I dont understand why people are saying they want more meta survivor perks
I've seen a few people saying they hope lucky break doesn't get nerfed too hard and yea i don't want the perk to be irreverent but almost all the meta perks in this game are "meta" because they are TOO good. I also think most people are just overlooking and dismissing a lot of perks that criminally underused because they don't want to stray from the meta which is unfortunate because there are a lot a underused survivor perks.
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Survivors have had their meta pretty well defined for years now. All of the top perks now are the same ones used years ago. I took a 2 year break and didn't change my David King build and noticed that most people in my games were running most of the same build I was running.
I just dont think there are very many options left for "meta"perks for survivors that aren't totally busted. The survivor meta has stayed the same for a longgggg time and I don't see it changing much ever. There are the few random perks that get some use but most of the older ones are still used the most.
I think a lot of the "meta" perks need looked at in order to help encourage more diverse play. I'm happy DS got adjusted but the BT change I hope doesn't go through from the ptb since it will be a must have perk (im not a fan of must have things in a game) since it was already very strong. Less popular perks should get buffs but the meta perks I think need slight nerfs at least
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Yep.
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Alot of survivors are still salty they can’t abuse the DS perk anymore. As clear by every other day there is a post asking to buff or revert it. So now they need another meta perk to replace it.
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Survivors did not get a Meta-Perk since years ago. If you want to play Survivor, it is enough to get the Basegame and Halloween-DLC (even if some people think that DS is bad, but if you dont want to use it, there is 0 point in buying any DLCs as Survivor, since the Perks are not good enough). Survivor Perks are mostly just "to have", but nobody needs new Perks as Survivor, because they are all too weak.
Changing Lucky Break is a step in the right direction IMO, I like that BHVR is doing risks with stuff like that. They should do that all the time, buffing a Perk by a good amount and see how it plays out. If it is too strong, they can nerf it again, if it is alright, it is fine, if it is too weak, they might consider buffing it even more. Like, the game will not die if there is a busted Perk for 1 1/2 - 3 months, depending on how much time they want to give it.
Meanwhile, Killers get useful Perks basically every Chapter, since Killers all play different and some Perks are actually useable. This has decreased over time, but up until a few patches ago, usually Killers got one very useful Perk and one situational Perk, while Survivors usually get 3 Perks which are not good at all.
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It's probably because among high-level players, the options for viable builds are really low. Making the meta more diverse is not a bad thing; they just need to make sure that nothing is TOO strong.
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Better to have a lot of strong perks and have a very diverse meta than having only a handful of strong perks and having a very stale meta, which is what this game suffers from atm.
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I guess i can empathise with them. I would like to see a lot more aggressive balance changes across the board on both the weaker killers getting buffs and stronger killers getting nerfs to mix up the game play as well but i don't want to see the metas get changed by just making stronger things supplant whats already good in the game.
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its the newer generation of gamers....things used to be better, we used to enjoy a challenge, now they ask what is the best and just run that and thats it, like playing against bots or something.
Imo a LOT of perks should be nerfed, perks should not determine the outcome of matches, how is that any fun or rewarding in any way? it should be skill, planning, strategy
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It will never be used beyond memes or boredom if it isn't as game changing as the current meta perks.
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Maybe because some overall balance changes are needed as well?
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Remember what company we are talking about here. We need to think glacial balance change speeds.
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People do overlook a lot of extremely strong perks because there's others with more overt, immediate, and easy to use effects. This is true of killer as well, to an extent.
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I don't think it's generational. Rather alot of people are power gamers who min/max everything.
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Because survivors run the same 4-5 perks and the meta is stale
You can say they are "too powerful" but killer also has strong perks, so survivors should also be allowed strong perks too.
Both sides should have strong perks and both sides should be able to have variety.
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Killer perks are kinda irrelevant and you cant really equate the survivors perceived lack of meta perks with something on the killer side of the game because of how different killers interact with their perks is unlike how survivors do because what's good and how many perks are good is depended on what killer you play.
Eg
-STBFL demo on compared to STBFL on nurse
-Sloppy on a wraith v Sloppily on a legion
they doesn't even need to be bad for their to be a difference in how you use a perk
-Whispers on Ghostface v Whispers on Plague, because of how it can give you a free down off the start if used correctly on GF
If anything i think the killer Meta is stale as hell but its hidden by the different killers and how they interact with perks
BBQ + Ruin or Pop + ? + ?
