some randoms in the discord we were playing against a doctor who I was suspicious of having NO ED. I said to the group to 99% the last generator and look for the rest of the totems. The map was Mother's Dwelling, and I had already done two. We managed to get the other three done and he actually did indeed have NO ED.
If that was a solo queue game that was going more hectic I would not be able to do that. I would be wasting time instead of pressuring generators when there are teammates on the verge of death hook and instead of also taking aggro for them (if I could afford that, at least).
Want to switch servers?
I mean, in red ranks you are pretty much designed to go against survivors who have hundreds of hours. I haven't gotten rainbow matchmaking in a while and as of late I very rarely get lower tier ranking; generally at most purple ranks. If it's late at night sure I'll get some greens.
The problem I have with DH is that if there's a pallet/window in front of you that you otherwise would not make, you press E to make it there. That doesn't require much skill to learn to use. And yes Sprint Burst has a similar effect, but it's more difficult to maintain because it overrides the normal running function. I personally prefer Sprint Burst over Dead Hard, particularly but I still can see DH being super strong.
When I talked about the other exhaustion perks, it was not intended for that to be bashing them. It was just to describe how they require more effort to use. I also totally forgot about Smash Hit because of the current pallet-stun bug; I almost never saw people run it.
There is nothing wrong with survivors using strong perks, I didn't mean to imply they shouldn't be running it simply because I or others don't like it. On both roles you're going to get complaints about perks you use or killers you use. It was more of a rant on my side because I think the dismissal of simply saying "just bait it out" is not fair to say and largely misunderstands the issues people have with the perk.
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@kyogul This post just speaks volumes for how one-sided and pervasive your views are.
The problem with Dead Hard is that it's a ctrl+z command for survivors in an exhaustion perk, and is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk, and has exploitable i-frames. If you get outplayed at a chase by a killer, all you do as a survivor is press E to deny an instance where you would otherwise get downed and extend a chase for longer than it should have been because you got rewarded for being injured and received a quasi-third health state. In many instances where Dead Hard prevents you from being downed can be swapped with having Endurance from Mettle of Man. And you did nothing of substance or effort to get said Endurance effect either.
Dead Hard is not a CTRL+Z button that you can use to erase your mistakes. DH is an exhaustion with on demand activation. It's popular bc it is easy to use but hard to master. Someone extending the loop is not robing you of a kill, it's using a resource they allocated a perk slot for.
Dead Hard for distance can't be baited out. You can't make someone use Dead Hard, let alone does baiting matter when there's a pallet or a window right in front of them. Baiting only works on [BAD WORD] players.
Exhaustion perks are strong, META and like any other META perk (BBQ, DS, etc) should be excepted by you unless ruled out. If someone SB out of a gen, you can chase them without fear of DH, same for BL, Lithe, SH or Head On. But if you don't see a survivor using any of the previous, don't fell cheated if they DH for distance. You're not entitled to a down for chasing a non-exhausted survivor.
Exploiting of i-frames:
You can Dead Hard to prevent from getting hit by exploiting its i-frames. Examples: Dead Harding through/into Punishment of the Damned (POTD). If you were to use Lithe or Sprint Burst and run into POTD, you'd get injured. If you used DH to get across POTD (or even to launch yourself in the same direction as it), you would prevent from getting hit.
From the Wikipedia, notice the NOT INTENDED.
In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner NOT INTENDED by the game's designers.
Now read the description:
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
Avoid any damage during the Dash.
Now, i-frames are intended, not an exploit. Repeat with me to reinforce that knowledge since you have trouble reading descriptions and searching for definitions.
Exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
Exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
One last time, exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk:
Dead Hard is the only perk that involves no setup, no risk, but all reward. You get injured and you get a free third health state on command with no effort to use on your part. Congratulations you can now outplay your opponent because you pressed E on your keyboard.
Right here I cannot tell if you're intentionally misleading or just being oblivious. DH has an easy on-demand activation, but is highly inconsistent for dodging hits, virtually rendering half of the perk useless. If a killer perk like STBFL or PoP only worked as intended half of the time you'd know the struggle it is to use DH.
