A simple but effective balance for SWF
Hello. I know this has been discussed a lot and the odds of some of you just barging in here and shooing me out are great but, please, bear with me for a second, I won't take long.
For an introduction, every player (specially the killers) knows how different the dynamics of facing organized comms groups from the solo players is. In general: survivors get all the info they need to be able to roll out with 4 meta perks that would help them in chases more efficiently, do gens, heal... In general, be more time efficient with it. That will never change, nor do I intend to, really. The amount of game pressure they generate by simply being too effective (only one player goes out for rescue, if intercepted, another one will immediately take place) sometimes is overwhelming, save the times when they get too cocky or altruistic and end up blowing themselves up in the process...
But, my point is, the game rolls out in a completely different dynamic, and the killers, well, they always get the short end of the stick. So I thought this one through and, to whoever is familiar to hunt showdown, I believe you should know where I'm going to go with this...
Give killers checkboxes before committing to queue up to allow teams of (2)(3)(4) players.
By not accepting groups of people, you'll obviously face a harder time searching for a game, that by itself will act as a motivator to keep queue times steady. But, by giving people the option to choose to or not to face groups of 2,3 or 4; will guarantee that, if you're willing to wait long enough, you may as well run that mad grit/agitation meme build and expect people to fall for it more than once.
Another addition could be allowing killers to know exactly whose are grouped up in the lobby, and, to avoid lobby/dodging, give it a good ol' bonus blood points for the possible ptsd they're about to endure.
Same goes with solo queue survivors, the few brave that are still out there.
Well, that was about it. Thoughts?
Comments
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That's really just hiding the issue.
Solo's are at a HUGE disadvantage compared to SWF.
Killers will obliterate Solo's, but be dominated by some SWF.
You've got to address the power imbalance.
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Here's my take on it. I believe there should be 2 modes to this game. A casual and a (lack of a better word) 'competitive' mode.
Casuals are just that. You go in find a game and go. Could be 4 solos, 2 doubles, a solo and a triple, or a full swf.
'Competitive' could allow for only solo queuing where experience and game sense is key. Could change the entire dynamic of builds for both killers and survivors.
Then there is the issue of in game comms(think Friday the 13th). A lore friendly way for them to communicate in game instead of just a global system. There is also the option of proximity chat that runs the risk of the killer hearing your plans or worse: finding your location through the strength of the proximity.
There is a lot of things we go go with and not a lot of it may work. I'd like to see multiple ptb of these to gauge some serious feedback.
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This idea would make it so that swf, especially groups of 4, will take forever to get into a game. What’s stopping me just turning them all off and probably waiting only a minute for a game?
Your idea would probably never work out and reduce the amount of people who play.
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Devs won't do anything that splits the playerbase like that.
The only exception is crossplay, but I'm pretty sure at least one console (perhaps all of them) has rules that makes it mandatory to include an opt-out feature if crossplay functionality is to be implemented into games on the platform.
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how about instead of trying to balance something that is only broken by 3rd party software we buff Solos to be on the same level as SWF then buff killers accordingly?
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I feel like the only thing that truly holds solos back is the ability to communicate. How would an in game chat go as far as buffing solo? Proximity could have the advantage of talking while near but the killer can hear as well.
An in game item like a walkie talkie could prove useful as well to help communicate to a swf group that are all on discord or similar party chat.
How would you go about bluffing solo if you could?
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Make info perks basekit, like kindred, buckle up, totem counter basekit.
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Kindred basekit and Proximity chat for survivors that the killer can't hear, those would make Solo much better to play
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I can both agree and disagree with this. I only play solo survivor(cause I got no friends) and I can say having kindred base kit would be an absolute God send. Buckle up is kinda useless since I know how to tell time and be able to run up and know exactly how much they would be recovered IF they had.
As far as totem counter goes. It needs to be a perk. If everyone had a base kit counter to a LOT of perks (being totems) that just essentially removes the incentive to use them and reduces the threat that they pose.
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This. The devs won't split the playerbase nor make changes that'll hurt anyone's queue times. If there is a pre-game indicator and/or option to block SWF in any way, they will be dodged into oblivion and never ever get a lobby. No bloodpoint bonus or what have you will make the vast majority of killers willingly pick that option. Get solos the info and communication they need and then power up killers accordingly.
I'm not sure how running things like this through PTB's will really help either, as the consoles cannot participate and never will be able to. That's why the devs have begun to change the feedback and survey systems to include more from consolers, as i think all consoles together outnumber PC players now.
Also some believe (incorrectly imo) that feedback from the PTB's gets ignored anyway.
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I'd like to see a ptb of that and gauge the feedback. I'd also like to see one where the killer could also hear it. It would make sense the thing coming after you would have ears and be able to use them.
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The reason i'd like buckle up is because a lot of randoms dont even recover on the floor, and I get to them thinking they're 90% and they're like 10%.
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You got a point, but we're talking bhvr here. 4 years to quell the OoO issue. I'm taking the baby approach, that doesn't require much work around hard-coded matchmaking, wouldn't harm the queues as much and it won't take much of bhvrs attention away from their beloved battle pass development.
The core problem is force splitting the player pool. Queues are already as trash as they can be. I believe the rewarding system would not harm the in game economy as much as players quitting the game because of back to back SWF troll Fiestas.