Unfortunately because all survivors play the same way and there's 4 more of them so their perks kind of have to be toned down in impact at least compared to the killer perks, I don't think the killer and survivor perk situations will ever be comparable.
I'm not writing this to say that there shouldn't be strong survivor perks even if I believe they cant ever be as impactful as killer perks for balance reasons its more so that killer and survivor perk situations cannot really be compared fairly in terms of having strength and variety because they will never have the same variety unfortunately and they cannot have the same strength.
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^ this.
Like, Exhaustion Perks are an awesome example. You have 6 Exhaustion Perks in the game currently (I dont count Adrenaline). From those, only 2 see use frequently, with Head On being seen now and then, but only because it is a fun to use Perk and not because it is actually good.
3 Perks were used some time ago, but Balanced Landing was nerfed into being mostly useless, so we only had Sprint Burst and Dead Hard left. Now, if Killers get their will of nerfing Dead Hard, only Sprint Burst remains, which will make the Meta even more boring - and Killers will complain again, because it is frustrating that Survivors can do Gens while being completely save, since they can get away with Sprint Burst while the Killer is approaching (no real need to run early).
Now, there is a new Perk, Smash Hit - however:
- It is really situational
- It only works against Killers who are more likely to get stunned, e.g. it does not really work against Nurse or Spirit and most likely Deathslinger and Huntress as well
- It is only useful on unsafe Pallets, since you dont want to leave safe Pallets as Survivor
- Because of this, the Killer can counter it by respecting the Pallet, which will lead into a Hit (most likely)
- It promotes bad gameplay (camping Pallets)
- Latency will ######### you over
- And, as a cherry on top, it got released with a Bug (which is not fixed until now) which made Killers ignore Pallet Stuns
And a Perk like this should add variety to the Meta? Like, it is good that there was a new Exhaustion Perk, but if it is way too weak to begin with, nobody will use it.
And this is the case for many Perks which are released. Survivor Perks are only Placeholders to promote more Skins IMO, there is no real incentive to buy any Survivors, as long as you are not a completionist or like the visual design.
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As long as the survivors have their slew of second chance perks in their current state their meta is never changing no matter what gets released unless it's another second chance perk.
The perks are just too good to where they blow everything else out from being considered.
The only reason you wouldn't just stack all those second chance perks is if you didn't care about winning and were just wanting to mess around. That's a sign of poor design.
The survivor meta generally speaking hasn't changed in years and isn't anytime soon without heavy reworks/nerfs.
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The two sides have meta perks for different reasons though.
The survivor perks are meta because they're just insanely too good and blow all other options out from being considered.
The killer meta perks are chosen not because they blow all the other perks out but because most the perks are trash and it's just the best that's available.
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I don't see how that's different
A lot of survivor perks are situational and worthless in 90% of games
A lot of killer perks are situational and worthless in 90% of games
so everyone just picks the more consistent and strong perks.
It's the same problem
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Both sides need lots of perk buffs/reworks that we can agree.
However the power level of each sides meta perks are not on the same level at all.
Also, when you wipe away each sides meta perks what's the power level of the perks remaining? On survivor side there's actually quite a few decent perks still available. Not on the power level of second chances of course, but decent.
Now look at the killer side after you wipe away the meta perks, what's left? It's not decent perks, most are trash/meme perks.
There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking.
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Because survivors are not having any good perk. Devs are not adding good perks for survivors anymore. I mean for different gameplay sometimes i am trying other perks but most of survivor perks weaker than meta perks.
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While I do agree there are a lot of strong perks, nothing compares to tunnel/camp protection from BT/DS and the chase extension of Dead Hard/Sprint Burst. The survivor meta patches up fundamental game design flaws that killers can abuse and other slots tend to go to chase extension or anti-slug. Same goes for killer meta being slowdown due to the fast gen speeds and limited pallets.
Denying the killer the ability to go for the injured person off hook and progress their hook timer more rapidly as a result is more powerful than any other perk in the game because there's nothing in the game to deter them otherwise should they choose to do so.
To shift the survivor meta one of three things need to happen. Either BHVR release more tunnel protection perks, they implement base kit mechanics that prevent tunneling/camping, or they release perks that are so broken that the killer never hooks you in the first place (Lucky Break PTB buff).
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I would not say that BL is useless, in fact it is pretty strong on maps that have some sort of elevation.