Also to the people who say Dead Hard isn't a strong perk because "eXhaUsTed oN thE GRoUnD" and whatever other non sense, then why is it arguably one of the most used exhaustion perks in the game, and more specifically the most used exhaustion perk in red ranks (or in other words, the highest rank in the game) ? Why is it always included in meta builds? Do you think people run DS/Unbreakable/Borrowed Time but put on a "[BAD WORD]" exhaustion perk, or an inferior one compared to something else stronger they can use for shites and giggles?
To answer this question ask yourself the reverse: why they don't use other exhaustion perks?
BL has zero activation tiles in Shelter woods and Gas heaven. There are also many others with a random chance to spawn a hill such as Suffocation Pit, Wrecker's yard, etc. Equipping BL is betting on playing the game with 3 perks.
I have not tested SH yet, but at least it seems promising.
Lithe prevents you from using windows while in CD. For most players, it's rather inconvenient.
SB is the only real contender so far, and one with a lot more skill expression IMO, as you can 99% it and have a much better effect than DH for distance ever could.
Head On is a joke.
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I am a killer main. I main death slinger who isnt even to tier. DH is fine and I don't bait it out I just play and most times they use it I catch up or they make a pallet nbd. Sprint burst is much worse as imo as easy to manage it and most times prevents killer from 1st hit, and when used to full potential, a survivor can make it to a better loop of their choosing.
You also forget insta downs completely negate DH. Let that sink in. DH is risk/reward and most situations doesn't pay off against me. If you want to complain about something to actually help the game, talk about gen speeds.
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Can I use this for my English presentation on irony?
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@kyogul because you conveniently chose to ignore a rebuttal that actually shuts down your issues with Dead Hard, I'll repost...
Stop asking why it is the most used exhaustion perk.
Historically, there is no correlation in DBD between the best and the most used.
Freddy is the most picked killer, but he is not the best. Nurse is the least picked killer, but she is the best.
Dead Hard is being used for similar reasons.
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Surprising how many people thing DH is fine when it literally gives people a mistake-eraser button. Let's not forget it completely avoids traps which is entirely dumb.
If I have a pallet trapped and someone unknowingly runs to it, I should be rewarded for forcing them into it. They should not be able to press a button to completely negate traps I set up. Same applies for DH for distance, if I successfully mindgame them, they shouldn't be able to press a button to erase a bad play.
Considering how much this one perk does and how often it's used, people should see the issue. Imo, it should act sort of like a Doctor shock and disable vaults + pallets for a couple seconds.
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Dead Hard is fine. If you can't beat it, play survivor.
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######### a survivor used dead hard to dodge one of your shots, not only is that hard to achive on it´s own but u just would have to reload for like 2 secs to shoot again?
I hope u wanted to troll and this wasn´t a serious complain
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Ruin nerf? What nerf? Ruin is much more powerful now than before the rework. Ask any really good killer mains and they will tell you new Ruin is better. The only way new Ruin is bad to people are the ones who can't utilize the it properly.
They've addressed DS, Balanced Landing, Undying, Mettle of Man, buffing under-used perks, like Tinkerer, Second Wind, Any Means Necessary, etc., and a few other perk changes.
While they aren't doing a fast job at this by any means whatsoever, they've definitely been looking at perks slowly over time. Admittedly, mainly survivor ones.
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See that's where you're wrong. They didn't "dodge" my shot.
My ######### HIT them, I got the hit notification and the BP for it.
But because it was during their DH activation the spear doesn't work.
I literally hit them, they didn't dodge anything their invincible frame did all the work.
Now I could understand if dead hard actually required you to dodge, but give you a whole invincible frame? #########
also you don't play enough killer because it's harder than you think to land a shot after their dead hard and "just reload and shoot" is not as easy as it sounds when even a missed hit could cost you the game.
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The perk is fine the way it is. If I don't see a Sprint or a hill run then I'm assuming a dead hard.
