How come deathslinger hasn't been reworked?
His power is not necessarily overpowered by any means because he has no map pressure, which is where he needs buffed, but his chase interaction is so insufferable. This was said a lot when he came out and people still don't enjoy playing against him because there isn't much counterplay to his power in open maps and at small loops. It's similar if not worse to how pyramid heads power was when he came out but that was changed whereas deathslinger remains untouched. I hope the devs are aware of how frustrating his power feels to play against.
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The thing about slinger is this:
If you give him a windup like huntress, his ability becomes unusable, as sometimes you have to quickly lower and raise the gun. NOT to fake a shot and M1 people, but to be able to better change positions to get a shot in.
If you'd make him faster to make up for the windup time, you'd have to lower the chain length to not have him be able to come up too quickly, windup or not, and M&A or not. This would make a lot of longer shots impossible and lead to a lot of M1 again.
The best change for him would be the introduction of dynamic map generation, so that maps are slightly different depending on the killer. In caleb's case this would mean, for example, maps are generally smaller and a bit more condensed, but with more obstacles to dodge behind that can be shot through but not over, meaning you oughta know what you are doing on either side.
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I honestly have no idea what balance to his current power would work, that's why I think his power needs a rework. I don't want him made weaker I just want some sort of quality of life change for both sides...
As his power stands now he is the least fun killer for me to play against to the point where I want to disconnect because I know I won't have fun in the chases. And this is coming from someone who never disconnects (even if it's a stridor spirit)
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He's fine as it stands,
He needs no Rework in general.
He has No Map Pressure but good 1v1.
Just Keep blocking LoS and Pre-throw against him to avoid getting downed / hit,
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I think you cant rework his power without reworking his entire lore, which, no.
What could work to make him more fun to go against would be barring him from the crutchperks so many red ranks insist you MUST use on him:
stbfl and M&A.
Like, i do get a lot of positive feedback from red rank survivors (whenever the matchmaking goes 'screw it' again and puts them in my lobby) for my build, saying that I'm much more fun to go against than other slingers, BECAUSE i don't run those perks.
so... yeah.
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He is not fine as it stands, his power is the same as pyramid heads old power which was addressed and adjusted. Yes he has "counters" (line of sight) and yes he lacks map pressure but that doesn't mean hes fun to play against.
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I don't want his power changed to something else completely but every aspect of his power needs looked at and adjusted to make him more fair for survivors and stronger for killers. They could add a grappling hook to his gun for mobility.
It's like when Overwatch reworked Brigitte, they didn't just get rid of her shield and health packs but they changed values to change her play style
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yeah, but how to adjust it. as said:
you can't make him fast while keeping the chain the same length.
you can't make the chain shorter without making the tr smaller
you can't change the scoping without making him faster.
It's a bloody cycle.
You can't undo the deep wound from the chain breaking without making the chain more durable to make up for that. if they chain's more durable, you can't have it short, and...
It's pretty much 'there's a whole in the bucket' with guns
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I'm gonna be honest, I'm all but certain that if they just copy/pasted Demogorgons windup/aim speed, times and aim sensitivity then Slinger would be much better to face and still just as dangerous.
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Exactly, that's the thing, Demogorgon is just a balanced version of Deathslinger and what Pyramid Head used to be. It's so weird that they couldn't have made different powers for Deathslinger considering they already nailed it the first time with Demo.
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Because there's nothing really wrong with him.
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But demo will make distance with it, deathslinger doesn't. that's why I'm saying you can't really give him any sort of longer windup.
there is something that might be done about short distance shots (same for huntress and short distance throws) though
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Deathslinger is fine where he is, he is a loop ending killer and that’s how he should remain. If you wanna counter any Deathslinger is stay behind tall walls and throw down pallets early if your at one and he is trying to shoot you. Try to dodge his gun the best you can, trust me you will face good Deathslingers from time to time, but remember just because you probably had a bad experience playing against him you shouldn’t be crying for reworks/nerfs, just learn his counters.
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Exactly. He has counterplay but not as much as other killer and that's to make up the fact with his power and movement speed he can't apply pressure on many survivor & can't apply pressure on gen.
If you nerf him somewhere you have to buff him elsewhere. You'll have to tweak his entire kit and even then survivor are still gonna whine. Maybe bigger terror radius, .05 or 1s for aiming but make him 115%? Strong killer will still be able to down you quickly and survivor will still have to be optimal about their window/pallet vault & blocking LoS, they'll have a better head start that could maybe force DS player to shoot for both hit?! IDK
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A good Slinger won't need to make distance. He'll still have the exact same problem of not really having counterplay, there's nothing that can ever change that, but he'll no longer have the issue of zoning by existing.