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The survivor meta patches fundemental game design flaws by creating fundemental perk design flaws. Punishing killers for not tunneling. Push E To Outplay. Hold That W. Get Up For Free. Never Make Noise.
As opposed to perks like Kindred, Bond, WGLF, We'll Make It, Q&Q, Botany Knowledge, Prove Thyself, all of which are much scarier to go against because in the right hands they screw killers over worse than the mindless survivor meta.
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Ok boomer
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The problem I see with survivor perks when compared to killer perks is, well, killer perks are a lot less situational. What I mean about that is this, for a perk to be strong it has to see use every single match and well survivor perks are designed in a way that doesn't happen often.
If playing survivor why would I choose to run something like
- aftercare? This is also a strong perk, but the minute I get hooked I am set right back to default... Empathy can see basically the same information.
- autodidact outside of the meme? Its honestly a great perk, but its rare to get 5 stacks quickly unless I am running in a 4 man SWF. I've tried this perk many times because its a great perk. But running it solo or a 2 man SWF, I rarely get 5 stacks in a match.
- Boil Over? This perk is only useful if multiple players play the hook separation offering and even then it still usually requires a survivor to take a hit or the killer to get screwed over by a wall. Or another survivor to be running breakout?
- Breakout? Basically useless unless the survivor is running boil over or multiple offerings to space out hooks were played. And still usually requires me taking a hit for the carried survivor
- Buckle Up? Like why would anyone run this?
- Deliverance? Oh you got found first, guess you just play with 3 perks this game
- Flip-Flop? One the killer has to slug you and two, guess what unless the hooks are really far, still most likely going to get hooked.
I am not even half way through the perks and most of the are just pointless. I skipped most of the new perks because honestly I have no idea what they do, I never see them in my games. I am not saying make survivor perks OP... but make them so they can be used once per game. Could you imagine running pop but only get to use it 1 every 5 or so games? Could you imagine running BBQ but you only proc survivors once ever game? Like killer perks are strong and have a Varity of uses per game.
Take starstuck for instance, I run it on my demo, I've knocked down one person with that perk, but the value it gives me is stupid. No one attempts to take hooks or sabo them against me, because they are insta down. I get value from that perk 1 of 2 ways every game.
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It's always good to shake it up a bit, so more meta perks are a good thing (especially if it's more than 4)
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That isn't it. There hasn't been a survivor meta perk introduced since 2017. There have been several killer meta perks introduced since then, and the killer meta already had more variety because killers have different strengths. The survivor meta is extremely stale.
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I mean you also have to consider the fact that there's a bit of circular logic in play
Survivors run the best perks they can so killers run the best perks they can which in term means people who want to do well in either role at red ranks (not saying rank is a factor, rather that most people get into red ranks if they play actively) gravitate towards the more consistent perks, of which all of the survivor meta perks are.
You could also make the argument that lesser skilled players are carried by strong perks which is a fair point, just look at the DS nerf and the undying nerf (both which were very necessary and healthy for the game IMO)
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Until Smash Hit was added, BL was 100% the worst exhaustion perk in the game (ignoring Head On- that's very obviously a meme perk LOL). You literally have a map where it can't be used, and multiple maps where, if you want to use it, you have to pre plan out your chases and stick to a certain area. BL is the least versatile exhaustion perk- maybe even less versatile than Smash Hit, for how inconsistent Smash Hit is as an exhaustion perk. SB, DH, and Lithe are leagues better than BL.
This is a huge, huge part of why the survivor meta rarely changes once all perks are unlocked- survivor perks are MUCH more situational. Even the strong ones are situational. As killer, you can force usefulness out of any perks you take. As survivor, you might not even interact with the killer, or if you do, it might be in the form of getting tunneled out before you even get to use your fun altruistic quick healing build. Take it from a Deliverance user- it's tilting to bring certain perks out of the old tried and trues and have them be rendered completely useless due to killer behavior. Those "16 perk slots survivors have!" might as well be 8 or 10 in some games- you could have an entire lobby of DS+UB survivors and not even realize until you see the perks in the post game lobby. Take it from a Deliverance user- there are plenty of games where I end up using only 2 or 3 of my perks because I got found and hooked before anyone else. So all of that is why I don't tend to take the "16 perks!1!1!!!" schtick too seriously half the time it gets brought up.