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Ruin much powerful than before 🤣😂😅 nice joke.
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Dead Hard is not a CTRL+Z button that you can use to erase your mistakes. DH is an exhaustion with on demand activation. It's popular bc it is easy to use but hard to master. Someone extending the loop is not robing you of a kill, it's using a resource they allocated a perk slot for.
The ctrl+z was an analogy and said figuratively, not sure why it was taken literally. I don't particularly agree with hard to master, since DH's strongest use is for distance to a resource. The act of looping efficiently itself is what is hard to master but not using DH.
Exhaustion perks are strong, META and like any other META perk (BBQ, DS, etc) should be excepted by you unless ruled out. If someone SB out of a gen, you can chase them without fear of DH, same for BL, Lithe, SH or Head On. But if you don't see a survivor using any of the previous, don't fell cheated if they DH for distance. You're not entitled to a down for chasing a non-exhausted survivor.
This is no new information that I haven't already been doing. I generally expect DS/DH in every game unless shown otherwise.
I never said, nor implied that I was entitled to a down. I just said it feels ######### and I don't think it's fair considering how it's done. Feel free to disagree but you're not an authority and in no position to tell me what I meant to say. Stop putting words in my mouth.
From the Wikipedia, notice the NOT INTENDED....
Of all the sources you could have chose...you chose wikipedia. You can consult actual official dictionary sources that align with my usage of the word exploit:
Merriam-Webster:
to take unfair advantage of
Cambridge Dictionary:
Collins Dictionary:
If you exploit something, you use it well, and achieve something or gain an advantage from it.
Video game exploit isn't a term in the dictionary. An exploit is an exploit, and the general definition also applies to video games.
Whether or not you agree it's unfair is a subjective assessment, but I used the word correctly and I have actual citations from sources to validate my usage.
Right here I cannot tell if you're intentionally misleading or just being oblivious. DH has an easy on-demand activation, but is highly inconsistent for dodging hits, virtually rendering half of the perk useless. If a killer perk like STBFL or PoP only worked as intended half of the time you'd know the struggle it is to use DH.
This is funny coming from the person who just unironically used Wikipedia as a source, and on top of that quoted an excerpt that can't even be verified. You aren't in a position to morally posture about misleading and being oblivious. Know your place
DH is my second-most used exhaustion perk, I'm aware of the occasional exhausted on the ground issue. Never been that much of a problem to me, and evidently not that much for other people as they run it all the time. If a perk is that buggy and inconsistent then you wouldn't run it often, if at all. Months ago, when killer auras were bugged I tried running Alert. It worked half the time and its use was inconsistent, and subsequently I stopped running it. I, nor anyone else, generally want to run perks that are useless half the time/don't work half the time.
To answer this question ask yourself the reverse: why they don't use other exhaustion perks?
You are aware that I've already said this precise thing elsewhere in the OP/thread, right ? Why are you rehashing my points and trying to use it as a "gotcha" explanation?
I've already said DH is one of the more powerful exhaustion perks in the game and generally easier to use for its strength in comparison to other exhaustion perks. Sprint Burst can be better, but many people don't know how to time it well to make it better than DH. I also literally said in my OP it takes more effort to maintain Sprint Burst. Why are you now copying what I said and acting as if that's a contradiction to my argument?
You mean the fictional irony that's trying to be superimposed onto me? Go ahead, I'll be sure to add your response in a gallery of crappy comebacks.
Unless I don't feel like continuing a conversation--which I'm not obligated to answer anyone--then I'll respond to dissidents as I have no problem with people disagreeing with this topic, and I already have done that.
Where did I question why DH was popular? That was never a talking point of my arguments.
I'm also not sure how much the paywall argument is valid. You have DS, a perk behind a paywall, and it's still one of the most used perks in the game.
I also have said multiple times I do not believe that DH is the absolute best all around. In summary, I've basically said it is used widely because of its relative ease to use accompanied with being rather strong.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on1 -
Go to literally any killer main's stream and they will tell you new Ruin is more powerful... Idk. OhTofu and Zubat are both that have stated new Ruin is better. Old Ruin was only better for bad killers.
