The truth about the "only Spirit is viable against skilled survivors!1!" canard
You see this over and over and over here, on the killer side (and I am very much a killer main) it is practically an indisputable article of faith. But here are the facts:
- If you get really, really good with ANY killer (even garbage tier ones), that killer can easily handle (or least have a relatively even game with) (i) all non-red ranks, and (ii) 98% of red ranks, including rank 1s, SWFs, and rank 1 SWFs.
- If you are a rank 1 killer up against literally the .1% of the survivor population that is a rank 1, tournament-skill level, all optimized meta perk 5000 hour 4 man SWF Korean sweat squad, you'll struggle with anyone except spirit.
- 98% or 99% of the killer population will never reach the rank where they actually have a chance of playing that sweat squad.
- Ergo, "Spirit" is only mandatory for a non-stomping by 1-2% of the population, in maybe 1 out of every 20 or 30 games that 1-2% plays.
Is any of this wrong?
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As a Clown and Demo main, I couldnt agree more.
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I wreck pretty damn strong elite survivor teams on a regular basis as Clown, without meta perks.
Sure, I also get wrecked some games.
But I absolutely can hold my own with one of the wEaKesT kiLLeRs in the game, and DESTROY survivors that don’t take Clown seriously.
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I completely entirely agree. Pyramid Head main, curbstomps average survivors who path very predictably, struggles slightly vs good survivors who path weirdly but still 4ks, if they hold w you're done for if they're also good on gens but almost nobody plays like that so it's okay. I unironically play Speed Limiter Bubba and no shock doc at rank 1 and 4k a lot of the time too lol.
I think I've faced one tournament squad ever, as Wraith, and 2ked.
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Fun fact, most of my opponents hold W, predrop pallets and slam gens. Most of my trials last less than five minutes, for which I say thank gods killer ques are instant (I wonder why). I have been extremely vocal about this. The only killers that can compete with this are Spirit, Nurse and Blight, and I'm genuinely tired of all 3.
Thankfully, for the last two days I've been having relatively normal trials where people aren't glued to gens even when teammates are hooked. I'm actually getting looped. And even t-bagged. And sabotage plays. And people heal. It's been fun, and if that's your norm then I agree with you. Killers always stand a chance. I win some, I lose some, it's great. Admittedly I still mostly lose, but that's because my m1 skills have heavily dropped due to lack of practice.
But it's not my norm. Red ranks in the evenings on AU servers is normally just a series of teams competing with each other for fastest gens and most pallets dropped. Going against that as Billy? Huntress? Even Plague? Nope. Not happening. Your skill doesn't matter.
Edit: Forgot to close my point: This is why people play Spirit. Of those three that can deal with this, she's the easiest. And no, these teams aren't the best of the best, but they are extremely efficient. So why learn difficult killers like Blight or Nurse when you could play Spirit and still be putting in more effort that your opponents?
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Nah man. according to people here it is a you problem and survivors never hold w loop well or do gens.
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I just think the average Red Rank Survivor is bad.
Mathematically, I really shouldn't be able to win 75+ games in a row with Legion at Rank 1.
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So the argument is that Killers need to be strong enough to deal with survs that can loop well? Effectively, that boils down to "that surv plays better than me, better make my role stronger." Is that really the argument you want to make?
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You know moonwalking doesn't so anything right? You just stand at safe spots with 2 to 3 different views on where the killer is at most loops.
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I play mostly clown and can agree with this. I’m nowhere near as good as I could be but I never really feel like I couldn’t win a game
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Ah, right, better go tell Otz or Tru3 that moonwalking doesn't do anything. Lol
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I have a few issues with that:
1- those numbers.... Where are you taking them from? I know its to convey your idea, and i get the concept but it always felt like it hurts your arguments more than anything, even if i see what you mean
2- the argument does not take into account the absolute broken matchmaking we've been having for months and months. Sure IF you are red rand killer what i'm saying will feel completely alien to you (and understandably so), but when you're a casual rank 12-15 even a red rank non tournament team is going to win.
3- While playing SOLO and rank 1 (ok i was rank 2, 2 pip's away from rank 1) i felt the difference in teams. And those games where i had a good team i felt untouchable. Everyone was good at looping and all 3 were on gens so the killer had NO chance.
Now, if YOU got good to the point where you always with (i.e. 3k or 4k), that's awesome and with 0% sarcasm I'm happy for you but maybe that also stops you from seeing some other issues. I'd gladly discuss anything if someone doesn't agree with me if done in a civil manner
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This is correct. IMO the "highest level of play" is only an excuse to keep stuff like Spirit as she is, because most players will never compete against those "highest level of play"-Survivors. Like, there will be a dozen tournament teams in the whole world. This is not much. The chances to go against one of those are pretty small, going against them multiple times is near to impossible.