Solo survivor is forced to have a slightly different meta than SWF (gotta give up a perk slot for Kindred so that you don't die on first or second hook!), but once you get to the point where you constantly are up against good killers, you have to shed all the fun but less useful perks if you seriously want to try escaping more often, have better games, or be more useful to your teammates.
As survivor, you're basically obligated to take perks that you might very likely not even use during the trial. I hate feeling required to bring BT and DS (used to not take DS- but after the nerf I quickly learned that I HAD to) because it makes games feel stale pretty quickly when you can only bring one or two "fun" perks if you care about being a good teammate, but the stale flavor is infinitely better than staring helplessly at your teammate getting face camped, or getting hard tunneled because it turns out nobody brought DS (or the killer didn't care about risking DS). I guess the killer equivalent of survivors feeling forced to waste perk alois on BT/DS/etc., would be having to bring some form of gen regression like Corrupt, Ruin, Pop, etc.
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Survivors don't need stronger perks because they already have all the map as a defense.
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The BT change was much needed because it didn't work against stealth killers and it should've always been like this. The only possible change I could see adjusting this perk is make it activate if the killer is within 25-30 meters of the hook.
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I feel fine with (outside of Freddy's weird stuff) Stealth killers getting that buff. All of them are among the weakest killers in the game and this just further makes them weaker. BT should have changed for Freddy for sure but now it's just too strong. Id prefer it be distance based and not terror radius
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what makes it too strong if I may ask?? That it activates no matter where the killer is??
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Ace in the Hole: Only running with a full chest build to get addons. Literally no point to run it otherwise.
Adrenaline: Nice perk, play with only 3 during the match and if you get to endgame it gives you a health state and speed boost. Yet its somehow too op.
Aftercare: Resets after you get hooked, no reason at all to run it.
Alert: The killer kicked something, cool. No point outside of meme builds.
Any Means Necessary: Killer just kicks dropped pallets.
Appraisal: Running with a full chest build or not at all. (Not counting the bugged nature of chests right now)
Autodidact: Rarely get 5 stacks in a single game, hit or miss perk.
Babysitter: Why would you run this.
Balanced Landing: Only good on one map where there are consistent drops to use for it. (Haddonfield) Other than that depending on the map it can either come into use or not at all. Very underwhelming for an exhaustion perk.
Better Together: Meme build, most of the time your teammates bring the killer towards the gen even with this perk equipped.
Blood Pact: You get a speed boost after healing, cool. Useless otherwise and overshadowed by perks that just give a better effect.
Boil Over: Only good with a full build complementing it. Trash otherwise.
Bond: Good perk, could make the range wider to 24,32,40 meters.
Borrowed Time: Great for preventing a proxy camping killer from going straight after the unhooked guy immediately, won't do anything if the killer goes after you but thats the point. Great perk.
Botany Knowledge: Only good with a full build around healing, i.e. self care/medkit. Bad
Breakdown: Not good, only used right now because of the bug where the hooks don't come back (once thats fixed you won't see it again outside adept jeffs).
Breakout: Full sabo build required to get full use out of this perk.
Buckle Up: Garbage
Build to Last: Requires a full build oriented around an item. (Streetwise, Botany, etc) Otherwise you will only see it on adept Felix's
Calm Spirit: Either a full build around stealth or Adept Jakes.
Camaradarie: Tournaments only, never see this in pub matches except on Adept Steves. The effect it gives is minimal.
Dance With Me: Only great with a full build around this. (Lithe, Quick n Quiet, Iron Will)
Dark Sense: General survivor perk (only newer players run this). It's terrible but is still in my bloodwebs for some reason.
Dead Hard: Great perk to use either dodging a hit, distance to a vault/pallet, or to make pyramid heads whiff by dead harding into them while they try to use POTD. Some people say its too good, since I'm biased I'm not gonna go further except to say its extremely useful and doesn't need a full build around it to maximize its impact.
Deception: Locker build + iron will required and only works once (on good killers). Otherwise they can hear your grunts of pain/or expect it and don't lose you again.
Decisive Strike: Even with the change its still a healthy perk you can get use out of by being tunneled in the first 60 seconds.
Deja Vu: Great for breaking 3 gens, but weak overall compared to other perks.
Deliverance: Found first, useless perk.
Desperate Measures: Either useful for Adept Felix or a full healing build. There is no in between.
Detective's Hunch: Locker Build? Outside of that there's little it can be used for.
Distortion: You don't get the tokens back and new Object makes it completely useless.
Diversion: Killer doesn't fall for it twice.
