Why is Data still a way to measure whether a killer should be nerfed or not
Trust me Data can help make a decision whether or not a killer should be nerfed or buffed but it should be the main excuse
why not ask the community, actually take notes from the ptb
And even if you don't make an entire decision out of the data, plz stop using it as an excuse to nerf a killer, for example, freddy. Ya he was a dumb and boring killer to go against but dont use the data as a main excuse to nerf him since that can be used against you
According to data nurse is the worst killer so she needs a buff but everyone knows she doesn't so don't use data as much as you do now. since its not a valid excuse to change a killer
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Even Almo said himself that he doesn't know why Freddy is "OP and needs nerfing, just that he does need one" (this isn't word for word the quote but something very similar). And it's clear they still have no idea why people dislike this killer being the way that he is because the changes address literally none of the issues people have. All it does is make him less appealing to play than before.
It's bizarre that they're still a ######### MILE away from hitting the mark sometimes when all the information is given to them from us on a silver platter.
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Average Statistic Fan: "Hmmm... our statistics here say Victor gets more downs than Charlotte..."
Chad Feedback Enjoyer: "So, we should listen to the community and buff Charlo-"
Average Statistic Fan: "LOOKS LIKE WE BETTER NERF VICTOR!"
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Yea they never listen to the community.
When I first heard that Freddy was getting a nerf I was like oh no, because I like to play Freddy but I never used his stupid slow down add-ons.
I was so scared that they would butcher him with the nerf but then I saw the changes and I laughed and said oh he's 100% fine... These changes did nothing to him, he's still an A tier killer.
The reason imo why Freddy is so strong is that his power synergizes really well with alot of gen defense perks.
Plus the true strength behind Freddy's power is his Dream Projection. Him being allowed to teleport to gens is really strong and apparently the Devs weren't smart enough to notice that. 💀
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- why not ask the community
Tell me a single game, ever, that improved because the devs listened to the players.
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It seems they just look at how often people suicide on hook. The more you dc and hook struggle, the higher chance that killer will be nerfed to make survivors happy.
This is probably why they didn't know what to nerf on freddy, just that survivors hate playing against him and often die on the hook.
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coz if the dev listen to this forum, iron will, spine chill, dead hard, sprint burst, borrowed time would get nerfed
meanwhile on killer side BBQ, NoED would got nerfed.
imagine how easy the game would be for killer to win ?
right now they listen to community about DS and DS already useless, I even dont need to check for survivor using DS anymore.
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The problem with taking advice from the community. Most dont care about actual balance. They just want buffs for their side. Theres very few people on these forums that arent bias and its really hard to find them with all the noise.
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Technically.. even community feedback is considered "data".
Not using data for changes would just be the action of making changes at random for no reason.
The devs do a good job, they get to much backlash.
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yeah this is true, even as a killer or survivor i stopped playing OP perks to me and start using fun build instead. If in the end the game doesnt give me thrill to have rewarding 4K or almost died escape as survivor i would be bored easily. I still remember when infinites is still happens and the feeling when you can kill the one abusing it is so rewarding
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Honestly he is less fun to play with/as but I think he is actually quite bad now. They kind of just made him worse as everything (some more.minor nerfs while others were much more significant). He will play mostly the same but have much less reward for doing so and no incentive to play differently since they nerfed things that he wasn't even that good with before. Id put him in bottom 5-7 killers personally. He was too strong before but now he is too weak
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As EvilJoshy said, statistics is really all they have and if they just listened to people in the community saying “KILL NOED” or “NO MORE SWF” then this game would be awful. Their job is to analyze the data of highest kill count per killer among the different ranks.
Freddy dominated every rank simply because his power offered a lot of reward with little risk. There was no punishment for misusing his power such as spamming blood pools everywhere or constantly teleporting to gens. Since Freddy is so easy to use, they decided to add a slight penalty to his blood pools which is honestly negligible as I personally noticed in the PTB, they're still great.
Freddy never needed swing chains and jump rope anyway, if you ran these with thana and pop it made the match last forever hence the name forever Freddy. These add ons basically are extra gen slowdown overriding a perk slot, and made for unfun gameplay for survivors. I’m not a fan of his new add ons, I definitely think they should’ve went a different direction but Freddy has an ability to teleport to gens, he doesn’t need built-in slowdown.
Overall I’m sure they listened to the community, it’s obvious people complained about his add ons so they changed them. People complained about how uncounterable victor can be against a decent twins player, so they tweaked him. They do listen to the community they just can’t take into consideration of every person because in reality some people have absolutely ridiculous opinions that, if implemented into the game, would be horrible.
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They do listen. Look at Demogorgon's buff.