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Not really, ruin was changed because it wasn't friendly to new players and found tedious by some survivors. That's the truth. Find a true imparcial killer or player and they will tell you the same thing i said to you.
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The ctrl+z was an analogy and said figuratively, not sure why it was taken literally. I don't particularly agree with hard to master, since DH's strongest use is for distance to a resource. The act of looping efficiently itself is what is hard to master but not using DH.
It was not taken literally, and DH is hard to master. It takes precision and reading to dodge a hit with it while running and possibly looking backwards. That's what differentiates common users from really good ones.
This is no new information that I haven't already been doing. I generally expect DS/DH in every game unless shown otherwise.
I never said, nor implied that I was entitled to a down. I just said it feels [BAD WORD] and I don't think it's fair considering how it's done. Feel free to disagree but you're not an authority and in no position to tell me what I meant to say. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Darling, you're using exploit to describe an intended mechanic that you don't like. We should attach that as the example of entitlement in any of the Dictionaries you listed.
Of all the sources you could have chose...you chose wikipedia. I learned in grade school that this isn't a valid source to cite for very obvious reasons, but I guess others didn't. You can consult actual official dictionary sources that align with my usage of the word exploit:
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Video game exploit isn't a term in the dictionary. An exploit is an exploit, and the general definition also applies to video games. A random and unreliable article on Wikipedia--a source that even my 11 year old cousin knows not to cite--is not going to cut it.
Whether or not you agree it's unfair is a subjective assessment, but I used the word correctly and I have actual citations from sources to validate my usage. On top of that, the excerpt you quoted isn't even verifiable. You can't even access the page in the book it cites. Yikes
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This is funny coming from the person who just unironically used Wikipedia as a source, and on top of that quoted an excerpt that can't even be verified. You aren't in a position to morally posture about misleading and being oblivious. Know your place
Yes, I used wikipedia bc I am not writing an essay for my teachers/supervisor. None of the sources you conveniently listed AFTER criticizing mine has the definition of a video game exploit as you said, but they also do not have i-frames and that didn't detain you from using it.
That 11 year old source that you are so quick to dismiss references books and articles in game design, the area pertaining this discussion. Now do yourself a favor, put your pride aside, and take your head out of the hellhole of a High School where you learned to research. Yikes
DH is my second-most used exhaustion perk, I'm aware of the occasional exhausted on the ground issue. Never been that much of a problem to me, and evidently not that much for other people as they run it all the time. If a perk is that buggy and inconsistent then you wouldn't run it often, if at all. Months ago, when killer auras were bugged I tried running Alert. It worked half the time and its use was inconsistent, and subsequently I stopped running it. I, nor anyone else, generally want to run perks that are useless half the time/don't work half the time.
Exhausted on the ground is not an "occasional" issue. After the game was changed from P2P to dedicated servers 2 latency factors were introduced: survivor-server and killer-server. According to the official documentation, DH has a 0.5 sec i-frame, but hit validation only accounts for the killer verification. Dead Hard is impossible to use as a reaction as it's not dependent on your latency only, but the killer's too. You essentially have to read the killer and predict the hit to use it. That's why it's hard to master, and that's also why SB is more popular.
You are aware that I've already said this precise thing elsewhere in the OP/thread, right ? Why are you rehashing my points and trying to use it as a "gotcha" explanation?
I've already said DH is one of the more powerful exhaustion perks in the game and generally easier to use for its strength in comparison to other exhaustion perks. Sprint Burst can be better, but many people don't know how to time it well to make it better than DH. I also literally said in my OP it takes more effort to maintain Sprint Burst. Why are you now copying what I said and acting as if that's a contradiction to my argument?
Bc that's the question you asked in your OP. I had it quoted to help you navigate in my answer, but since you're having trouble I'll bring it again for you.
"...then why is it arguably one of the most used exhaustion perks in the game, and more specifically the most used exhaustion perk in red ranks (or in other words, the highest rank in the game) ?"