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Still better to face than Hag...
Spirit..
Ph.
Twins.
Freddy...
He has counters. which are all easy to do,
Just cause a killer isn't "Fun" Doesn't mean he needs a rework,
That's like saying You're reworking Billy so he can't Curve and be a actual fun M2illy anymore,
Or Nurse can't blink through Solid objects anymore,
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Not really because survivor would have much more time to break LoS and "hide" behind a LoS blocker. Look at Otz video, where the Deathsligner tried to get a hit through a hole in Shack. Both the killer & survivor were so ######### close to each other yet the survivor realize what was happening and stop moving forward preventing Deathsligner from a hit. Now imagine if you had a 1s cooldown before aiming. As long as survivor realize they only need to break LoS and stop moving forward he wouldn't be able to use his power at all and just be a regular 110% M1 killer, yay.
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The question is: doe it feel like he doesn't have much counterplay because he actually doesn't, or because people are very insistent on looping and juking him like other killers?
cause, you CAN tell when he's faking a shot, you can evade the shots by sidestepping instead of strifing.
the strifing a lot of survivors do is what makes the 'zoning' an issue, as that makes them lose distance. He has a hitdot, you don't need to evade him the same way as huntress' fridges
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Honestly it would be really difficult to rework him, and tbh I feel like he's in a good state atm. He definitely has the best zoning and chase abilities in the game, but he suffers from crappy movement speed and nonexistent mobility. Quite neutral on his terror radius, though.
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Exactly.
People: See how you can dodge Trickster's knives while strafing only a little? That's how much you need to move ya ass to dodge a Deathsligner's shoot-> barely anything. Instead people try to dodge an invisible
flying fridgeHuntres's hatchet.1 -
Wouldn’t it be funny if you could shoot the environment and drag yourself towards it? Imagine seeing harpoon cowboy drifting around the map on a steel chain with a modified rifle.
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because he is perfectly balanced the way he is.
he sucks at everything, but makes up for that by excelling in one thing - the chase.
you literally can not nerf his chase potential without turning him into Trickster (who is the perfect example of Deathslinger done wrong), alias the worst killer in the game.
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That would actually be funny.
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As a former Slinger main, I can absolutely say that he does not have counterplay. Not even holding W, breaking LoS and predropping pallets, the thing that everyone insists works against him. His projectile is just too small, it can hit you nearly anywhere. And the fact that he basically moves around as a 110 killer with a fully charged hatchet the size of a pinhead that gets released in half a second means that yes, he is zoning people by existing.
The only counterplay is calling a bad Slinger's bluff. Which doesn't help agaisnt a good Slinger. So why not remove the thing that makes a bad Slinger unbearable? It worked for Nurse.
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I wish they would because he's absolutely miserable to play against. And it's strange that they reworked Pyramid Head's power yet don't touch the exact same problem that Deathslinger has (free zoning/hits due to no m2 windup or winddown).
Sadly they probably won't touch him because he's not overperforming statistically.
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Everyone who says that his power is balanced is wrong because the devs themselves changed pyramid heads power which did the EXACT same thing; free zoning just because they faked their power. It's either vault and get hit, or don't vault and get hit. It's not interactive, it's not fun, and there is no real counterplay other than losing line of sight against a killer who is still faster than you and can gain distance by faking their power.
Post edited by jakesotto on1 -
While he can injure you from almost everywhere, he can't properly down you from everywhere. If you're at 10+m and put an object between you and him, when you factor in the delay of the hit+latency, unless he have chain add-ons, he won't be able to M1 you, same for dropped pallet. And like I and other said many times you don't need to move 10miles on the side to dodge. Just vary your movement/strife so you're not 100% predictable.
Also it's not rare for a Deathsligner to shoot someone at 10+m and for the survivor to get hit yet still vault a window/pallet/drop a pallet because of the 0.25s it take for the harpoon to hit at 10m+latency. That mean you don't get to put the survivor in dying state and have a long ass cooldown from breaking the chain+reloading.
It's the exact same reason why survivor are able to vault a pallet/window when getting shocked by Doctor, latency play a huge factor. Or how you can get some late down with Bubba (&Billy?) on a vault because of how big their hitbox is, the way hit validation work & latency.
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I agree plz rework Deathslinger. With Behaviors track record of reworks, reworks = players don't choose the killer. I don't enjoy playing against deathslinger, I don't know anyone who does enjoy playing against deathslinger. I'd like to see him not make it into lobbies anymore.