Empathy: That's all it does. Only great on healing builds, and adept claudettes. Little to no use outside of that.
Fast Track: Only overpowered when all 4 teammates have the perk and everyone has been hooked twice and no tokens have been wasted.
Fixated: The change to have it work even while injured is great. It's not powerful but doesn't require a full build to utilize it effectively.
Flip-Flop: Useless when the killer doesn't slug, requires other perks to make it work.
For the People: "It's a new insta heal" "this will be so abused by swf". Mediocre perk with a lengthy cooldown. (I may just be salty since I always use it when the killer has rancor and then can't get rid of it before the last gen pops.) Just lower the timer on the broken status effect.
Head On: Meme perk
Hope: This timer counts down even while on a hook so its utter trash.
Inner Strength: Only 5 totems and if another person has it equipped as well you are going to not be able to use it as effectively.
Iron Will: Anytime being injured you don't make grunts of pain. Great counter to spirit, gets countered by Stridor. You don't need to have an entire build oriented around this single perk to get use out of it.
Kindred: Solo queue nightmares.
Leader: Adept Dwight's/meme builds. Increase the range to make it better or something else.
Left Behind: Only good with a key and if the killer spotted you in pregame with it odds are you got tunneled/franklins.
Lightweight: Old perk that needs to be reworked.
Lithe: No window/pallet you can vault? No using it. That's why its not good.
Lucky Break(Pre Buff): Doesn't matter that the killer can't see your blood. Never run it outside of Adept Yui.
Lucky Break(Buffed): Potential break in the meta for a new perk (Instead of Iron Will, Dead Hard, DS, Unbreakable, etc) it could replace something there. I hope it survives to Live. One of the first times a perk has seemed outside of meme builds.
Mettle of Man: You need a full build and a non-insta down killer to get full use out of it. Not good.
No mither: Only good in a 4 man, other than that it's the ultimate meme perk. Either hide the broken status and start out healthy or something else that doesn't tell the killer right away that you are running no mither.
No One Left Behind: Only useful when the gates have been opened. Change it to be active when the last gen has been completed.
Object: Good change
Off the record: Only useful before with Object, no point running it now.
Open-Handed: Need aura perks to get full use out of.
Pharmacy: First chest only gets a medkit. Pretty bad only running it in a full chest build.
Plunderers: Good if you are item farming, but to get full use out of requires an entire build around chests
Poised: Why run this outside of Adept?
Power Struggle: Requires at minimum 1 perk, but up to 3 other perks to make it work. Once that happens the killer knows not to slug you again and you don't get any use out of it.
Premonition: Useless and the cooldown doesn't help.
Prove Thyself: Good for SWF or gen rushers.
Quick&Quiet: Need a full build to use it fully. I.E. Locker build (Inner Strength, Head on, QnQ, Detectives Hunch)
Red Herring: Only useful when trolling your team.
Repressed Alliance: Anti-pop, and requires you to essentially do almost an entire gen solo to get the ability to block for 30 seconds. Underwhelming.
Resilience: 9%.
Saboteur: Need a full build to use effectively, very limited outside of that.
Second Wind: Despite the buff to the healing speed, it's still very very bad.
Self-Care: Useful but most likely need perks like Botany knowledge, desperate measures with a medkit to get full use.
Self-Preservation: Why would the killer go after you when they just hit someone else. The requirement that you need to be within 12 meters makes this perk fundamentally weak. Increase it to 16.
Slippery Meat: Useful if you are ballsy.
Small Game: Totem hunter andy.
Smash Hit: Dependent on the killer being able to be stunned (Ranged Killers, Nurse) otherwise its next to useless. Also latency since you can get hit through pallets. Also pallet stuns broken when this was added. (Fun) Very weak exhaustion perk.
Sole Survivor: Needs to do something else since the Object change. Pointless to use.
Solidarity: Requires a full healing build.
Soul Guard: Requires a hex/unbreakable to use.
Spine Chill: A useful perk regardless of your build.
Sprint Burst: Good for W gamers. Can be boring for the killer but with the decreased usefulness of other exhaustion perks this may become more widely used.
Stake Out: Cool?
Streetwise: Need a build oriented around an item otherwise its minimal.
Technician: New players only
Tenacity: Good when slugged otherwise its terrible.
This is Not Happening: Good while injured, outdated.
Up The Ante: Outdated perk, only good with slippery meat.
