Ideas for making the Hatch more fair for Killer
1) (Entrance Conditions)
Survivors can no longer enter the hatch if they
- Have a Reverse Bear Trap
- Are in madness 3
- Are intoxicated
-Have 3 or more status effects
2) (Spawn Push Back)
The hatch spawns after 4 gens are completed, not 2
3) (Hatch Close)
The killer can close the hatch if they find it before the survivor. As compensation (because survivors seem to think there always must be a way for them to escape some way, ) Both exit gates will instantly be open by 30%
Need feedback.
Edit:
Ok so in regard to my original post, a lot of people seem to think these ideas are outlandish and killer sided.
I think the hatch should be in favor of whoever finds it first. A common complaint from survivors is also that if a match close were implemented, survivors would be stuck having no chance of escape and would be left to hide until the killer DCS, do 2 gens, or pallet loop / sabo farm. I will take that into consideration with my new rework because it is a valid complaint. What is not a valid complainant, however, is that killers think they deserve a 4k. This is the same as saying survivors deserve an escape. That's the whole reason the hatch is under flame right now because it's putting off the vibe that survivors do deserve a free escape.
I will try to find some common ground.
First off-
CONSTRAINTS
1) The match must end quickly when dealing with a hatch interaction (No standoffs and no 'goings on' after the hatch has been interacted with)
2) The hatch must give both parties a fair chance
3) The hatch must not be available early in the trial
4)The hatch must not give bonus points so as to reduce the urge to farm the hatch. 5k for an escape. No more. No less.
REWORK COMPONENTS
None negotiable
1) Survivors with an RBT cannot use the hatch... When the killer is the pig, the hatch will spawn with some red lights that warn the survivor that it is not safe to enter.
2)The killer should have some slight advantage when dealing with the hatch because they have the superior strength, drive and the home turf advantage if you would
3) The hatch will never spawn when more than 1 survivor is still on the map. (This will prevent survivors from prioritizing the hatch over helping each other)
THE REWORKS (In order of least fair to most fair)
1) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as the jump into the hatch. However, the killer can jump into the hatch and end the game. It will give him 7k points and the last survivor will be considered dead. (This is the current hatch mechanic, but available for the killer too. (It's a bad idea, but the current hatch is really unfair to the killer as it is right now when you read that out loud)).
2) The killer can close the hatch. After the hatch is closed, it cannot be opened. Closing the hatch will power the exit gates and open them by 10% if 3 gens were left, 20% for 2 and 30% for 1.
3) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as they attempt to use the hatch. When the killer and survivor are both in hearing distance of the hatch, the killer can hit the survivor to activate a skill check battle.
The animation would be the killer grabbing the survivors ankle and the survivor trying to crawl to the hatch. The winning party will escape through the hatch or mori the survivor respectively.
Comments
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Option 3 was more or less attempted in PTB, but never public. Killer closes hatch, and both gates open. Frankly it seems fairer and fairer the more people complain about the hatch, which a killer can prevent opening, and can use strategies including grabbing the survivor as they jump in.
So, 3 is basically, no matter how many gens are done, if the killer closes the hatch, the gates power, and are 30 percent done?
Options 1 and 2 sorta scream "I'm entitled to kill 4!" by stacking the deck against 1 person way too heavily.
3 is basically the only reasonably fair one for survivor and killer.
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not complaining about hatch would help us all, also lets be real here, madness 3, if that was to prevent you from JUMPING, into the hatch but not vaulting, what the hell here makes sense
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One could argue that the existence of the hatch screams “I’m entitled to escape just because I lasted the longest.”Options 1 and 2 sorta scream "I'm entitled to kill 4!" by stacking the deck against 1 person way too heavily.
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1 and 2 is kind of unfair. Clown can just constantly throw bottles and trap survivor and keep hitting them, doctor doesnt require anything to get survivors to madness 3, And if the person has 3 or more status effects that means they are hit so they should be able to leave.M2Fream said:All of these ideas together would be op but one or maybe even two would be good
1) (Entrance Conditions)
Survivors can no longer enter the hatch if they
- Have a Reverse Bear Trap
- Are in madness 3
- Are intoxicated
-Have 3 or more status effects
2) (Spawn Push Back)
The hatch spawns after 4 gens are completed, not 2
3) (Hatch Close)
The killer can close the hatch if they find it before the survivor. As compensation (because survivors seem to think there always must be a way for them to escape some way, ) Both exit gates will instantly be open by 30%
Need feedback.
hatch doesn't spawn with just 2 gens. It depends how many survivors are alive, if there is 2 survivors they have to do 3 gens, 3 survivors 4 gens.