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Proximity chat should've been implemented on day one imo.
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I kinda feel like a killer being able to hear the swf talking would be a lack of privacy though? I mean what if they are genuinely having a deep conversation about something that isn't to do with the game? 😳
I wouldn't want a random person on the other side hearing about what colour my knickers are 😂 unless of course I have miss read some of yall messages, then feel absolutely free to elaborate simply for a simple mind to understand correctly 🤣😂
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Discord is better than proximity. There is no point. Same voice chat as discord can solve a problem
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Here is why your first queuing idea is 100% flawed.
First off not only will the killer get increased waiting times but so will any grouped survivors. This massively increased waiting time will cause people to leave the game and you'll kill the community.
Secondly if killers are only facing 2 man swfs or a full group of solo players then you should nerf killers when against them right? After all if your wanting these changes to be implemented because swf is OP then why wouldn't killers get a debuff vs a team of solo q survivors? Most people agree solo q is weaker than killer at the high ranks so why wouldn't this get the same treatment as the swf vs killer argument?
Lastly and probably one of the worst things is what happens when a full 4 man, 3K+ hour team finally finds a match. The longer survivors wait, the matchmaking pool increases in range. So if this team waits for 20+ mins (if they're lucky because I'd expect it to be longer) then they'll probably get matched with a lot of killers around rank 20. Since no one at the high ranks will want to face 4 man groups they will instead make people at low ranks, who are obviously less equipped than them bite the bullet.
Any sort of matchmaking split is BAD for the game. Whether it be what you suggested or if it's a option to turn off facing swf or whatever else people suggest.
Also for your second idea that's also not great. A bloodpoint bonus won't stop lobby dodging and showing who's swf and who isn't will just make every game that team faces super sweaty, forcing them to do the same.
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Nah.
Killers don't have an issue with queue times. They will be able to uncheck the (2), (3) and (4) party SWFs without affecting their queue times much at all, because the majority of survivors are solos.
Meanwhile, SWFs queue times will skyrocket, and people will no longer be able to reasonably play with their friends.
Once again, the only fair way to 'nerf' SWF is to give solo players tools that emulate the coordination of a SWF.
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I see the game as playing a slasher film. If I can hear people(as I should since I have ears) I would like to find them and interrupt them as well. On the flip side it would keep information concise and keep players immersed I would think.
But that is only a hypothetical on proximity chat which may have a Max strength of touching characters and a min strength of 10 feet where it fades in between.
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But what if they're having a conversation based on the colour of their knickers 😂
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You're completely missing the point so I'm not even gonna elaborate 😂
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It's unknown if it would force split the player pool or happen to be a weird balance to a two sides problem. I would urge a ptb with this on for a month to collect data and feedback before truly adding it to the game.
I can see both the pros for it and the cons against it. And openly agree that there is probably a better solution that I cannot yet see. It is quite a topic for thought though.
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Imagine being the slasher in a movie where your victims go like "Johhhhhhn Madden UoooouUuuuUUuuooooOOOoUuuuu My name Is PINKY PiiiiiiEeEE"
Truly, the stuff of nightmares.
I wish this actually happened (for reals)
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Lol. I can remember a similar thing happened when playing Friday the 13th where the killer joined in on the conversation and it lead to a Max time game.
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Well, as explained, dbd being a "better with friends" kind of game, by choosing not to pair with 3/4 man squads, the killer would be shooting himself in the foot, and himself only. The queue times would balance that out on themselves.
As for the second suggestion, same thing, the lobby dodgers would shoot themselves in the foot by going back in the line so it evens out by itself again...
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Not really. Those survivors will also be waiting a very long time because a lot of killers will turn off 3/4 man swf. Then they'll finally get a game, only to see a baby trapper or wraith who they won't even have fun facing.
There is too many problems with this and I'd definitely not want to go back to the tiles where I had to wait 30+ mins for a game.
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This is exactly what I want.
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Because you cant do that. You can - maybe - give a lot of information swf groups have, but you can never make them care for a random teammember like swf do, and you can´t make them teamplayers. Hell, as of now you cant even stop them from frequently disconnecting, only reduce the disconnects due to timeout times.
Its still a big difference if you are asked to take a hit for the dude you play nearly every game with and that does the same for you and to do it for a random you might not see ingame again, not knowing if he cares at all if you get hooked for covering him.
Information is a big big issue what makes swf op, but its not the only one regarding power level/balance disparitys.
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This is actually a weakness for SWF more often than not. Being overly altruistic.
Smart plays can sometimes involve leaving a teammate on a hook to waste the time of a camper, or leaving through an exit even though a teammate is on the hook, because... the killer is camping, obviously, as that's the smart play from the killer in that situation.
SWFs tend to all drop what they're doing to try and coordinate a rescue from a a camper, sustain several hits, probably only achievedx a hook trade, and while they're doing all of that, they're not doing gens, or they're getting more of them killed than if they had just left through the exit.
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Thats true, but it is different if it comes to the killer tunneling an injured guy who is on dead hook while 2 other healthy survivors nearby are still unhooked, and only 1 gen left to go.
Sure, smart play against a camping killer, especially with instadown is the right thing to do. I, however, died several time on my first hook with the gates open vs a not camping killer, because none of the others cared to help. That doesnt make for a better experience, especially at the moment, where tunneling is met every second match.
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