Swf is fine
I know a lot of killers hate SWF, but me personally. I have been dealing with red ranks swf since I first started playing this game. Yep even when I was still a baby I still went against stacked red/purple rank SWF. The thing is, is that I just dealt with it. The thing is with SWF compared to solo's is just communication, and sure it can be strong, but most SWF groups are just your average players. They aren't good, and in my experience on dealing with them a lot. You can exploit SWF groups pretty easily. They tend to cause more blunders and mistakes then your average solo players. Of course you can come across the 5k+ hour teams, and yes it can be a sweaty game, but that's how you improve as a player. I play very casually, and I don't like sweating, and I have no problem facing these teams as Clown/Trickster out of all killers. Yes they are bound to talk more smack then solo players, but the reason why I got so incredibly good at killer was because I put myself through those SWF groups that came loaded with everything in their advantage. You get so good at exploiting these players that you can pretty much beat them without any problems. Your average SWF group is not some deathsquad. Don't blame your losses because of SWF. It's not that hard to beat these teams, and yes I have gone against quite a bit of deathsquads, and yes I have lost, but those are very rare occurrences.
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People really out here convincing people SWF is unbeatable I stg
You'll get destroyed by SWF every now and then but you can destroy SWF sometimes. Don't expect to win all the time.
Anyways I agree.
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The thing is, is that I have had matches where killers in the end game would say that we were SWF when we were all solo's also. Solo's tend to be much more dangerous than SWF groups, because they literally do not care if someone dies on the hook half the time, and will pop gens regardless. The average SWF squad will swarm the hook trying to get the save, and throw the game right there. They make so many mistakes. Most of the time they aren't even using communication to their advantage either, and most of the streamers that I have played back the vod on with their swf team are just talking about random things half the time lol.
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I love fighting SWF as it’s great practice for whatever killer I’m playing
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I think facing SWF as much as I did was the reason why I got to rank 1 killer 8 days after I bought the game lol. It helped me improve like extremely quickly. I still wasn't the best, but I think it helped me learn information the best, and it still does a lot to this very day.
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Agreed, SWF is actually really fun to go against and is a lot more entertaining.
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Only time I don’t really like going against them is if I have a daily for a killer I never play but otherwise I pretty much always enjoy it
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Facing swfs can be fun sometimes for the extra challenge. Facing one of those swfs who focus solely on making your experience miserable is pretty tiresome though I won't lie e.g. Breakdown abuser squads and to a lesser extent, head on squads (Man I hate Head on so much, lol).
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SWF in general is fine. It's a huge but necessary buff. People that like to abuse this fact, however, are not fine. No-one wants to see a team that's got no skill and only rushes gens. There is no competition, it's just two sides struggling to win by default. Same goes for killers spamming Nurse or Spirit.
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Most strategy’s are fairly counter able but breakdown right now is just annoying
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Counter able? Absolutely, they are still intentionally going into the game with the mindset of "We are going to try and make this killer's game miserable for our own amusement". For example, Head on squads can be dealt with if you know what you're doing. However, it's tremendously frustrating to face, at least for me. Every chase becomes more tense because you have to watch out for lockers in case their buddy is in one of them which means you're less focused on the actual chase. By head on stun 3 or 4, I'm basically just sick of the game. It totally can be countered, it just turns the game into a total slog to get through. It's incredibly rare for me, I actually only face 'toxic' squads every now and then and I (luckily) haven't seen a head on squad in months. Nonetheless, it's a bit disheartening to play against when it does happen, I won't lie.
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I’d still rather a squad like that to “4 BNP commodious leave teammates to die” squads. That’s just boring
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4 bnp commodious teams are my favorite though. ;)
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The thing is, is that com's aren't that hard to deal with. Sure the game isn't balanced around com's and SWF but the thing is, is that once you become good enough as killer. The information part for the most part becomes quite useless, and plus like I've said before most teams don't even use comm's acting like a tournament team. They usually use it to talk about random stuff.