Unbreakable: Great perk for recovery speed and counters a tactic utilized widely by killers.
Urban Evasion: Great for newer players, the effect it has at higher ranks is close to nil. It also makes you look inexperienced if your teammates see you crouching everywhere.
Vigil: Effect is meh
Visionary: Is disabled for some reason. It's already a bad perk, why should it be disabled after a gen is complete.
Wake Up: Make sure you survive to the endgame, running 3 perks the whole game.
We'll Make It: Weird
We're Gonna Live Forever: No complaints about the healing speed, just annoying that it incentivizes hook bombing to get tokens.
Windows of Opportunity: Why is this disabled during a chase while Zanshin tactics now has no cooldown. It's terrible.
Just my thoughts, the most useful perks in the list are the ones that don't require an entire build oriented around it.
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That and you can cover a lot of distance in 12 seconds. Either the time should be decreased a good bit or there should be a max range for BT to trigger or limit number of times a survivor can benefit from it. I dislike perks that give conditionless free hits
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The only perks survivors really run is second chance perks, the others are just considered gimmicky and inconsistent
Dead Hard - Gain the powers of Markiplier E and undo any mistake you made
Decisive Strike - Your teammate farmed you and hid so the killer's only option is your loud moaning ass, guess what, you can stun him now to force him to drop you
Unbreakable - Got downed? Change that in just twenty seconds or get your money back ( Better paired with Decisive Strike for literal invincibility! )
Iron Will - You finally got hit! But it doesn't matter, the killer will have just as hard of a time to get you the second time! ( Can sometimes be obtained for free without the use of the perk just because )
Borrowed Time - Farm your teammate and he'll willingly take a hit for you, so why not just do it? Not like you can be grabbed
Spine Chill/Resilience - Stealth Killer? Don't worry, you'll know when they're coming, and if they get the jump on you you get more gen speed and can loop even better because : Losing blood and having a giant wound means you get more athletic!
And since the only killers that have a consistent good chance against red-rank survivors are Spirit, Nurse and Blight, they can't exactly take these off unless they wanna be tunneled and killed off right away, since that's an obligation from the killer's part to have any chance of a 4k and it's not exactly fun for the survivor either
The reason people want more survivor meta perks is because it changes up the gameplay for both sides, but that's impossible due to the game's core design, it's flawed and those perks deal with those flaws, so unless they nerf everything to the ground, they won't go away
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There are a lot of survivor perks that are garbage or situational though. Let's not act like this is a killer exclusive problem. Most of the meta perks for survivors are fine, the weaker perks need to be buffed. More stuff like Soul Guard, For The People, Fast Track, and Smash Hit are what survivors need for the meta to be shaken up.
Aggressive balance changes are needed on both sides, though.
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Not really... just going down the list, there are quite a few decent killer perks that aren't meta. The problem is that many killers want to conflate any remotely useful perk into being meta.
Perks like Thanatophobia, Sloppy, Thrilling Tremors, Dark Devotion, Rancor, etc. are all decent perks.
Both sides have fairly decent perks that aren't meta.
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Sloppy and Thrilling are meta.
Thanata, DD, and Rancor are not. Of which all 3 of these are garbage.
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"Most of the meta perks for survivors are fine"
Most the survivor meta perks are very unhealthy design.
"More stuff like Soul Guard, For The People, Fast Track, and Smash Hit are what survivors need for the meta to be shaken up."
These are the complete opposite of what we need.
You're wanting new perks to be brought to the level of perks that are too high to shake up the meta when what we need is those top perks brought down to shake up the meta.
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LOL yes of course they’re all garbage. Killer meta is the same as survivor meta. If they aren’t as good as the best, they suck, apparently.
They’re fairly decent perks, and pretty good on some killers.
If it were up to me, I’d make all perks significantly less important to general gameplay than they currently are. However, the decs clearly don’t want to do such a thing, so make all the other perks good.
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This is not how it works. when you weaken a survivor or killer perk, it does not create diversification, it just removes the perk from pool of perks that people would choose from. Take Undying+Ruin for example.
When Undying got nerfed, it didn't "shake" killer meta, it just made that perk not get used. so when you have roughly 4 choices for slowing the game down(Ruin,Pop,Sloppy,Corrupt), Undying become unconsidered
Its same for survivor perks. When Mettle of Man or for example balance landing got nerfed, the perk did not "shake" the survivor meta. It simply died out. The choice between using Dead Hard and using Balance Landing is not a question of which exhaust is better, it's other one is superior and other is pointless to run. Balance landing rarely gets used (In comparison to dead hard). Weakening MoM did not make other survivor perks get used more, It just made MoM never get used because it was over-nerfed to being complete worthless.
