Fixes to Pig, Demo, and Twins.
While these three are not the worst designs in the game, they are significantly flawed, and while other killers need help more deperately, these guys are the worst designs that wouldn't require a full-on rework to fix (unlike killers like Legion, Doctor, or Freddy).
The Pig
For the most part, this killer is well designed. She only really needs a couple minor adjustments, but she needs them quite badly.
- The Pig can now see the progression of Reverse Bear Trap timers
- Crouching now works the same was as Ghost Face, being separate from her stealth.
- Increased the number of Jigsaw Boxes from 4 to 6.
- Rather than having to find "the right box", survivors are now always required to search four boxes.
- RBT's no longer require activation. Upon regaining control of your character, your timer starts.
- In compensation, any survivor having a ticking RBT will now pause the Endgame Collapse.
- You see, devs? This is how you do a "logical" change.
The Dumpling
Demo has a lot of concepts in his kit that aren't delivered on very well.
- Increased movement speed while charging Of the Abyss to 101%
- The Demogorgon no longer needs to stand on top of a portal to travel to another one.
- If he does so, it takes the same time it currently does. If he traverses from a non-portal, he does not leave one behind and takes twice as long.
- Portals can now be activated manually without having to travel through them by standing atop them and channeling abyss for 3 seconds.
- Activated portals will cause the Upside-Down to seep into the area around them, slowly expanding their Oblivious/Tracking AOE (up to a 16 meter radius after 150 seconds have passed)
The Twins
The biggest problems with this killer are time inefficiency and automatic camping/slugging (regardless of what the killer player wants). They're also a bit too abusable by survivors who know what they're doing, even if the Twins play well, which is a problem.
- Charlotte can now pick up Victor if she approaches him, or can induce him to self-destruct from a distance.
- Victor can now drag survivors on the ground or in lockers. Doing so transfers control back to Charlotte and has Victor drag the survivor towards Charlotte at 3 m/s for up to 12 seconds before being crushed (the survivor does not recover upon crushing Victor, it merely stops the dragging and fills 30% their wiggle meter).
- Victor is no longer "crushable" during the cooldown of a successful pounce onto an injured survivor. Cooldown in these cases is three seconds (same as live, buffed compared to PTB).
- Missing induces a 5 second CD, during which you are vulnerable.
Comments
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Pig just became very annoying and borderline OP. But some of those changes are good.
Pig is still weak with her ambush though.
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I don't think it's a good idea to make victor immune if he hits his shots. That means there is little counterplay toward victor. I think the 3 seconds if fine. Also I feel like victor dragging people goes against him as a person. Charlotte's whole purpose is to be able to do the things he is too weak to do. He's the quick speedster while she's the big brute. Would kinda go against him.
Also there are some changed for Twins that could benefit survivor as well. Make it where victors shrieks when idle are directional. From what ik(I don't verse many Twins as survivor so I may be wrong) the sound is omni directional and it's hard to pinpoint where exactly he is sometimes. Making it directional could give crouching survivors a hand.
I don't really play demo so Idk much but I think 6 traps with pig is too strong with add ons so they would have to get rid of add ons or nerf the traps itself. I like the idea of it pausing endgame so endgame pig becomes viable usable again. And I just wish her dash add on was basekit and with her crouch speed being faster with combat straps possibly being base so her add ons r mainly toward her traps
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The Pig changes seem a bit much. Tampered Timer + Crate of Gears would mean every RBT is a guaranteed head pop since it's impossible to search 4 boxes with that add on combo in play.
I think Pig is a very well balanced killer, she's a jack of all trades, master of none kind of killer and I like that about her. More than anything I wish they'd reduce her TR back to what it was at launch to help out her stealth game.
I could MAYBE get behind the RBT idea of tampered + crate got nerfed but in the current state of things, making every single RBT an inescapable death trap would actually be gross and I'm saying this as someone who plays as her lol
Combat straps add on being base kit is an idea i've seen thrown around a lot, idk if it's necessarily a good idea but I'm down for something like that as well.
I'd love to see her get a big add on pass where tampered and crate get nerfed and everything else gets buffed/reworked. The skill check add ons are useless and the status effect RBT add ons just encourage tunneling it's sad.
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The counterplay for Victor is... don't let him hit his shots?
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Yeah I like the ideas of the change with victor dragging people. I also agree making victor immune would make it extremely unfair, given there is little counterplay to victor as is.
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There is counterplay, though. Dodge his pounce, then punish with a kick.
If he straight-up outplays you, he shouldn't get punished for it.
Pig didn't gain any RBT's. The number of boxes survivors can search increased as compensation for the number of searches being standardized to four.