Now, I may be a fool for further engaging in such a pointless discussion, but not the kind asks question and gets mad when it's answered.
Xoxo
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So I'm not the best player in the game but I've played against a lot of red ranks as killer due to busted match making, I will say match making is the biggest problem the game has had and continues to have because typically anything too bad gets caught in PTB. I've also played a lot of survivor and my problem with your arguement regarding POTD and traps is hag trap radius is big, in fact too big to dead hard through, dodging POTD is a one time thing, congrats next time around that loop or in the next loop you get caught in it, the only killer it really hard counters is trapper. So only countering one killer seems like pretty good balance if you ask me. Dead hard is also difficult to use because of baiting out dead hard, you don't get the distance other exhaustion perks give you so if you dead hard early you make no distance, dead hard late and you're exhausted on the ground, either way you take a hit. Other exhaustion perks have the benefit of distance, even if you dead hard a swing you don't gain the same amount of distance, what makes it stand out is the versatility, rather than just running away you get I-frames, which enables you to dead hard through a trap or a POTD, you can dead hard through a hit after unhooking forcing a hit on a survivor with BT, dead hard to a pallet or window, you sacrifice the safety of freely running away for the versatility of the perk. Lithe and sprint burst are low rank meta because it's a get of chase free card, either end a chase with lithe or prevent it with sprint burst. Dead hard is high rank meta because they have the skill to capitalize on that perk, it helps in chase to extend chases, high rank everyone knows how to and wants to loop, so everyone is gonna run the bread and butter chase perk.
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.... people complaining about Dead Hard.
Of all the perks you can complain about... you complain about Dead Hard.
FFS, I'm a ######### killer main and this attitude baffles me.
A perk that 90 percent of the playerbase can't even use right.... we aren't balancing for the top 10 percent. Fact you expect the game to be balanced around the best players after all these years is laughable.
You're wasting your time....
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I love Dead Hard, I enjoy playing against it , I think it should stay as is :)
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Brushing aside the moot point on how easy it is to use dead hard, which is misleading, the difficulty of using DH comes in judging when to use it, not actually pressing the button, nobody's telling you to bait out a DH for distance, and if they are, you need to block that psycho as soon as possible. You can bait out a DH that is used to evade a swing. That's the contention.
When used at a loop, nobody's saying to bait one out (at high ranks anyways, low ranks DH the moment they hear the terror radius). At that point, it's just a loop extender. If used responsibly, meaning that you get optimal usage out of it, it'll bring value. However, if the DH will overshoot the target, which is usually a window or a pallet, it becomes useless, even detrimental, as it can force a medium vault.
But it still does have more usage than balanced landing and the such. That's because, in total, DH will give you less gained ground than those perks. The sprintburst-type exhaustion perks help you get to a loop, which is why they need to cover more ground. DH is meant to extend a loop as a "Hail Mary" of sorts. As such, you still need to know how to loop, and you need to be in an optimal setup, although good positioning will help you get the most out of any given situation.
The other thing is that this complaint of "no setup, all reward" applies to a lot of killer powers and survivor perks. That's the point; they enhance your skill. Clown's bottles are free slowdowns. Blight's power is quickly closing distance. The rest of the exhaustion perks are no different; they gain ground to no cost. Dead hard isn't any different.
But what it is, is that when it works, it's much more apparent. When a baby Meg sprintbursts to a loop, and that extra distance preemptively allows her to loop more times than she would have been able to without, it's not obvious and in your face. When a DH comes in at the last second, it's the same effect, albeit weaker as the total distance gained vs. what you would have gotten otherwise is smaller, but its effects are much more observable. With the sprintburst, you won't think about how that sprintburst just gave her that extra loop. But with DH, it's happening in your face, in real time. It gives off the appearance, but not necessarily the effect, of being ridiculously strong.
