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We all know DS and NOEDs are best friends because they both have one thing in common:

They reward you being ######### at the game.

But, it's not hard to go and find all 5 totems at 1 generator left. Soooo..

@twistedmonkey said:

@Fibijean said:
@twistedmonkey While I agree that NOED doesn't need a nerf, I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of countering it. The time cost isn't how long it takes to cleanse all the totems, it's the time it takes to find all 5, and if multiple people are cleansing, the time it takes to say, cleanse 3 and then find the other 2 broken ones to confirm that they are, in fact, broken. Takes several minutes at least, if you're lucky. More often it takes at least half the game, assuming you don't have a perk like small game to help. Obviously it's quicker then, but most people don't run small game.

Personally I don't think i am underestimating anything, now if you apply it to one survivor only then yes it can take a long time and I think the case for it taking a long time with everyone looking only applies to certain maps like Lery's or the game, most other maps you will end up walking/running past a totem to get to a gen, how often have you saw someone on a gen and a totem right beside them?

The overall problem is not everyone actually cleanses them and i find it is generally those people who don't cleanse them that complain, the only issue is if you are the only one doing them is you can not tell if others have ignored then which is probably more than likely the case, if you are running around the map the chances are you will always see one or two totems at least (again apart fro Lerys or The Game), the fact is NOED is designed to slow the game down and to stop survivors just sitting on gens or be punished at the end game which it seems to do a pretty good job of.

Even if everybody cleansed them, it would take a lot more than 14 seconds out of the game. You're not factoring in the time it takes to find them at all. Some totem placements are better than others, and some maps are easier to find them on than others. But in most cases regardless, it still takes time to look around and find them, while also trying to avoid the killer if they're nearby. Or if you get found, which usually happens to someone within the first 30-60 seconds of the match, that's time that you're not cleansing totems as well. Even if no one gets found and they all make totem cleansing a priority, they still waste time finding the rest to make sure that they're all gone, because without SWF and third-party VC they have no way of knowing how many totems other people have cleansed without checking for themselves.

So if all the survivors collectively spawned within view of all 5 totems and cleansed them straight away, plus they were a SWF 4 man and could then tell each other that they'd all cleansed totems, and they weren't interrupted by a killer like nurse or hillbilly (i.e. huge map presence) during that time, then MAYBE it would take as short a time as you say. But that's a fantasy situation, not the reality for most games.

Lanis_ said:

It's just another buff for babykiller, it's fine.

in SWF just remove all 5 totems before last gen.

In Solo(like me)... Good luck

@Fibijean said:

Even if everybody cleansed them, it would take a lot more than 14 seconds out of the game. You're not factoring in the time it takes to find them at all. Some totem placements are better than others, and some maps are easier to find them on than others. But in most cases regardless, it still takes time to look around and find them, while also trying to avoid the killer if they're nearby. Or if you get found, which usually happens to someone within the first 30-60 seconds of the match, that's time that you're not cleansing totems as well. Even if no one gets found and they all make totem cleansing a priority, they still waste time finding the rest to make sure that they're all gone, because without SWF and third-party VC they have no way of knowing how many totems other people have cleansed without checking for themselves.

So if all the survivors collectively spawned within view of all 5 totems and cleansed them straight away, plus they were a SWF 4 man and could then tell each other that they'd all cleansed totems, and they weren't interrupted by a killer like nurse or hillbilly (i.e. huge map presence) during that time, then MAYBE it would take as short a time as you say. But that's a fantasy situation, not the reality for most games.

Yes what I was stating is it takes 14 seconds for each one, the best case scenario is each one a survivor runs past gets cleansed, that is only 70 seconds to cleanse all the totems, its the equivalent of almost doing one gen and it only takes away 14 seconds from each survivor with one being 28 seconds.

Of course they have to use a few seconds running to the totems they see and if the killer finds them they can lose what progress they may have done but let me put it this way, in doing this objective you do not let the perk activate, it saves someone going down at the end game so easily, it saves the time in everyone or maybe just one trying to find NOED at end game, the time taken within the match saves the time at the end, of course you could just leave the game but most do not and that is why it is complained about so much.