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Well since the Devs do not consider it cheating I will go by what they say. You do know they have an official Discord that promotes SWFs right? Or are you saying that the Devs statements regarding cheating are not true?? I mean after all they say tunneling and camping aren't cheating when a large percentage of the community thinks it is - so which do we go by? The Devs or popular opinion???
Waits.....
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Check otz last streams when swf beat crap out of best killers and tell me again how it easy to deal with swf. You want to tell me if not every team doing this it's fine?
It's like telling not everyone would check opponents hand, some are just having fun.
If not all SWFs are sweaty that doesn't mean SWF is magically become balanced and non-problematic because of it
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I get beat by deathsquads too buddy. It ain't just Otz. It's everybody that gets sweaty teams sometimes. How rare is it though? Pretty rare. Why complain about something that doesn't happen frequently?
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But is this poker? No its a multiplayer video game.
What is being cheated? Saying that the killer is here and the killer is there.
Okay? Does that prevent your skills? Does that stop you from downing people?
No, it's just the others know that they are safe...for now.
It's not game-breakingly unfair. Numerous swfs I've played against I've beat.
You win some you lose some.
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Cheating is rare. Let's just close eyes on it. That's your response
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So what you're telling me, is that you want easy games every game? Do you not want to get better at the game? What am I missing out on here? Coms are fine. Swf is fine. If swf was cheating then it wouldn't be in the game. Coms are third party sure, but honestly like I said people rarely use coms to sweat. Sometimes hard games are good to learn new things, and how to counter it.
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LOL
SWF is like wall hacking and maybe more.
Arua perk is existed for a reason.
Does that prevent your skills?
Maybe not just like wall hacking doesn't too.
Does that stop you from downing people?
Of course yes.
You can knowing where have pallets and where don't have in a chase.
Hide yourself from a silent MM even before he walk to the area .
which destory the main ability of mm by a not even in game program.
And lot and lot more advantageous you can gain by this not in game tool
Cheating is cheating.
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SWF is the reason why solo survivors suffer because it's impossible to balance around swf and solo at same time. SWF is bad for both sides. That's what you're missing
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Deathsquads or sweat teams are rare though bro. People can think they are going against sweat teams when it's their own skills that are lacking behind them. Why is my win rate 99/100 games? Their are people who's win rates are insanely high. Pro vengeance almost never loses games either, and a lot of other players don't also. Solo's aren't suffering. Nobody is suffering from SWF's. We don't need to balance around a non existent margin, because actual sweat squads are rare in the first place. In terms of solo's do I think Kindred should be basekit? Sure, but everything else is fine.
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Again cheating is rare so it's fine. I got you
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If the game was designed to have comms it would have it in game from day one. The fact you have to rely on a third party app to use comms says it all. You do realise that Nintendo switch for example has no party chat features or has in game comms?
It's a little naive to expect everyone to have/use discord for a team based game.
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Comm's are not cheating by the game's standards. If comm's were cheating then the dev's would be getting rid of every single person that has been streaming on comm's or anybody that has proof of someone using comm's. It's not cheating. Using tools to exploit the in game system like actual hacking is cheating. Not using voice communication.
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Is using Stretched Res cheating? What about playing with the game/ini files? Was altering the red glow of the killer intended?
Or messing around with sound cards and video filters, so imersion is impossible? Is any of that cheating?
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Can you point me in the direction where i said or mentioned anything about cheating?
I'll wait..
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My bad i hadn't realized i tagged anyone, it was meant as a general post in this thread.
Sorry about that!
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The fact that coms are not in the base game indicates they have some issue with it since it's already heavily requested. They don't ban people for using coms on streams for a variety of reasons 1. Survivors love it and they don't want to lose out on their biggest player population and losing streamers do this hurts them the most financially 2. It's literally impossible to monitor coms since it's unrelated to the game even with video proof.
It just makes sense for them to embrace it by providing discards and such because fighting it is a hopeless battle and will hurt them more financially than anything even though they are unsuccessful.