Against the usual Red Rank Survivors, every Killer can compete. Like, I played tons of Trickster lately, because I want to prestige him and I am doing fine. Granted, I dont go against tournament Survivors, but this is because those are rare. I have faced a tournament team exactly once (in the middle of the night, 4 AM, the only time I played that late in the night), and it was not even that bad, but I guess they played pretty relaxed. And this is in over 5700 hours of playtime.
So people with 1k hours or less who come to the forum and are saying they verse these kind of Survivors constantly are either lying or overestimating their opponents (and their own skill as Killer). You can win with every Killer in the game, no Killer is too weak for Red Ranks.
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I guess you ignore it when he moonwalks and the survivor is good?
True literally goes "mmm yeah im not going to waste my time, this survivor is too aware." and walks off. Happens multiple times a stream.
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Its not wrong, but what about the players that are not really really good with any killer? That still have to face swf survivors above their skill level. Which killer do you think they have the best chances of getting a decent match with?
Yes, not all survivors are Rank 1 deathsquads, but not all killers have 5k hours either, but they often face survivors with far more experience. Dont killers facing those deserve fair matches?
Unless there is a good working matchmaking, the powerlevel of the killers are not easily to determine.
Also, as a red rank survivor with 5k hours: 98% of spirits can be outplayed, if you just try not to loop them around.
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As Legion in the era of kinda balanced maps agasint teams that don't stay injured and play safe? Or as Legion a year ago?
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Just because the .1 is very rare doesn't mean it should be ignored. Take goats from overwatch for instance it was only run very well in owl and top 500. Every owl game i saw was goats goats goats. Do you know how boring it made watching it? Then when id watch streamers playing the game in top 500 theyd see the enemy team on goats and would just be like "well they went goats guess were going goats" commences a very boring match. Especially with dbd hosting their own tournaments now do you think people would be really interested in seeing nurse and spirit 4 man slugging because they lose if they don't? There is ways to balance the top level and bottom level for the most part it just depends if the devs can do it. Sure they can probably nerf spirit but id leave nurse as she is until we do rebalance that high level.
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No Shock Doc?
Can you elaborate?
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Doctor but you never use his power
The full title is, ahem, "No shock massive cock doc"
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ive seen trappers get 4ks at red ranks. the thing is spirits power requires next to no thought process or skill. take pyramid for as an example, he has to choose where hes gonna place his barbwire and when hes going to use his spike attack. trapper has to know good locations for traps. nurse, as much as i hate her she does require a lot of skill
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Lol.
Firstly, applause for still managing 4K’s this why.
Secondly, why?!
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Cause it's funny and I like being called an idiot for not using my power by people who died to me not using my power
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Makes me think of the times before cross play when I’d get messages along the lines of “imagine using Clown, lol, pathetic, EZ”.
And all I could think was “umm... you’re all dead. You lost.”
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Predropping pallets is extremely inefficient in chase tho. Pushing gens only works if your gen is ignored for prolonged times. If most of your trials last about 5 minutes due to genspeeds, yes, you are the issue. Heck, even with Myers, arguably the weakest killer in the roster, being extremely dependend on addons, I get an average match time of 10 minutes and an average killrate of 3 people at rank 1.
If you cant get the same with other killers, you're simply not skilled enough with those killers. You cannot expect to play PH well if you only play Blight and Spirit as PH relies more on getting cheeky hits. Spirit, Blight and Nurse all have the ability to easily close gaps between tiles. While PH is more designed to get hits while you're inside a tile. You WANT to get looped as a PH. Just as you WANT to get looped as a Doctor. While Spirit, Nurse and Blight rather want to avoid loops whenever possible.
So yes, it's literally just a case of git gud.
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I take it you've never gone against teams that play safe and slam gens? Lucky you. Can't even get your first down til they've done 3 gens, then assuming you manage to hook someone they leave the person to hang while they polish the last 2. Then any and every chase is just holding W. Which make sit take at least 20 seconds, and that's assuming they're already injured.
But yes, I suppose I just have to get so good at the game I break the physical limitations of the killer's design.
Edit: Also, I'm one of the few people that thinks Plague and Legion are very strong. Same as Trickster. So maybe try to understand that different people have different experiences and that I have to base my assessment of killers on what other people say their average trials are like.
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I've played against plenty, but after 2.5k hours total I've seen more killers rush kills than I have seen survivors playing it safe. Besides, survivors cant really play it safe AND slam gens at the same time.
And I tend to get my first hook before they finish the first gen, sometimes I get my first hook when they finish 2 gens, but that depends on where I find the first survivor.
And yeah, if survivors are constantly holding W to gain distance and succeed, perhaps its time to ignore them while you go back to protecting your gens. Odds are quite significant that the survivor you found first was the survivor who wanted to be found first and is actively leading you away from the rest of the team working safely on gens. Dont give survivors the satisfaction of giving you tunnelvision on a single person.