You actually hit the nail on the head, of course it wastes time and that is the pupose of it being a totem, the fact that you have to take time of gens means it is working as intented, numerous times I have cleansed 3 or 4 totems per match only to find NOED activating, guess what happened? 1k turned into 3k and those players complained the killer was a noob for using it in the end game chat, who was actually the bad player in that scenario?

My point still stands apart from Lery's and The Game how often do you actually run around doing gens and not spot a totem within 30 seconds? i would say its very rare that you never pass any unless you spawn right next to a gen and start on it instantly.

The reality for most games is that a lot of players just dont do them, NOED is in essence a totem to give survivors what many people have been asking for, another objective for survivors to do, of course it can take time but thats the whole point, dont take the time and you risk the perk activating, its a choice you make.

Would you prefer it went back to be the original way? NOED used to be perma at the end game when the game first came out, now it has an actualy counter its just people refuse to use that and then blame the mechanic or the player.

@twistedmonkey said:

@Fibijean said:

Even if everybody cleansed them, it would take a lot more than 14 seconds out of the game. You're not factoring in the time it takes to find them at all. Some totem placements are better than others, and some maps are easier to find them on than others. But in most cases regardless, it still takes time to look around and find them, while also trying to avoid the killer if they're nearby. Or if you get found, which usually happens to someone within the first 30-60 seconds of the match, that's time that you're not cleansing totems as well. Even if no one gets found and they all make totem cleansing a priority, they still waste time finding the rest to make sure that they're all gone, because without SWF and third-party VC they have no way of knowing how many totems other people have cleansed without checking for themselves.

So if all the survivors collectively spawned within view of all 5 totems and cleansed them straight away, plus they were a SWF 4 man and could then tell each other that they'd all cleansed totems, and they weren't interrupted by a killer like nurse or hillbilly (i.e. huge map presence) during that time, then MAYBE it would take as short a time as you say. But that's a fantasy situation, not the reality for most games.

Yes what I was stating is it takes 14 seconds for each one, the best case scenario is each one a survivor runs past gets cleansed, that is only 70 seconds to cleanse all the totems, its the equivalent of almost doing one gen and it only takes away 14 seconds from each survivor with one being 28 seconds.

Of course they have to use a few seconds running to the totems they see and if the killer finds them they can lose what progress they may have done but let me put it this way, in doing this objective you do not let the perk activate, it saves someone going down at the end game so easily, it saves the time in everyone or maybe just one trying to find NOED at end game, the time taken within the match saves the time at the end, of course you could just leave the game but most do not and that is why it is complained about so much.

You actually hit the nail on the head, of course it wastes time and that is the pupose of it being a totem, the fact that you have to take time of gens means it is working as intented, numerous times I have cleansed 3 or 4 totems per match only to find NOED activating, guess what happened? 1k turned into 3k and those players complained the killer was a noob for using it in the end game chat, who was actually the bad player in that scenario?

My point still stands apart from Lery's and The Game how often do you actually run around doing gens and not spot a totem within 30 seconds? i would say its very rare that you never pass any unless you spawn right next to a gen and start on it instantly.

The reality for most games is that a lot of players just dont do them, NOED is in essence a totem to give survivors what many people have been asking for, another objective for survivors to do, of course it can take time but thats the whole point, dont take the time and you risk the perk activating, its a choice you make.

Would you prefer it went back to be the original way? NOED used to be perma at the end game when the game first came out, now it has an actualy counter its just people refuse to use that and then blame the mechanic or the player.

I think you've misunderstood me. I never suggested that NOED was a bad perk, that it is overpowered, or that the fact that it takes time to counter is a bad thing. I think it's great, actually. I was just contesting your suggestion that it realistically takes 70 seconds to cleanse all the totems, because it actually takes a lot more than that. Yes, you often see totems around the map. That doesn't mean that you can find all 5 easily. You might only see 3 or 4, and spend ages looking for the rest. Just because totems are visible doesn't mean you can just go from totem to totem taking them all out with ease, because you might know where 1 or 2 are but you have to search for the rest, while being stealthy so the killer doesn't find you. It takes time.

And as I said, it doesn't actually matter much in terms of efficiency whether or not everyone is cleansing totems, because even if others have cleansed some, you don't know that, so if you want to make sure they're all gone you have to go around and find each one anyway to make sure it's gone (plus they're not as easy to see when they're already broken). And that takes more time. Which, again, is not a bad thing necessarily, but it's incorrect and dangerous to think that NOED takes no time at all to counter. The counter is simple and easy, but in reality it isn't quick. That's all I'm saying.