3. Closing hatch could be an option but what's stoping the killer from insidious camping hatch then last minute closes it, confirmed game over for survivor. It's defiantly an idea.
*(because survivors seem to think there always must be a way for them to escape some way)* I can easily say the same thing about killers wanting an easy kill instead of working for it. I just proved to a lot of my friends that killer is easy even without ruin and I'm at rank 1. I won the hatch standoff about 80% of the time, its all about how you mind game it. Hatch is fine how it is now especially with all the nerfs survivors are getting right now. I know I'm seeming very survivor sided but I'm only upset because now (being a killer main) playing killer is stupid easy with all the killer buffs and survivor nerfs
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My suggestion:
-The hatch should not open if ANY survivor already escaped.
No more greedy survivor wasting time searching the hatch, if others already escaped through the gate.
We don't need the excuse "but the killer was at the gate". Of course he is, but there are TWO gates and he can't be at both.
Also, no hatch for the last survivor if another survivor already escaped by using a key.6 -
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Killer gets 3 kills and 1 escapes... Who cares just move onto the next game. 3 kills mean you did a great job.
1 Survivor escaping every now and then is fine and getting that 4th kill is like a bonus. I'm getting tired of seeing these how to fix hatch standoffs post.
Killer shouldn't be expecting a 4K every damn game. Stop having these ridiculous standoffs that waste time for both of you... Just let that survivor have the hatch and say gg and ######### start another game. At the end of the day you're still gonna rank up.3 -
Listen, if it comes to the point where you've killed all, but one survivor, I think they need the hatch as a way to give them some sort of chance. Besides, if you don't want the survivor to get the hatch, leave another one alive. Slug that sucker. Buys you plenty of time, I guarantee it.M2Fream said:All of these ideas together would be op but one or maybe even two would be good
1) (Entrance Conditions)
Survivors can no longer enter the hatch if they
- Have a Reverse Bear Trap
- Are in madness 3
- Are intoxicated
-Have 3 or more status effects
2) (Spawn Push Back)
The hatch spawns after 4 gens are completed, not 2
3) (Hatch Close)
The killer can close the hatch if they find it before the survivor. As compensation (because survivors seem to think there always must be a way for them to escape some way, ) Both exit gates will instantly be open by 30%
Need feedback.0 -
I would go a bit strcter and make it so that the hatch closes once a gate is OPENED.Wolf74 said:My suggestion:
-The hatch should not open if ANY survivor already escaped.
No more greedy survivor wasting time searching the hatch, if others already escaped through the gate.
We don't need the excuse "but the killer was at the gate". Of course he is, but there are TWO gates and he can't be at both.
Also, no hatch for the last survivor if another survivor already escaped by using a key.
OGlilSPOOK20 said:
Killers dont get anything for not getting a 4k, as do survivors for not escaping.Killer gets 3 kills and 1 escapes... Who cares just move onto the next game. 3 kills mean you did a great job.
1 Survivor escaping every now and then is fine and getting that 4th kill is like a bonus. I'm getting tired of seeing these how to fix hatch standoffs post.
Killer shouldn't be expecting a 4K every damn game. Stop having these ridiculous standoffs that waste time for both of you... Just let that survivor have the hatch and say gg and [BAD WORD] start another game. At the end of the day you're still gonna rank up.
Both get a payment in Bp for doing their jobs.
The hatch spits on that part by granting the last one a shortcut iut of the trial AND giving not just the (in my opinion undeserved) reward for escaping but another 2000bp bonus just because.
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The end game need a total reward in general. These quick fixes won't fix the core problem
Right now can be abuse but also give a chance to survivors who did 2 gens while other team mates were dying by playing poorly. When they'll fix it the hatch won't be an issue but its hard to find a not abuse solution,the only thing we can do I wait for now0 -
@OGlilSPOOK20 said:
Killer gets 3 kills and 1 escapes... Who cares just move onto the next game. 3 kills mean you did a great job.1 Survivor escaping every now and then is fine and getting that 4th kill is like a bonus. I'm getting tired of seeing these how to fix hatch standoffs post.
Killer shouldn't be expecting a 4K every damn game. Stop having these ridiculous standoffs that waste time for both of you... Just let that survivor have the hatch and say gg and [BAD WORD] start another game. At the end of the day you're still gonna rank up.
So tell me some things:
1. Why does the hatch open if other survivor already escaped?
2. Why do the survivor have a mechanic that avoids 4K matches, but the killer has no mechanic that avoids 4 escapes?
3. Why is the stand off in complete favor of the survivor?2 -
@Wolf74 said:
My suggestion:-The hatch should not open if ANY survivor already escaped.