Just looking over the list of perks should indicate the game isn't designed to have info shared amongst survivors. Coms nullify a lot of downsides of perks, makes effects like blindness irrelevant, and makes a lot of perks unnecessary.
Other than coms, survive with friends is totally fine
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If it was purely an enforceability issue I doubt the devs would go through the trouble of adding the explicit line "We are not banning for the use of communication apps" to their rules. They could've easily left it in that greyzone where so many other things (custom icons, apps like MLGA in the past and much more) if they'd genuinely prefer people didn't talk, they could've told Fog Whisperers to not do it on stream, they could've arranged it so the Discord server didn't have chatrooms obviously intended for use while playing, that sorta thing.
It's not merely okay, it's actively encouraged. And of course it is, "hey buddy want to play this game with me?" is perhaps the most powerful player acquisition method in the world, and unlike marketing and advertisements it doesn't cost heaps of money.
EDIT: And I'm not implying it's only the way it is because they're "greedy" or something. They're just... sane and they're aware of how the multiplayer gaming industry has worked since like.. the 360 and PS3, lol. If your game has any sort of team play involved, you facilitate party play between friends. That simple.
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Some are bad some are sweaty it all depends on the swf team but is it fine? Nope there needs to be some kind of buff to solos to get into the same level are swf. Just add comms and buff killers. Theres nothing to improve with a swf team idk why people keep saying that. Theres nothing stopping them from talking on discord or console voice chat. Every game against a swf ends the same by either slugging or the team getting too altruistic or everyone having bt and ds and getting a 4 man escape if you're lucky maybe 2.
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How come I don't usually have to slug or do any of that and 4k no problem against most swf teams then besides extremely high level players? People gotta look at their skill level too. If you are average at killer then of course you aren't going to have an easy time against an average team also.
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If you got any video proof feel free to share it. The point of the discussion is if swf is fine. But everyone knows the advantages it gives you. If you're the best killer vs the best swf survivors of course the swf team is gonna win. Thats why most killers end up slugging, staying near hook, or dropping a chase and tunneling the worst survivor to create that pressure.
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While that is all true. You are more than reliant on survivor mistakes a lot of the times. Once Twitch unbans me I will give you a link if you wish to watch my matches. I'm also working on a video right now, but I don't think videos show how consistent one can be over a vod or something, but yea if you are interested let me know.
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And yet the Devs have stated NUMEROUS times that comms (of any kind) are not cheating - just like tunneling or camping. Games adapt from their day one release - it's called progress. Developers make changes to games daily to give more options to their users. By your account anything added to the game after day one is cheating - which is nonsensical to say the least. The "defense" of it not being there at launch is fallacious as most games expand/change from their initial launch with new features.
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SWF is basically DBD's boogeyman. If you get yours handed to you, just blame it on the SWF squads.
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people act like it's impossible to beat SWF it's hilarious.
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imagine thinking people who play an online game on comms is "cheating" couldn't be me.
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Okay dude, there is no reason to mock someone instead of trying to actually discuss something. Believe it or not I'm not a baby either man. I barely play survivor myself, but I know for a fact that SWF isn't that hard to face. Like I said before killers over inflate it, because their skill level is so low, and they blame SWF for their loses when they are the one's that don't want to improve lol. Considering the vast majority of my games are SWF I never have problems with these players. Maybe you should look at your own skill level before you try to say SWF is cheating.
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Yep, and the killer mains with like 300 hours in killer will say that swf are so hard to beat when the average swf is usually below solo's lol.
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90% of my games are babies, even at Red Ranks. They run past pallets and window and die in open fields. Going against even mildly coordinated SWFs is the most fun I've ever had in this game, playing since Dec 2016. Killer is in the strongest place it's ever been in the game, and it's not even close.
On top of that, when I SWF with friends you want to know what the comms is? 60% RuPaul memes, 30% dramatic screaming, 8% ripping on each other, and 2% talking about the current match. And yet we still win the majority of games, on average having 1 person die.
