Survivors Using Keys Shouldnt be Counted as a Loss
Just had a match where the survivors were losing badly. One was gone and they had three genned themselves and all the gens were close by. Of course hatch spawned close by them. So I was playing great right? Well too bad, time to be punished for it. One of them found a key in a chest, all three got together, and left. I went from an easy 4k to a 1k in a blink of an eye. How is that any tiny shred of fair? Killers should not be punished like this. Hatch is the cowards way out and Killers should at least get extra BP for survivors taking the easy way out of the game. Instead, it’s a win for them and a loss for me, even though there was literally nothing I could do to stop them. I couldn’t even close the hatch cause one of them was bodyblocking allowing the others to use it.
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What are we considering a "loss" here? I don't think even BHVR knows exactly what winning or losing is in official terms.
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If the Entity is Displeased I count that as a loss. I think 1k is a loss, 2k a draw, and anything more is a win. The fact these survivors could all one after another use the hatch was loads of BS.
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I can’t think that way and probably most killers shouldnt. A lot of killers are casual. If everyone thought that way then people would just leave the killer side cause of constant losing.
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This is pretty much what I treat as wins or losses as well, except if one escapes through the hatch I still consider it a win on my side. If they escaped through the exit gate, I call it a tie.
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Lmao I've had that exact same thing happen to me. Just because the emblems count it as a loss doesn't mean you have to. I personally count it as a win if no one escapes through a gate. Sorry you missed out on bloodpoints and stuff though.
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The fact that grinds my gears is Killers are punished for ending the match early, aka slugging and etc, by less BP and the like, but it’s fine for survivors to end the match early when hatch spawns. It makes my blood boil cause you know those survivors think they “outplayed” me by using a key.
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That’s literally not how that works. Unless you bring Franklins, even then it’s easy to counter. Let’s take like a second to use and the hatch spawned right in the middle of the three gen they did. Instead of getting punished for their mistakes they instead got rewarded and escaped.
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Yeah, that's fair.
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They did not have a key before the match. They found it in the match. I’m not the best or even a great killer but I corralled them into a three gen and two were on death hook. Not to mention it was the Shrine map aka a huge ass map. I think I did decent with this strat. Instead I got punished for it by the hatch spawning right at their feet and the game giving them a key in a chest.
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this happened to me at backwater swamp and I felt robbed lol I know how you feel.
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One getting away with hatch I can stomach. All three using a key and getting away makes me sick. That honestly shouldn’t be allowed or at the very least there’s a wait period for each survivor to use the open hatch. But nope, they just jump down one after the other like a goddamn cartoon character.
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Mine was worse because they were clicking flashlights and what not and it's like if y'all got a key just get out of here instead of trying to get my attention.
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With reference to the conversation above, by very clear definition; 2 dead and 2 escape through the gate is a tie. Anything different would be either a win or a loss.
2 people escaping via hatch would probably be a technical win, but also a tie.
But this game isn't really about winning or losing, but the tug of war. The lore actually fits the gameplay really well in this sense, but hypercompetitive people are hellbent on ruining the experience for others.
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All this people coping lmao.
If the killer doesn't kill everyone, he lost. Don't pat yourself in the head over a 3k. A killer's job is to kill and you failed, if you see in a movie a killer failed to kill the protagonist do you consider he won because he killed 3 other guys?
As for survivor, just surviving is a win since BHVR refuses to give survivors a penalty for leaving people behind. It's hilarious because other teamwork oriented games like RE:Resistance punish you if survivors die or are not at the gates by the end of the level.
The hatch is bullshit and a way for survivors to just get an easy win without having to compelte the objecctive. And what makes it worse is that killers don't have an equivalent to instakill all 4 survivors immediatly without having to work for it.
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Hatches and keys let survivors side-step the end of the match; the phase where killers are typically at their strongest, because the active area survivors want to be is so much smaller.
Shouldn't there be an offering killers can use that side-steps the beginning of the match, where killers are at their weakest? Like, some or all the survivors start exposed, or survivor auras are revealed to the killer for a bit at the start, or the killer has a speed buff until the first gen is completed or the first survivor is downed, or something like that?
I suppose Moris were the equivalent, letting you knock out one or more players faster than usual, skipping a portion of the early/mid game. Green moris were certainly more fair, limiting your impact to just the one person, but they all got nerfed to pointlessness, so there's that. I wonder if the hatch/keys will ever get nerfed in a similar, scorched earth style?
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As people have stated, this is no longer a horror game, just a competitive game with a horror finish. As much as I would like it to be like playing a horror movie it’s not. You don’t see the people in horror movies get thrown so many chances to get away from the Killer. The Killer is suppose to be the power role, it’s not. Etc etc. This is just a very extreme version of hide and seek now. And when I kill more than 2 of the team I think that’s a win. Especially since my “team” is just me, myself, and I.
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Can't argue with that.
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True. When old moris were a thing, killers would most likely be punished for tunneling, camping, then mori-ing off of hook. Not saying they should've pipped, but survivors shouldn't pip from key escapes either. The emblem system is just dumb. BHVR has said that.
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Sounds like empty placating. If they know it’s dumb they should rework it or get rid of it. Not say yeah it’s dumb but still keep it
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If there are 3 gens left and 3 survivors - the hatch isn't even spawned. Just saying....
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Disagree.
This weekend as solo survivor, I've had loads of Killers with ultra rare-add ons. Huntress with Iri heads, a Ninja Wraith (again add-ons), Tombstone Myers-
Numerous solo survivors have taken keys in, and the Killer just camps and tunnels them down. Just because it happens every once in a blue moon doesn't mean it's a problem.