People ask for base kit Rats liver but that would have made his basekit too strong. I would have like to see a green/purple addon that give like 10s undetectable after a portal with a bigger cooldown, an add on to reduce the cooldown of the portal and an other one to reduce his noise. That would have been fun to play and give him a different play style.
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Oh, please no. They should not listen to the community.
They need to listen to parts of the community who knows about what they talk.
You just need to read the first page of this forum, to learn why I make here a distinction. The worst patches of dbd have been came out because they have listen to the community and never ask the people that used the perks/killers/abilities most and have true main something.
Aka. they should start to listen, to the "experts" and stop doing what the next crywave says in the forums about whatever topic.
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Data is essential to check if your hypotheses match with reality. However, data also needs to be interpreted, and incomplete data (kill rates, for instance) should not be the sole basis for decisions.
Feedback is just another type of data, it's not separate from it. Data is literally information you gather to make your decisions.
Not using data at all would result in making completely arbitrary decisions that may* or may not have any basis in reality.
*Even a broken clock is right twice a day, after all.
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well not really we had to bully them into buffing demos shred
they originally only going to nerf his rat liver
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Data is used for sure, but it's not the only thing that's taken into account when changes are made.
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It makes me wonder what are they actually doing while working at Bhvr
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I think it's difficult for some game designers who do balance to be incapable of interpreting the differing types of data. If you can't properly take community feedback from casuals, from more top end players, from statistics, and your own first hand experience, and be unbias and balance around it, then you're going to have issues. I think if MMR was in place then the data they have currently, in regards to high level play, would very swiftly show those who balance the game the fundamental issues that many streamers have emphasized in their videos, but this data isn't relevant for 95% of the playerbase, so it's easy to see it as unimportant, should you be that type of designer. "Who do we make this game for, who buys it the most, who plays it the most, what ranks have the most people" Your problem when looking at statistics is you're not even considering these types of statistics. For example, most people who play on the PTR are often skilled players from PC, which is why a lot of PTR feedback is so often never, ever followed up on, until it hits live servers. You can bet that they wish everyone who plays on the PTR were their actual base.
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What other things are taken in consideration then? It's a genuine question because the latest nerfs, buffs and overall changes seemed like they were implemented because of data, and data only.
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Thats something you cant take away from freddy without chucking him in the worthless killer bin.
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mandy if data wasn't the only thing used freddy would not be getting nerfed
Everyone above green ranks that aren't biased would know that freddy is not op yes boring but not op
this midchapter patch was almost all based on data
why do you think twins also got nerfed they weren't strong its just people who played them played well with them and boosted the data
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They don’t just use data but they clearly rely on it far too heavily, disregarding objective observation in favour of spreadsheets more often than not. There are numerous improvements that could be made to the game that are dismissed simply because the data disagrees despite objective reality telling a different story.
Trapper for example. Why doesn’t he have the bag addon as base kit? Because the data suggests it isn’t necessary even though reality clearly shows that it is. There are many such cases. It’s an incredibly flawed and shortsighted way to manage a game’s development.
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I'm just glad they hit the points on freddy nerf the only thing I wasn't happy about was pallet nerf
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- No Man's Sky
- Stardew Valley
- Eternal Return: Black Survival
- CS:GO
- Skullgirls
The list goes on.
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Can we be real here 99% of the community has no idea what they are talking about.
Look at the outcry of rat liver being nerfed despite the fact that it practicly doesn't do anything.
They should listen to feedback (aka trickster's recoil) but they should never obey feedback.
The devs decisions have me scratching my head sometime but i would take them over what the community comes up with anytime
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They did good with the addons but they were going gl to nerf his best addon because everyone used it so we had to semi riot to either revert it or make it base
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I see so our "data" says that nurse need quality of life buffs then?
That's why demo almost got his best addon gutted and twins nerf. Also billy over heat ohh and the HUD.
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Rember fallout 76 yeah it has 2 campaigns now and is still getting updates
then we got no man's sky
For honor
Cs go
Stardew valley
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The Balance Team for the game mostly relies on big data (stats) when it comes to making changes to certain things. For example, the main reason why they nerfed rat liver was because it was used too much, according to the data collected. The main problem I have with mainly focusing on data is because it does not take into consideration as to why certain things are the way they are. One prime example of this was old ruin. One of the main reasons why it got nerfed is that it was one of the most used perks amongst all killer ranks, but wasn't stated as to why it was used so much.
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If things other than data are used why can we not get answers as to what those other things are?
We are always told data isn't the only thing used yet never actually get answers as to what those other things are. All the recent killers nerfs we get seem to reference nothing but kill rates.
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I really wish the data was shared more frequently/more readily available for people to see:/
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The first two are online only and they were horribly bad on release. Their respective company either had to abandon ship and take the loss or work hard so they wouldn't lose money on them. Fallout 76 got a 75% sale like 2weeks after release and you could get For Honor for free on some occasion.
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