Mettle of man should only require two hits

It definitely needs some kind of a buff but activation on 2 protection hits would be waaaaay too strong.

You only get Endurance while injured. With Mettle of Man at least. It's in the perk's description.

I use Mettle of Man on my David, paired with WGLF, DH, and Babysitter, and it works out okay. It's not a perk you'll get value from every game, but it is fun to use when the time arises. It's also good practice for taking protection hits, which is another thing.

I think MoM is alright, but it could definitely use some love. I was thinking about removing the aura reveal, add a deep wound from getting hit with Endurance, and an additional effect relating to being the obsession (like revealing the Killer's aura to your allies when you get hit or something)

Now that instaheals aren't in the game, I do think it needs to be reverted back to 2 protection hits. Maybe just maybe SWF would be able to abuse it, but it's kind of like new DS now where you have to almost throw the game to get use out of it. Getting off gens and stuff just to take protection hits is not something you just do and hope to get away with in that match.

People in this thread don't realize how much time survivors waste to go out of their way to take 2 protection hits, never mind 3...then heal up as well so playing in the sweat fest that is Rank 1 against Killers like Spirit, Nurse etc...who can gain a lot of map pressure, it doesn't make sense for me to go and try to take protection hits while someone is being carried etc..just to get a stack on a perk that can stop me from going down once in a game. I'd have to waste quite a bit of time doing that which in the long run of the game will make us lose.

If it was dropped to 2 hits it would be more balanced and you know if the protection hit actually worked...which 50/50 chance without someone being carried you take a hit next to a survivor you generally don't get the protection hit in my experience.

Actually you know what, since Ash has the perks for the whole dying state like Flip-flop, Buckle Up. With a Mettle of Man rework, give me a stack for getting someone off the ground whos being slugged and that way you can have another way to earn a stack but keep it at 3.

Exactly bro, the majority of games players don't even get a single protection hit score. You have to actively be looking to get them, and even if you try hard to get them, you often still miss out on them because protection hits are finicky things.

The few times I've SUCCESSFULLY run MoM I've had to work my @$$!^;## off to get the 3 hits, and it basically ended up throwing the game. It's been a while since I've run the perk (since I only had it on Switch) but I honestly don't recall ever winning any of the games where I got MoM to activate.

People don't think about how MoM is:

- Time wasted off of objectives (a LOT of time wasted- you basically have to follow people getting chased around to farm hits)

- THREE different heals (a minimum of 48 seconds, not counting all the time it takes to run away and find a heal if you didn't bring a purple med kit with good add ons)

Old MoM was broken because you basically got it activated simply by existing in the gameplay and participating in normal game play. EVERYONE could take it and activate it for free. With current MoM, it would be virtually impossible for more than one or two survivors to activate it once per trial. I can't even imagine a game where you get it to work twice with one survivor.

I truly don't think that cutting it down to two protection hits would make it busted- I at least think it would be a fair thing to trial in a PTB sometime in the future. Your aura being shown is a downside, you wasting time to farm those protection hits is a downside, bla bla bla, it's definitely a piece of work to activate and even just having to get two protection hits instead of three of them PROBABLY wouldn't be a big deal.

Funny thing today I ran Breakout and MoM. I finally had full stacks of it and I got hit through a downed pallet with it. My soul died inside after all that work to get the stacks and healing up.

how about we just keep it as is and remove the aura penalty

That's because typically you get alot more value out of protection hits alone, in turn making up the 3 hit condition for the perk.

For example, if you take a protection hit that happens to save a survivor from hook, you basically in the process gain back two of those hits as now the killer has to hit whomever again wasting one of they're hits. They also need to redo chase which assume the survivors are competent can take a while, meaning now you are making the killer further negative in time, AND you fulfil a condition for the perk in turn later able to be used at key moments whenever you feel like it to tank through whatever the killer is doing for some major disruption.

Again, it rewards you for doing actions that you should not be rewarded for (taking any form of damage), and even if the person got hooked (which is bad play on your part as what was the point of the protection hit in this case?) you still fulfil a condition.