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Just be like me.
4 stacks of BBQ = Win
Anything beyond that is just the cherry on the top.
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You ever thought maybe they put those add ons in after they spotted the key? Most killers instantly go hard cause a key can end a match quickly. When I spot a key in my lobby I change up my perks and add ons. I didn’t this time cause they found a key in chest. Look where that got me.
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No I had 3 genned the area. One gen left but they couldn’t get to it.
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My point was that there are loads of ultra-rare add-ons for Killers that can end a survivors match prematurely. Iri-heads are usually a blood bath. Same with Tombstone Myers. You can be totally healthy, never been hooked, and BAM- you're dead, de-pipped, out of the game.
What's the difference?
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Oh well then that makes more sense, BUT I will say - you were not going to get an "easy 4k" - you only killed one and they only needed one more gen to start the end game. They must have played decent to get 4 gens done with only 1 kill. You MAY have gotten a 4k, but prolly closer to a 2-3k. Now let's say in your scenario the other 3 were on death hook - then you would have had 9 hooks which is a win in my book. Curious what your score was at the end - because that's how I determine if I "win" a match. I don't need a 4k to win as that doesn't do anything for me - bloodpoints on the other hand do. This is why I focus on all 4 emblems each match instead of focusing on 1-2 - which is why I always laugh when killers camp/tunnel. (not saying you did either)
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The difference is the Killer is punished for ending the match early. If survivors managed to get hatch at 2 gens they aren’t punished for it.
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The way the gens were set up were just a few feet from one another. It was an easy gen patrol. My only mistake was that the hatch spawned right in the middle of the 3 gen. They hasnt even worked at all on the 3 gens, two were on death hook, etc.
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I don't understand. If a Killer uses one of their ultra-rare add-ons to end the survivor's match in 60 seconds, or if a Killer face-camps a survivor with a key, that survivors gains barely any bloodpoints and de-pips. Is that not 'punished'?
In what way is the Killer punished more than this?
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The killers also barely get any BP and possibly de-pip as well. Killers get BP for chasing and such. If they are killed quickly the Killer gets nothing.
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Yeah but to even use a key, survivors must complete X amount of generators. That leaves time for Killers to chase/hook etc. Maybe they won't pip up if survivors escape thru the hatch, but they will *safety pip*. If a survivor is face-camped, he de-pips and gets zilch.
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Right. They may be scrapping it for MMR but the emblems will still be in charge of the amount of BP you get. Which sucks but at least we have BBQ.
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I don’t think the game is even confused about the win / loss conditions.
Yesterday I got Ruthless Killer, and still Depipped.
Another game, Killer was AFK whole match, I did like three gens, opened a couple of chests, got like a totem or two, escaped and still somehow depipped. Lol yeah ok
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If you got 'entity displeased', I think you had more issues, since I've had 'brutal killer' on 0K's. How many hooks did you get in?
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I’m not saying I got Entity Displeased in that match, just that’s one of my criteria for losing. I don’t remember what I got that match though but not that.
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Ah, okay, I misunderstood!
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It just depends on what you personally think of as a loss. At the moment the key escapes are ridiculous because of the chest bug, however if any survivors get out through the hatch I count it as a win regardless because they've pretty much taken the cowards way out.
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The frequency is the difference.
The keys are freakin easy to get from chest lately, I don't know if this is a bug or an intentional buff to chests but its insane.
In the last few weeks more survivors scaped from me using a key found in a chest than the entire previous year (nobody with plunderer's instinc equiped most of the times).
The "pink cheat addons" are not as frequent as keys at the moment, not by far.
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1. Even though the devs are reluctant to outright say what is considered a won or loss, how the game is deigned has pipping be a won or loss since the game incentives (although not much) to go up in ranks. -1 is a Loss, 0 pip is a loss ( you could potentially say tie), +1 or +2 is a win regardless of kills/hooks/escapes for either side. I think 4ks should be designed as one way of winning but how the game works it is not if you do it too early.
2. Keys should.not count against you as killer
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That's fine but the game does not define it that way. In reality we have to submit to what the game defined as a win. I can't play chess with someone and say because I took their queen I won because that is contrary to the established win requirements of the game. The same is for this.
Don't spread misinformation that 4ks are wins when the game is not designed that way.
I personally wish 4ks were wins but the game just doesn't reward you for it in any way (BP and pips) so we have to accept that 4ks are not wins by the games standards
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So you are mad because they flat out outsmarted you and got lucky with finding a key.
they need to rework the emblem system and not disclose what counts for it so that you can actually earn your ranks by playing and not jsut do the few checkbox things.
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Whilst I agree hatch is frustrating and is a broken mechanic if you end a game early as survivor unless you accrue enough points by the rules of the game you can still lose despite escaping via hatch or exit gates.
The survivor is encourages to draw, out the game. Tho they jave less of an incentive then killer who only gets stronger and stronger. The issue is a lack of reward for pushing ranks. So most people dont care to draw out the game.
I'm gonna contimue to suggest the same hatch fix because i know whatever archaic dumb decision the devs come up with its likely gonna cause a load of issues.
Hatch only spawns at all gens done or egc. It's role is an alternative escape or another way out if the gates are located close by. Anything before that is bypassing the objective and as such are blatantly against the spirit of the mori nerf which was that it bypassed the 3 hook rule thus speeding up the objecitve for one side in a manner that is unfair. A unique chest spawns in the basement containing a skelton key when the egc starts it can be opened.
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