No more greedy survivor wasting time searching the hatch, if others already escaped through the gate.
We don't need the excuse "but the killer was at the gate". Of course he is, but there are TWO gates and he can't be at both.
Also, no hatch for the last survivor if another survivor already escaped by using a key.The only thing I'd change is if it's the last survivor and the gates aren't powered ie 1 gen left 2 survivors and 1 goes out via the hatch. Now technically the last person is now available to use the hatch per the conditions normally there.
But it should close in 15 seconds and spawn in another location equidistant between the killer and the survivor. Nobody would know right where it's at and the killer would have the advantage of faster movement speed.
Hag/Nurse notwithstanding and Hag perhaps getting a short movement speed boost during that phase equaling up to the 115 base speed for 5-10 seconds or so to make it fair.
But as far as exit gate escape that should mean only way out through the hatch is with a key.
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@Wolf74 said:
So tell me some things:
1. Why does the hatch open if other survivor already escaped?
2. Why do the survivor have a mechanic that avoids 4K matches, but the killer has no mechanic that avoids 4 escapes?
3. Why is the stand off in complete favor of the survivor?1 - To let someone who isnt near a gate escape? seems a bit silly so I do agree 100% with this, it should close if any of the gates are opened.
2 - Technically a 4K should be hard to do it should never be the norm, in terms of balance 2 die 2 escape, the killer actually does have a mechanic to use and it is the complaint you will see a most from salty players called camping.
3 - The standoff is just a silly term used by salty stubborn people who simply wont let it go, yes the hatch is in favour of the survivor and it is being worked on but anyone who stands there for a prolonged period havign a standoff out of shear stubborness instead of just moving on to the next match only has themselves to blame, personally I just hit them or jump in and let them grab me if they so wish.
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@twistedmonkey said:
@Wolf74 said:
So tell me some things:
1. Why does the hatch open if other survivor already escaped?
2. Why do the survivor have a mechanic that avoids 4K matches, but the killer has no mechanic that avoids 4 escapes?
3. Why is the stand off in complete favor of the survivor?1 - To let someone who isnt near a gate escape? seems a bit silly so I do agree 100% with this, it should close if any of the gates are opened.
2 - Technically a 4K should be hard to do it should never be the norm, in terms of balance 2 die 2 escape, the killer actually does have a mechanic to use and it is the complaint you will see a most from salty players called camping.
3 - The standoff is just a silly term used by salty stubborn people who simply wont let it go, yes the hatch is in favour of the survivor and it is being worked on but anyone who stands there for a prolonged period havign a standoff out of shear stubborness instead of just moving on to the next match only has themselves to blame, personally I just hit them or jump in and let them grab me if they so wish.
- Why should he escape through the hatch, if he can just go for the gate?
- 4k are already hard to get and are not "the norm". So still there is no mechanic that works for the killer like the hatch is working for the survivor. No, camping is not the answer, because the killer has to weaken his own gameplay during the match by wasting time camping to secure that 1k, while the hatch does not need the survivor to waste any time before. They just have to do what they should do anyway.
- I don't do stand offs either. But in general, it favors the survivor. Beside being stubborn and waiting for the grab, the killer can't do anything to avoid the survivor getting that hatch.
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1 - Thats what I said it should not open I agreed
2 - If the hatch spawns before the gates are opened the killer is already stronger than those they are playing against so the 4K should not be guaranteed, it should be hard to get and removing the possiblity would make a 4k the norm as no lone survivor will be able to do 3 gens to get out, I never aid camping was the answer its just a part of the game where the killer can ensure 4 cant escape.
3 - Standoffs yeah do favour the survivor, its needs reworked to be of equal chance, I agree it should never be one sided as it is and its why I dont bother with the standoff, the ideas they have come up with so far just dont work, maybe remove the hatch and simply open the gates, the survivor becomes exhausted so no second chances with DH or SB etc and give the survivor 60 seconds to leave or they close again, there is then a 50% chance as killer you pick the correct one, they may also need the gates spawn to be modified so they dont spawn too close to each other.