Ultimately, DH isn't an awful perk just because it feels cheap by helping you out. Botany knowledge doesn't even need a key input, but those quick heals will give you a reward far greater than DH. Ultimately, the point of every single perk is to help you win. Some trade accessibility for effect, some vice versa. Some are big and bombastic and blatant, others are subtle.
And it's of no worth to degrade the skill of using DH. If DH were as ridiculously EZ to play, you'd see a bunch of rank 20 Megheads getting 4 man escapes by pressing E. You need to know how to already loop, and you need to know how to loop in such a way that you can position yourself for an efficiently-used DH.
And one thing to leave off on, is that calling anybody who disagrees with you "ignorant" is incredibly self-righteous and vain. Not only is it detrimental to the spirit of actual discourse, which is the point of forums, it's just plain nasty. This is a very toxic game, by nature, and tempers are going to run high, but there is no need for such vitriol. You can air your grievances about dead hard without the sanctimony, and you'll get a much better response in return. I'm sure that neither of us are on these forums for the sole purpose of being antagonistic, so let's not be instigators.
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OP and unfair are really strong words for DH i think annoying is better
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I didn't say why it was changed. 😝 I was just stating that old Ruin is weaker to what we have now.
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Apparently it's so hard to know than irony is often personified as Irony. So I guess we'll have to get the 9th grade English textbook.
The claim that objecting to DH displays ignorance is situational irony, demonstrated in that although the speaker claims that the audience members in question are ignorant, it is actually the speaker who is ignorant by applying a blanket term of ignorance to anybody who disagrees.
Moreover, in the statement, "You mean the fictional irony that's trying to be superimposed onto me," it is clear that the speaker holds a very high view of his or herself, and assumes that they are not, in fact, ignorant. They are averse to the prospect of being ignorant. This is the manifestation of hubris.
And speaking of r/iamverysmart or whatever it's called (regardless of your opinion of me I'm smart enough to stay away from Reddit), that's not how you use the word, "superimpose." To superimpose means to lay something on top of another object, as in masking. One does not superimpose irony in any turn of phrase. One does not put irony on a person, metaphorically or physically. One points out irony.
If you want to be petty and pedantic, be my guest. I have all spring break and 5 packs of redbull.
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Thing is, once you see deadhard one time, unless you have a bad memory, it almost never works more than 1 time. At least not on me. I just go into every game assuming people have deadhard. And most of the time, it's not an issue for me
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Learn to read, I'm a killer MAIN
Look me up on steam, look at my achhievements. Do you see rank 1 or even rank 5 survivor achievements?
Basically it comes down to this... I disagreed with you, you read what you wanted to read and dismissed me purely because I disagreed.
So kindly ######### off
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I agree with most of your post; I don't believe I have much to add, but I'll try to give my two cents
I didn't say it in my OP, but I did mention in an earlier post how the effectiveness of DH comes from already knowing how to loop, rather than when to time the perk/how to use the perk. The perk is as good as you make it, basically. And I understand that the average survivor isn't great or anything (including myself), but DH for distance feels #########. I know not everyone feels the same and they don't have to but it feels really cheap when you can't do anything about it, and I wrote the post because I constantly kept seeing people just say "bait it out" when in many scenarios that's not possible to do. And it feels worse when stacked in a trial.
Though I have my own opinions about which perk is better/more powerful or whatever, it's by far not objective and wasn't meant to be. There are problematic killer perks and powers that also are problematic, and it's not to say that simply because I have my thoughts on DH they aren't problematic still. It was just to talk about that one frustration rather than say this is the worst of the worst, like saying it's as bad as spirit's power or something.
Like I was saying before, Sprint Burst is stronger than DH when used right, and I do agree that being outplayed by DH compared to Sprint Burst is more apparent, but DH is used a lot more in red ranks from my own observation. I can only assume why, but I presume it's because of it being a chase extender. Sprint Burst denies the chase even initiating and imho is more geared to stealthing, particularly if an entire squad has it.
In regards to lower (higher? this has always confused me) ranks not using DH as much, I do think Sprint Burst is more accessible and its effectiveness is more blatant than for DH. I also believe Meg is a more popular character than David but I may be wrong.