If you weaken all of the survivor perk or all of killer perks that are meta, you are effectively weakening that side as whole and will create a perk imbalance for one side.
At the end of the day, a perk either
A) impact play
B) has no effect on the game
so for example, new lucky break perk, its either a good perk or its not good perk. there's nothing in the middle when it comes to DBD. Its either want this effect in their build or do not want this effect in their build. Many of the perks that are bad are structurally bad. What they give is unwanted and even if this effect was tuned to be slightly bit impactful, Its not going change the meta because its simply not wanted. easy example of that is ruin vs devour hope, devour hope has a potentially strong effect, but your more likely to face Ruin than devour hope because Devour hope effect is not "wanted" as much as Ruin effect is. Instant downs are great and all, but slow down generator is more competitive strategy.
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"This is not how it works. when you weaken a survivor or killer perk, it does not create diversification, it just removes the perk from pool of perks that people would choose from. Take Undying+Ruin for example."
That is how it works. Lowering certain perks brings other perks into the meta.
"If you weaken all of the survivor perk or all of killer perks that are meta, you are effectively weakening that side as whole and will create a perk imbalance for one side."
Because that side does effectively need weakening, that's part of the point. Survivors already have a perk imbalance that we're trying to correct here.
"At the end of the day, a perk either
A) impact play
B) has no effect on the game"
This is quite a superfluous statement. "perks do something or they don't" Kinda silly right?
"so for example, new lucky break perk, its either a good perk or its not good perk. there's nothing in the middle when it comes to DBD."
That's just not true. It's a sliding scale of power, not a yes or no.
"easy example of that is ruin vs devour hope, devour hope has a potentially strong effect, but your more likely to face Ruin than devour hope because Devour hope effect is not "wanted" as much as Ruin effect is."
That is not why you see Ruin instead of Devour. You see Ruin instead of Devour because the likely hood of you losing Devour before getting value out of it is very high. You'll at least get some value out of Ruin even if it is cleanses in 1 minute. People would much rather have Devours effect.
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Survivors definitely need weakening but perks is not one of those places. Most of survivor imbalances are more related to structure of the game, such as god pallet, ultra-safe loop design, non-impactful killer powers, gen speed.
The statement is not superfluous, the perks that get used are often... objectively the best perks for each side. This is where statistics is really good. There is zero ambiguity. period. what decides what get used and what does not get used the purpose of the perk and its scale of power, but often, the scale of power is like.... a true or false question. Take Iron will for example. The strength of iron will lies in its ability to make a survivor completely silent often used to juke killers at wallblocker loops(to hold W against them & waste time). Anything that is not silent for example Tier 1 Iron will will have no effect on gameplay because anything that is not perfectly silent will allow killers to track them despite equipping of a perk. even Tier 3 version of Iron will that is 90% sound reduction will have the effect of tier 1 Iron will.
There's load of things in DBD that are like that. Instant downs, you can't scale instant downs, they either instant down or do not instant down. there is nothing in between. Dead hard for distance, i mean you can scale the dash but at the end of the day, the question becomes "Does this dash save me" yes/no and if yes, the perk fulfill its effectiveness and if it does not, it will not get used.
Some things do scale numerically, like Surge vs Pop goes weasel but its again always going come down to the question of whether this perk slowdown the game enough where you notice a boost your performance/chances of winning and whether its worth the perk slot of something else.
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Honestly META perks are META because a bunch of popular youtubers/streamers used them If they say this perk is really good everyone starts using them, And if they say that perk is bad everyone STOPS using them I hate that tbh
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Devs might as well add a perk that allows the survivors to hook the killer then twerk at him.
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Or maybe because vast majority of perks are not good enough.
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Wdym?
Bond empathy alert aftercare repressed alliance inner strength autodidact lithe balanced landing smash hit etc. Are all good and they should be META i've tried all meta perks and only adrenaline & BT deserve the meta spot Unbreakable too but it's situational
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The reason people want more meta perks is so that people are able to run other perks. What happens when you have options that are naturally better than others is that people will choose them, leading to bland and repetitive gameplay. After all, perks are meant to be fun and interactive.
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