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That's exactly what they don't need. People always talk about killers thinking they deserve a 4k but in reality, you just proved my point. A person who thinks survivors need a fair chance of escape after failing to open 1 good damn exit gate and leave.Saint_Ukraine said:
Listen, if it comes to the point where you've killed all, but one survivor, I think they need the hatch as a way to give them some sort of chance. Besides, if you don't want the survivor to get the hatch, leave another one alive. Slug that sucker. Buys you plenty of time, I guarantee it.M2Fream said:All of these ideas together would be op but one or maybe even two would be good
1) (Entrance Conditions)
Survivors can no longer enter the hatch if they
- Have a Reverse Bear Trap
- Are in madness 3
- Are intoxicated
-Have 3 or more status effects
2) (Spawn Push Back)
The hatch spawns after 4 gens are completed, not 2
3) (Hatch Close)
The killer can close the hatch if they find it before the survivor. As compensation (because survivors seem to think there always must be a way for them to escape some way, ) Both exit gates will instantly be open by 30%
Need feedback.0 -
There is a big thread about the hatch: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remediesI prey all of you to transfer your precious contributions there, in order to help Developers to read quickly the Community suggestions and complaints about the "hatch issue".
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Not really. The hatch doesn't automatically spawn for the last survivor. You have to have completed a certain number of gens for that. Even then that is far from being a guarantee that you'll escape in it.Sandt21 said:
One could argue that the existence of the hatch screams “I’m entitled to escape just because I lasted the longest.”NOptions 1 and 2 sorta scream "I'm entitled to kill 4!" by stacking the deck against 1 person way too heavily.
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Again who cares... You still got 3 kills. Be happy and move on. Or slug the second to last survivor to deny then..... #########!Raptorrotas said:
I would go a bit strcter and make it so that the hatch closes once a gate is OPENED.Wolf74 said:My suggestion:
-The hatch should not open if ANY survivor already escaped.
No more greedy survivor wasting time searching the hatch, if others already escaped through the gate.
We don't need the excuse "but the killer was at the gate". Of course he is, but there are TWO gates and he can't be at both.
Also, no hatch for the last survivor if another survivor already escaped by using a key.
OGlilSPOOK20 said:
Killers dont get anything for not getting a 4k, as do survivors for not escaping.Killer gets 3 kills and 1 escapes... Who cares just move onto the next game. 3 kills mean you did a great job.
1 Survivor escaping every now and then is fine and getting that 4th kill is like a bonus. I'm getting tired of seeing these how to fix hatch standoffs post.
Killer shouldn't be expecting a 4K every damn game. Stop having these ridiculous standoffs that waste time for both of you... Just let that survivor have the hatch and say gg and [BAD WORD] start another game. At the end of the day you're still gonna rank up.
Both get a payment in Bp for doing their jobs.
The hatch spits on that part by granting the last one a shortcut iut of the trial AND giving not just the (in my opinion undeserved) reward for escaping but another 2000bp bonus just because.1 -
Exactly the last survivor can only escape if a certain amount of gens are done and 3 other survivors are dead. They're complaining about something stupid. Either slug the second to last survivor or just let the last survivor go because at the end of the day they got 3 kills and still ranked up.Dwight_Fairfield said:
Not really. The hatch doesn't automatically spawn for the last survivor. You have to have completed a certain number of gens for that. Even then that is far from being a guarantee that you'll escape in it.Sandt21 said:
One could argue that the existence of the hatch screams “I’m entitled to escape just because I lasted the longest.”NOptions 1 and 2 sorta scream "I'm entitled to kill 4!" by stacking the deck against 1 person way too heavily.
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Just start a timer when the second last person died. When it reaches 5 minutes if the last survivor hasn't escaped, the entity will consume him.
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I feel like all three of your original ideas could work together with some changes.
Closing the Hatch should not power the exit gates. The last Survivor should have a base Left Behind effect so the endgame isn’t extremely boring for the Survivor and the Killer should be able to permanently the Survivor’s aura after X seconds of not doing a generator to prevent the game from being held hostage.
As for hatch spawning requirements, I’m not sure if the hatch should require three or four generators to spawn. Two is just too little because of how easy it is complete a gen.0 -
Ok so in regard to my original post, a lot of people seem to think these ideas are outlandish and killer sided.
I think the hatch should be in favor of whoever finds it first. A common complaint from survivors is also that if a match close were implemented, survivors would be stuck having no chance of escape and would be left to hide until the killer DCS, do 2 gens, or pallet loop / sabo farm. I will take that into consideration with my new rework because it is a valid complaint. What is not a valid complainant, however, is that killers think they deserve a 4k. This is the same as saying survivors deserve an escape. That's the whole reason the hatch is under flame right now because it's putting off the vibe that survivors do deserve a free escape.
I will try to find some common ground.
First off-
CONSTRAINTS
1) The match must end quickly when dealing with a hatch interaction (No standoffs and no 'goings on' after the hatch has been interacted with)
2) The hatch must give both parties a fair chance
3) The hatch must not be available early in the trial
4)The hatch must not give bonus points so as to reduce the urge to farm the hatch. 5k for an escape. No more. No less.