In regards to the "ignorant" bit, the intention and the implication was to never call anyone specifically ignorant in general. It was to point attention to say that what they're saying is ignorant, or therefore their words about this particular topic are ignorant, not them in general. That's why I titled the topic in such a specific way. I never said anything like "people who say bait out DH are ignorant", I said saying that showcases your ignorance about the topic [and the game]. Nothing to do with their overall intelligence. Plenty of people have disagreed and they have proper reason to, and that's fine. They aren't ignorant for doing so. But I do truly believe it is an ignorant thing to just brainlessly say "bait it out" when DH is used for distance. Sure you can bait out a DH in a dead zone or basically when they're not capable of making any resources, but many times you are next to one in some shape or form.
than? did you mean that?
I also have no idea how you got that I was calling anyone who disagrees ignorant. My title literally says the following:
Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" showcases your ignorance about the perk and the game in general
Let's analyse this, shall we?
"showcases your ignorance about the perk and the game in general"
None of that has anything to do with overall intelligence, let alone overall if you disagree that DH is a strong perk or whatever. Plenty of people have disagreed for a variety of reasons. They aren't ignorant nor did the OP even imply that. That's just you misunderstanding. I wrote it in a specific way too to make that obvious.
Also more projection. I don't think highly of myself about this topic. Do I think I'm right in the regards to the whole "saying 'just bait out dh' when it's used for distance is dumb" bit? Yea, but that has nothing to do with me being arrogant or cocky. Doubling down on something you say/being confident about it has nothing to do with hubris.
If you can showcase that I'm being ignorant then I welcome you to. But thus far you've talked about misinterpretations of what I said and then projecting what you wrongly assumed I meant onto it and other things. That's not me thinking highly of myself, that's me simply disagreeing with things that are untrue. You are setting up the narrative of "if you disagree with my assessments you are therefore showcases irony and being arrogant".
There is no stipulation for superimpose to involve objects. It's a figure of speech meant to be similar to projection.
I'm not being pedantic and petty, I'm just refusing to be fed shite and told it's sugar and then being called arrogant or whatever else because I disagree.
It's fair if it's not an issue for you. I had a similar experience with old DS. Lots of people complained about it, but it was never an issue for me. Everyone's experience is different
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Well since it turns out that the 5 packs of redbull I mentioned earlier are not giving me the energy boost needed to keep my fingers moving at top speed for enough time to write another dissertation, I'll just leave it off with that:
1) Dead hard is frustrating, undeniably, but sometimes we need to think about things from a wider perspective, including in terms of time. Reworking it, meaning that you buff some parts, nerf the most frustrating parts, would be a good call.
2) Sprintburst is the worst exhaustion perk lololololololol fight me
3) Smash hit is the best exhaustion perk
4) I'm not kidding
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You won't respond, because you have no logical argument to present.
People with actual ideas don't hide behind pretentious jabs while standing on glass pedestals.
I read your OP (in its entirety), I addressed all the points in your main argument while speaking to another member of the forum, and you have zero rebuttal. Get off your high horse, kid.
You lost this argument.
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lol OP lost in argument, meanwhile babbling another else, this is why majority player see forum as killer based.
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I didn’t read much after the second paragraph cause your post couldn’t be any more wrong and I can’t believe you have that many people agree with it. I play both Killer and Survivor and Dead hard is probably one of the most misused exhaustion perks, simply because in most cases it won’t continue the chase for longer. If I’m killer and I’m chasing someone down, I give them like a second when I catch up to use dead hard, if they don’t use it after like a second or two of catching up, it’s not there.
The only way it’s used right is when the survivor is very very close to a pallet or a window and need that extra bit of distance to make it, in such a case, knowing the survivor could have dead hard, you still take the chance as killer and swipe at them, if they don’t have it you’ve downed them, if they do have it, you’re not getting them anyway but still take the gamble.
In my experience most people just use Dead hard wrong where they extend the chase to maybe like 5 seconds more and end up going down.
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