As for Trickster being strong, I mean, heavily depends on the map. If we take all maps into consideration, he's the weakest on the roster. Doesnt mean he is too weak tho. People tend to mix "weakest killer" with "too weak to do anything". Heck, Clown used to be considered the "weakest killer" even though he was one of the hardest killers to counter in chase.
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Did you seriously just suggest that people can't do the thing that anniahlates almost every killer and is the direct reason that you don't see anyone but Spirit and Nurse in tournaments?
Umm.... Okay then.
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I sometimes get the impression that many red-rank survivors exist simply because people are too damn nice and rank them up when they don't deserve. So there's no real way to really gauge if you are going up against that top percent. All you can do is judge based on sheer numbers.
I really need to go back to spirit one day and see what the fuss is about.
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It works on baby survivors, and it does not always work on safe tiles.
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I fear a red rank demo/clown/wraith much more than a spirit in all honesty. If somebody has travelled to the red ranks on those killers, you know they know how to play. Sure, you can maybe win by being coordinated and efficient, but in a chase they will absolutely wreck me. Against a spirit, there's a good chance that actually they are only red ranks because they play spirit.
I've met a fair few red rank spirits that were actually pretty damn terrible and you can see how they made their way to where they are. I tend to have a much easier time against these.
(Of course there are also very good spirits who will also absolutely destroy me, but its never as clear cut)
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This is pretty true.
While I do enjoy (and main) Spirit, it's always fun to flex over to Pig (my next favorite and first killer I got to R1 with) or Huntress or Myers or...
You get the idea.
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I LOVE playing against red rank Spirits that got there just cause they were carried by Spirit (been there, done that LMAO). I played against a Spirit the other day (without Stridor, bless her) and I would just walk away as soon as I realized she was phasing. In every single chase I had with her, I'd hear her yell and smack at a pallet that I was NOT at, all while I was simply and casually walking away from the loop.
I don't tend to go against good Spirits in my region (southeast NA) for some reason, so I'm completely warped in my opinion on her and personally love going against her. I really think I haven't gone against an actually good one, though, and if I regularly did, I might change my opinion pretty quickly LOL
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LOL, I wish I could run into a killer that would scrim when I ask. I only ask when I KNOW my friends and I got unlucky or the killer got lucky but they always say no, even when I offer them the map pick LMAO
But I do feel like Freddy is different than Spirit- Freddy still has to use the basic game sense and mindgames that any other killer would use to get a hit or down at a tile, while Spirit really can just stand there. Spirit plays the game pretty differently than other killers so I feel like she is the killer most able to "carry" someone to red ranks without them actually being able to translate too much of the skills they have with her to another killer.
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I did that about when GhostFace came out.
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This is true, I think the real issue is that spirit has no transferable skills to other killers as in what you have to learn to do on spirit wont help you when you want to play something else so a lot of purple/green players, this is just an example, may pick her up hit red and then not be able to play the other killers ergo the "OnLy SpIrIt Is ViAbLe" crowd comes from + because she and nurse are genuinely in a tier of their own that against the true top 1% people who think this way feel like their view is being validated when they probably are not struggling against the top 1% but haven't went through DBDs full learning curve.
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Wow,that's impressive. They're much stronger these days
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Yeah nothing better than slowly walking away from shack and then hearing a distant "HRAAAH!" as she hits at the window then watching her run around it from 30 meters away trying to find you because they cant possibly comprehend that you didn't want to stick around for the 50/50 coin toss game
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As survivor main, I'm not that great. I getting better at loops, I just play a lot and pip up. The hard sweats at red ranks are not fun. I usually am in purple ranks but, get pulled into red ranked games often... It's not fun.
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Being that right, do you want to suggest anything constructive here?
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Pretty much all of that has no basis on reality
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That’s because you’re a good Clown. You know his ins and outs, his specific movement, when/where to throw bottles. Etc
I’ve literally had Clowns get destroyed and say “Never picking this garbage killer again” ... and I’m sitting there like I just lost to a Clown 2 matches ago. Like, what? Lol
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I was only challenged in maybe 6 of those games, the rest were complete stomps. I think the streak ended at 79 when I met a great team who absolutely smacked me.
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Yes, because the only way it would annihilate a killer is: survivors having selfcare, survivors running medkits, survivors having near perfect communication.
Essentially, the only reason it would annihilate a killer is if you're in a tournament in the first place. But DBD isnt a tournament game. It never has been, and it never will be.
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I refer you to my original comment.
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Which did not mention tournaments, so I refer you to my original reply.
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Literally one of the most entertaining things in the game for me LMAOO
That whole "is she phasing or not?" sucks at a short and small pallet loop where you can't break line of sight (think Ormond picnic bench pallet loop, Blood Lodge middle pallet loops, etc.) but is so much fun anywhere else you can Just Leave.
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