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I always felt like for Pig, a cool idea would be to make the gen progression do more than just activate the bear traps. Maybe a bit extreme, but perhaps the bear traps will instakill any survivor whose trap has been activated when another gen pops. I think this further improves Pig's ability to apply the pressure with the traps. Also possibly making it so that once the first-gen is popped, the bear traps will always be activated regardless of the state of the match. They will deactivate once all gens are done, but will reactivate once the gates are opened.
In my mind, this would make a bit of an interesting dynamic, perhaps making survivors weary of when to pop a gen out of possibly killing their teammate due to bad timing.
Also, the first search for a jigsaw box will always fail. Maybe even let Pig choose which box is the correct one somehow. Just make them more consistent in general so bear traps are actually scary. I have no real ideas for this that'd work.
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Pigs changes would make her traps far too oppressive. Good teams would just loop pig and never get a trap, but bad teams would be destroyed without having a chance.
Imo pigs trap should be just be less rng, so that all survivors combined need to search the same amount of boxes every game and her ambush needs to be buffed. A small change for the ambush would be that the dash attack destroys pallets. Its still not good, but atleast survivor waste pallets quicker.
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Ur saying his counterplay is something the survivors have no control over. A good Twins don't miss. LOS doesn't work that well either since he's so fast and u leave a trail of blood.
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I'm just saying it's pretty hard to dodge a pounce when he's right in front of you. If you go against a good Twins that doesn't miss then what?
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Same as when you go up against a Nurse/Deathslinger/Billy/Huntress/Trickster/Spirit/Pyramid/Plague that doesn't miss.
You got beaten, and as a logical consequence you died.
It doesn't make sense to get a reward in exhange for getting outplayed.
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Alternative suggestion for the pig, because the suggested would make Pig's RBTs too close to guaranteed kills. Like... Chase the RBT wearer off one box and they're dead.
1) Instead of the key being in a random box, the survivor must always search either 2 or 3 boxes. Never more, never fewer. (Barring add-ons)
2) The roar from exiting ambush is postponed until the ambush meter is fully charged. It completely invalidates the stealth on gens with sightlines.
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The Pig can now see the progression of Reverse Bear Trap timers
Spicy. I doubt you'll get much support for this idea, but I'm not against it entirely. Though I probably wouldn't make it base kit but make it an add-on instead to calm some nerves.
Crouching now works the same was as Ghost Face, being separate from her stealth.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean here.
Increased the number of Jigsaw Boxes from 4 to 6.
Rather than having to find "the right box", survivors are now always required to search four boxes.
This feels like overkill. I get that you're removing the RNG aspect from box searching, but 4 searches every time is too much IMO. This also technically makes Sketch and Annotated Plan completely useless, as there is now zero upside to adding extra boxes.
RBT's no longer require activation. Upon regaining control of your character, your timer starts.
I always waffle back and forth on this idea. I think at minimum, if you're going to make Traps auto-start, you should increase the base timer on the Traps at least a little.
In compensation, any survivor having a ticking RBT will now pause the Endgame Collapse.
Yeaaaaa bby that's what I like to see. No more of this "RBTs put on after the gens are done do nothing" garbage.
1) Instead of the key being in a random box, the survivor must always search either 2 or 3 boxes. Never more, never fewer. (Barring add-ons)
I don't like the idea of making it not take more than 3 boxes because then Traps will basically NEVER kill someone (short of hardcore tunneling the Trapped survivor to cheese the timer, which is a problem itself). I fully understand that the Reverse Bear Traps are primarily meant to stall for time and not kill someone, but making it take less than 4 boxes will absolutely make it nigh impossible for someone to die with a Reverse Bear Trap. And if your death trap doesn't kill someone ever, why make a Killer out of someone whose whole gimmick lore-wise is that they use death traps?
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I don't like the idea of making it not take more than 3 boxes because then Traps will basically NEVER kill someone (short of hardcore tunneling the Trapped survivor to cheese the timer, which is a problem itself). I fully understand that the Reverse Bear Traps are primarily meant to stall for time and not kill someone, but making it take less than 4 boxes will absolutely make it nigh impossible for someone to die with a Reverse Bear Trap. And if your death trap doesn't kill someone ever, why make a Killer out of someone whose whole gimmick lore-wise is that they use death traps?
I get where you're coming from, but chance-based kills should just not be a thing. Getting the wrong map and just getting unlucky enough to get a 4-box mask and winding up dead from being downed once and having a teammate kill you off with a gen is just an all around too awful experience.
Yes, thematically, it would make sense, but thematics should still take a backseat to gameplay. I think Pig can be a ton of fun if her Ambush gets fixed, while keeping RBTs as stalling methods.
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See, the part that I latch onto the most is "the wrong map." The maps where the whole RNG Trap thing serves to pose the biggest problem also happen to be the same maps that are just problematic in general for non-Pig reasons. The solution to me in that case is not to change the Trap mechanics; it's to fix the maps.
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