Healing is quite fast as it takes 16 seconds at base with the default survivor heal rate, and two survivors double it to make it 8 seconds. Which in turn, very much so simply for playing with a group of people (which is common, at least on pc due to groups such as the Official DBD Discord) would make healing back not such a issue. Then again, you are assuming you even want to heal due to the fact then typically gens are priority and therefore you can heal whenever you want as its not really a threat to be low health unless you are poor at chases.

Its clearly implicated that if this perk was around with those ideas proposed that is true IF anyone has the perk in the game, and even if it wasn't that is how killers would feel. Always worrying it is and it could be and that would pressure killers just by being a change in the game.

Then stop using the same meta perks, survivors don't even need them to win because of they're base kit being the best in the game and they all have the same great base kit. If your issue is "I have to use these same perks" then that's just not correct. You are choosing to use the same x/7 perks for reasons unknown to me.

This second part is silly, the reason a killer slugs is both subjective and entirely situational. For example, I think it is a good idea to slug if someone unhooks next to me after I just hooked someone as they likely do have DS and I don't want to eat it if I have no reason too. The amount of time it takes away for you to get stunned by DS can be game changing entirely based on the situation so I find this assertion it doesn't matter comical.

There is builds for slugging but unless you are nurse, or a absolutely cracked A tier killer they aren't very affective at all because slugging doesn't do anything but waste the survivors time and its completely reliant on the survivors to take advantage of the missed hooked opportunity's when it happens, and also punish the killer by ceasing to heal and instantly do gens after picking up a survivor. Its like you don't even understand you have to optimize slugging for when it specifically wastes survivors time, adds pressure or has a unique condition its fulfilling.

IE: Slugging for a end game 4k so the last survivor doesn't find hatch.

Recklessly slugging is a surefire way to outright lose.

That's your fault for using a perk with a specific niche incorrectly. Its to reward smart play during situations in which you save/help survivors in need.

Its not to recklessly try to fulfill its requirements just for the potential of being a 3 hit down survivor.

No, Its just as said before its a mindgame. If you know what you are doing you can literally make every situation she uses her power a 50/50 chance for her to guess where you are and that is a issue because that makes her power involve luck and as we see time and time again luck will make or break your power.

Nope, if I was happy with it I wouldn't be highlighting the issues with both survivor and killer. There does need to be balance changes, but right now the game is objectively survivor sided and adding more clutch perks for survivors is just a bad idea.

None of what you're saying is ever going to really happen in a solo queue game or even majority of red rank games. Survivors have to be efficient as possible to actually try and win since most Good Killers these days can actually pressure a map that well that no more than 2 gens can get done. Not to mention the amount of Dead Zones and about 3 hooks per tile. This game is not Survivor sided and even the bloodpoint amount suggests that. Some Killers I escape against and if they get no kills also end up with more points than the whole survivor team. DS is rarely used now as well because that got a stupid nerf so Killers barely slug anymore anyways. But as you say "recklessly slugging loses games" which i've never heard anyone says, the Killers that slug (which btw is probably one of the most powerful methods a killer has to gain pressure) are the ones that generally win games easy as well.

Yeah let's have over altruistic survivors triple healing while one person is on hook or running from killer = 0 gen progress with the possibility of ruin being up as well so there's more pressure for the Killer.

Seems you really don't understand how pressure works in this game in the top ranks because all you're dishing out at me is theoretical situations and scenarios. Just admit MoM is a terrible designed perk because everyone else pretty much agrees. It's not about having to go out your way for Protection hits it's also gifting the Killer more health states which also gifts them more pressure...and like I said Protection Hits only have a chance to work if you're standing by another survivor, they only really work when someone if being carried to one of the 3 hooks per tile that we seem to get in every map now, which btw also renders even MORE survivor perks useless.