REWORK COMPONENTS
None negotiable
1) Survivors with an RBT cannot use the hatch... When the killer is the pig, the hatch will spawn with some red lights that warn the survivor that it is not safe to enter.
2)The killer should have some slight advantage when dealing with the hatch because they have the superior strength, drive and the home turf advantage if you would
3) The hatch will never spawn when more than 1 survivor is still on the map. (This will prevent survivors from prioritizing the hatch over helping each other)
THE REWORKS (In order of least fair to most fair)
1) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as the jump into the hatch. However, the killer can jump into the hatch and end the game. It will give him 7k points and the last survivor will be considered dead. (This is the current hatch mechanic, but available for the killer too. (It's a bad idea, but the current hatch is really unfair to the killer as it is right now when you read that out loud))
2) The killer can close the hatch. After the hatch is closed, it cannot be opened. Closing the hatch will power the exit gates and open them by 10% if 3 gens were left, 20 for 2 and 30
3) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as they attempt to use the hatch. When the killer and survivor are both in hearing distance of the hatch, the killer can hit the survivor to activate a skill check battle.
The animation would be the killer grabbing the survivors ankle and the survivor trying to crawl to the hatch. The winning party will escape through the hatch or mori the survivor respectively.
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Do you really think it's fair to make the last survivor, alone, go through who knows how many jigsaw boxes, and find the hatch vs an competent Pig? Never mind one with perks?M2Fream said:Ok so in regard to my original post, a lot of people seem to think these ideas are outlandish and killer sided.
I think the hatch should be in favor of whoever finds it first. A common complaint from survivors is also that if a match close were implemented, survivors would be stuck having no chance of escape and would be left to hide until the killer DCS, do 2 gens, or pallet loop / sabo farm. I will take that into consideration with my new rework because it is a valid complaint. What is not a valid complainant, however, is that killers think they deserve a 4k. This is the same as saying survivors deserve an escape. That's the whole reason the hatch is under flame right now because it's putting off the vibe that survivors do deserve a free escape.
I will try to find some common ground.
First off-
CONSTRAINTS
1) The match must end quickly when dealing with a hatch interaction (No standoffs and no 'goings on' after the hatch has been interacted with)
2) The hatch must give both parties a fair chance
3) The hatch must not be available early in the trial
4)The hatch must not give bonus points so as to reduce the urge to farm the hatch. 5k for an escape. No more. No less.
REWORK COMPONENTS
None negotiable
1) Survivors with an RBT cannot use the hatch... When the killer is the pig, the hatch will spawn with some red lights that warn the survivor that it is not safe to enter.
2)The killer should have some slight advantage when dealing with the hatch because they have the superior strength, drive and the home turf advantage if you would
3) The hatch will never spawn when more than 1 survivor is still on the map. (This will prevent survivors from prioritizing the hatch over helping each other)
THE REWORKS (In order of least fair to most fair)
1) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as the jump into the hatch. However, the killer can jump into the hatch and end the game. It will give him 7k points and the last survivor will be considered dead. (This is the current hatch mechanic, but available for the killer too. (It's a bad idea, but the current hatch is really unfair to the killer as it is right now when you read that out loud))
2) The killer can close the hatch. After the hatch is closed, it cannot be opened. Closing the hatch will power the exit gates and open them by 10% if 3 gens were left, 20 for 2 and 30
3) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as they attempt to use the hatch. When the killer and survivor are both in hearing distance of the hatch, the killer can hit the survivor to activate a skill check battle.
The animation would be the killer grabbing the survivors ankle and the survivor trying to crawl to the hatch. The winning party will escape through the hatch or mori the survivor respectively.
The hatch never spawning before there's 1 person left screws up key users, and the achievements/trophy. Pretty sure in your desire to screw survivors, you hadn't considered how to compensate them.
I'm ok with the killer being able to escape through the hatch.
Not a fan of the partial powering of the gate by closing the hatch. It needs to be a strategic choice, and your version doesn't feel like it. It feels like a way to annihilate a survivor after the killer camps the hatch and sees the survivor.
Open the gates in exchange, or nothing.
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We need XXL hatchs so any killer can enjoy their free hatch escape!M2Fream said:1) However, the killer can jump into the hatch and end the game. It will give him 7k points and the last survivor will be considered dead. (This is the current hatch mechanic, but available for the killer too. (It's a bad idea, but the current hatch is really unfair to the killer as it is right now when you read that out loud)).0