If you still aren't sure what I'm talking about, imagine that I said "well it only takes a maximum of 120 seconds to kill a survivor, so your games should only last 480 seconds at a maximum. I mean, how often do you see other survivors when you're in a chase?" Obviously it's not exactly the same thing, because survivors are sentient and mobile unlike totems, but the point is, moving around the map takes time. Locating and chasing down survivors takes time. Hooking them isn't the difficult or time-consuming part, so it's silly to act as though that's the only part worth mentioning. Similarly, the difficult and time consuming parts of totem cleansing aren't the actual cleansing but moving around the map, stealth, and locatinig totems. There's a lot more to it than just that 70 seconds.

@Fibijean said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I never suggested that NOED was a bad perk, that it is overpowered, or that the fact that it takes time to counter is a bad thing. I think it's great, actually. I was just contesting your suggestion that it realistically takes 70 seconds to cleanse all the totems, because it actually takes a lot more than that. Yes, you often see totems around the map. That doesn't mean that you can find all 5 easily. You might only see 3 or 4, and spend ages looking for the rest. Just because totems are visible doesn't mean you can just go from totem to totem taking them all out with ease, because you might know where 1 or 2 are but you have to search for the rest, while being stealthy so the killer doesn't find you. It takes time.

And as I said, it doesn't actually matter much in terms of efficiency whether or not everyone is cleansing totems, because even if others have cleansed some, you don't know that, so if you want to make sure they're all gone you have to go around and find each one anyway to make sure it's gone (plus they're not as easy to see when they're already broken). And that takes more time. Which, again, is not a bad thing necessarily, but it's incorrect and dangerous to think that NOED takes no time at all to counter. The counter is simple and easy, but in reality it isn't quick. That's all I'm saying.

If you still aren't sure what I'm talking about, imagine that I said "well it only takes a maximum of 120 seconds to kill a survivor, so your games should only last 480 seconds at a maximum. I mean, how often do you see other survivors when you're in a chase?" Obviously it's not exactly the same thing, because survivors are sentient and mobile unlike totems, but the point is, moving around the map takes time. Locating and chasing down survivors takes time. Hooking them isn't the difficult or time-consuming part, so it's silly to act as though that's the only part worth mentioning. Similarly, the difficult and time consuming parts of totem cleansing aren't the actual cleansing but moving around the map, stealth, and locatinig totems. There's a lot more to it than just that 70 seconds.

Sorry yes I misunderstood a bit, I am in agreement that NOED can take a lot of time to remove, totems take 70 seconds to cleanse not factoring in finding and moving to them, but thats not to say its hard to do, it could take 3 times as long in the grand sceme of things, I do however still stand by my statement of which it can be taken out the game very quickly if each survivor simply did each totem they saw when they had the chance too, I also think for the most part in most of the maps we will all see a totem if spawned accross the map within the first 30-60 seconds of the game starting and thats not actively looking for them, that is just moving towards our objective of doing gens.

ReneAensland said:

@megdonalds said:

@EntityDispleased said:
Bad killers use noed and noed activates against bad survivors so the perk seems balanced so far.

Nope, i met enough tryhard billys and nurses with over 3k hours who used that perk, even at high ranks.

I'm asking this to stop.
One shot killers like Billy, Myers, and Pleather Face shouldn't be allowed to run that Perk.

Assume NOED until proven otherwise. Bust the totems. And GTFO when the gates are open.

Harsh reality: The only reason to save your teammates is to assist in getting the gates open. Once the gates are open, GTFO. You don't get extra points for them surviving, and losing your escape points isn't worth the unhook points.

Orion said:

@DemonDaddy said:
The fact that the # of totems left is unknown without voice coms is a benefit for the killer. The idea being survivors may still be looking after all have been cleansed. Its not a baby tool though, granted it is used by noobs far more often. Its a tactical choice that heavily relies on survivors rushing to get out. It is easily negated but has a huge pay off when it does activate. 

So it's high-risk, high-reward, and primarily benefits newbies, while good Killers have next to no benefit from it. Sounds like a perfectly balanced mechanic.