The reality is 99% of SWF you face aren't deathsquads, just people messing around with friends barely paying attention to the game. If you are losing frequently enough to that to complain on forums, then maybe the problem isn't "overpowered swf on comms reeeeeeeeee", maybe the problem is that you aren't as good as you think you are.
And no, being "red ranks" doesn't mean anything for validating you opinion. It hasn't for a long time. If you *are* red ranks AND losing that frequently, all it means is you've put in way too much time without any of that time reaping noticeable improvement, and again, the problem is you, not swf comms. A group of good players will win against bad killers, comms or not. Accept it, stop blaming outside factors, and get better.
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I want to be friends with you. You nailed everything I said on the head. You are 100% correct on everything. Always nice to see someone with an actual true mindset of the actual truth about the game. Red ranks are filled with people that should be in yellow, and that's just a fact. The pipping system doesn't mean a whole lot. Like I said before I got to rank 1 killer 8 days after I bought the game. If that doesn't show anybody how easy it is to pip up and win matches even as a brand new player then I don't know what does. The ranking system doesn't mean anything until true MMR comes into play. People base their lack of skill on the actual truth. The truth is, is that your skill isn't there enough to actually win these games consistently. When these survivors generally have no idea what they are doing half the time lol.
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Maybe you're fine with SWFs, and maybe you're right that there are not many sweaty SWFs and most of SWFs are casual players, but that doesn't mean SWFs with voice comms have more advantages than solo ques.
As long as the gap exist between solo ques and SWFs, balancing this game is a nightmare.
Buffing killers based on SWFs makes solo ques even harder, buffing solo ques based on SWFs makes killers even harder.
People who complain about SWFs are not demanding an easy game, just demanding a fair playing field.
The gap between solo ques with 2 simple emotes vs SWFs with full communication over voice comms is way too large to bundle together.
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If it's progress, why do we still not have in game comms?
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I agreed with everything you said until your final line. I would argue comms can help a bad team be slightly better, but they're still individually bad, and they still individually go down in seconds against a competent killer that understands map pressure, good chase mechanics, and knowing when to slug, which are honestly all the most basic parts of being a good killer. Having a little extra "artificial" game sense from comms is not enough to win against a good killer simply because they don't have the skill to take care of themselves.
So is there a gap between comms/no comms? Sure, it's just not nearly as big as many think it is, and a killer with game sense and strategy will win most of the time.
Unless that killer is Trickster. ;)
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I don't think it makes a SWF a bunch of cheaters at every rank. The developers have already said that third-party voice communication programs are not a cheat. However, I would suggest that a SWF, with all the voice-communication advantages it carries, isn't exactly fair at every rank . If we're all being honest, I think we can all admit that a brown ranks SWF, is far less of a threat for a brown-rank killer, than a red-rank SWF is to a red-rank killer. Can we all agree that the very idea that the developers don't seem to care about that difference is a problem?
Post edited by Practical on0 -
I played with an actual, previously existing friend in this game for one day. Roughly five hours. We chatted through Discord. Most of our commentary was chatting to each other about what we like and dislike about the game, him telling me (as it was my very first play) how the game works, general gameplay mechanics, etc. Beyond that it mostly reacting to each other's heated exclamations, laughing and describing things that just happened, discussing what we thought about various maps as we got them, etc.
While this is obviously a little different than the "normal" SWF experience, I can speak for the two of us that this would be our regular candor. I've seen the Leroy Jenkins video like anyone else and all I can say is that when I play games with my friends we don't coordinate like we're in an actual war. We goof each other and have fun.
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I'm on the fence about the whole swf discussion. I see both sides of the argument and agree. The only solution that I can think of is open in game chat. Now from the early on playing killer you will be facing people with the "5th" perk and adapt. It also adds true data on how powerful or weak killers are. Therefore allowing proper buffs or nerfs as needed
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No problem mr modman :)
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