You also seemed to miss my point when i say i've got to run the same 4/7 perks. Trying to run other builds that don't include Borrowed TIme & Iron Will seem utterly pointless because there's too many perks in the game that require about 2/3 other perks to actually get any use out of. What's the point in running a perk like Flip-Flop or Buckle Up when there's busted Hook RNG in the game. Yeah let's also try Tenacity, Unbreakable, Soul Guard or something...another useless perk build that would probably work once in about 10 games, or let's run prove thyself and then get the Killer camping and tunneling because we "gen rush"...you see my point here? It seems to make no sense to waste your time running anything else because too many niche perks in the game require a stupid playstyle or have a 1 in 10 game chance to actually be effective.

"ThE bAsE sUrViVoR kIt Is GoOd WiThOuT pErKs" the fact that you think that is hilarious, let's see how well 4 random survivors with no perks would do in every game.......

It's like you're trying to make it out that perks shouldn't exist for Survivor because let's all have the same playstyle and repetitive gameplay.

The fact you don't even know how bad the "protection hit" detection is on the game just shows you don't actually play survivor.

Also DS USED to be one of the most used perks in the game. Now you barely see it or even see an obsession in games because no one wants to use it anymore since the nerf.

Also you're literally just sounding like everyone else on the forum with every argument..."you must be new to the game"...the fact you think Slugging isn't a strong play against Survivors just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Some Killers can end the game at 5/4 gens just by slugging...

Uhhh... so I hate to break it to you bud, but I'm gonna also say a hard 'no' to this as well.

Survivor is definitely not OP, (Let alone base kit only survivors) in most scenarios of this game.

The only time Survivors are truly OP, are when you are against a great, well-coordinated, OoO SWF group (which, won't even be an issue with the OoO changes coming in.) or you're playing at a Tournament level. (I'll also admit that Survivors can also be OP if they're using an actual infinite, however, those are pretty few and far between.)

Otherwise, I'd argue that most Survivors are most definitely beatable if you play well. Sure, will you still lose the occasional match because of some crappy RNG with your Ruin spawn, Pallet Spawns, or just an unlucky map for your Killer? Totally. Will some Killers struggle more than others? Of course, not every killer is created equal.

But those are the same things that any player faces, be it when they play Killer or Survivor.

Sure, a decent SWF might be hard to beat, but they're definitely not impossible, nor are they the top dog if you play well. (Again, can also depend on RNG). Of course, Perks can play to or against your advantage, but at least in my experience, while a lot of people can run the same meta builds (You see quite a bit of DH with console SWFs at least, but I'm not going to say that there's a full meta team in every lobby because... well, there just isn't.) that doesn't mean they'll use them well. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Survivors make a mistake with one of their perks, the Killer didn't capitalize on it, and then would wonder why they struggled. (Or, a Killer/Survivor team making the same mistake, repeatedly, never learning from it, and wondering why they lose.)

(I'd also like to make the point that Decent SWF are hard to beat, just like a good Killer with a hardcore meta-build against an average Solo Group or an average SWF who's just a bunch of buds are also just rough and hard to beat. It's honestly p fair on both sides to that regard...)

I also just wanted to note that I think you missed the other user's point in the last part of their post... There are a lot of niche perks in the game, that can be hard to justify bringing over perks that are much more guaranteed to get you value. That in itself is fine, but when you also bring in the fact that there are a lot of niche perks that aren't even really strong in their niche scenarios compared to other perks, it can be hard to justify bringing them, if you're playing to escape/get a 4k. (For example, it's hard to justify bringing Flip-Flop when there are a lot of hooks on the maps, the wiggle you get isn't great, and it's so situational, that when you're put in that scenario, you're probably better off to have brought Unbreakable in the first place. Or for Killers, it's hard to justify bringing a perk like Gearhead, when you can just bring something like Thrilling and get more guaranteed value from it.) (Granted, I don't really care in that regard, I play casually, so I'll just run whatever I feel like- there are a lot of niche perks that can do great things with good set up, but they just aren't as reliable, so I can see where someone who is playing to escape would be frustrated with them...)

Yes, because they objectively can.

False strawman.

False assertion.

Still is one of them, to think otherwise is silly.

Ironically you sound like the minority of people I have met on the forums, the type that ignore all the point you brang up.

If you aren't going to argue the points coolio, but you are still objectively wrong and all the point you've ignored stand.

You still have offered no retort.