Also can you please unrework hillbilly.
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Nailed what? Demo is one of the worst killers in the game. You seriously want DS to be at that level?
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Demos shred is not weak, beyond needing the rat liver base kit. The reason deathslinger is better than demo is because his power has 0 counterplay where demos is actually balanced. If you watch someone like bronx who has taken the time to put hours into demo and mastered his shred, he is a force to be reckoned with. Whereas deathslinger, you can play him and get more value than demo because he has no chase counterplay.
In fact, demo is one of my favorite killers to play against because he's fair. He gets hits when he deserves them. Deathslinger gets hits for no reason.
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And what happens if the Slinger just walks a little closer instead of taking an insanely risky shot for no good reason?
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I don't know why it is so hard for people to grasp the fact that faking power does not equal a deserved hit. It's the problem with spirit, it's the problem with slinger and it's the problem that pyramid head used to face. It's unbalanced.
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Demo is above Deathsligner, both are under the average & under perform. Unlike many I think Demo buff should focus more on his portal but I can't decide what BHVR work on.
In no way DS is better than Demo. Unless you play vs complete potatos that don't even try to break LoS and strife 10miles on each side, you down people about as fast as Demo & DS. Only difference is mastering Demo's Shread take more time than having good aim with Deathsligner.
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I’m sure he is your favorite to play against.... he is bad. I don’t care about streamers playing him. Most streamers can 4k consistently with any killer because the majority of survivors are bad at the game.
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How can you rework a man with a gun ?
Give him a horse ?
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Nurse and Oni are also at the top of my list to play against and they're strong. It has nothing to do with their performance level. It has to do with their skill ceiling. Deathslinger takes no skill because he can feign his power and win chases because of it. And Demo is not bad, just because you're not good with him it doesn't make him a bad killer.
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My point is that he's not as oppressive as people say he is. Long shot are only good if you're out in the open or the person isn't injure. VS an injure survivor you only want to take long shot if they're out of position otherwise you chase them at 110% and wait a good opportunity. If the survivor make it to a pallet, he can considerably increase the chase duration. Keep pallet for only when injured, like vs a legion. Evaluate your surrounding, see what window./pallet can be used to extend the chase, when he's at 10m+ don't try to strife a huntress's truck.
No you won't be able to run him for 5 gen but from what I've seen when playing him and vs him you can do all of the above to extend the chase as much as possible and since he's trash at everything else he SHOULDN'T have the opportunity to go for a 12hook even with good perk on him.
The problem is people aren't efficient at running him and do plenty of mistake which lead him to down people quickly and apply lot of pressure that way.
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didn't you just say rat liver should be basekit?
I'd personally like it to be, but rat liver is used most for zoning and faking your power. that's an inconsistent argument.
why do you want rat liver base? because bronx said he wants it base?
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Considering the rate of DC when I play killer or when I watch a stream, every killer/perk/addons aren't enjoyable.
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Because he's only a year old.
It took them almost five years to get DS in a reasonable place, which was 100% without a doubt disgustingly overpowered.
Deathslinger, who isn't nearly as much of an objective, omnipresent issue, is obviously gonna take a while to get patched.
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I consistently beat demo as survivor... try again
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I dont watch bronx but I mentioned him because he's good with demo and showcases his potential. Just like nurse... you cant just pick her up and be a god, it takes time and skill. That's why demo is balanced, rat liver or not. It has counterplay, it has mindgame potential. Spirit, old PH and Slinger do not. You get to a T&L and it's either vault and get shot or dont vault and get m1'd. You can try to make distance but he can just fake his gun and if you maneuver he gains distance because he is still faster than you.
And I dont know why everyone who is responding is acting like I want deathslinger gutted and nerfed to oblivion because I never said that. I want him to be reworked, made stronger where he needs it and balanced where needed.
You cannot tell me that a killer who gets free hits for doing nothing is balanced. It's the reason he's frustrating to play against. Pyramid head was changed for a reason and death slinger has the same problem that needs addressed.
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You're just saying nonsense at this point. I know that I'm right about deathslinger because OLD pyramid head had the EXACT same power and he got adjusted. Now pyramid heads judgement is balanced because you have to make predictions instead of faking your power. Deathslinger, again, does not. You can fake your shot and get a hit either way. That's not fair.
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On the notion of giving him a 'Grabbling hook' ability for mobility:
If this doesn't mean we can swing cross the melting pot on ironworks and kick a teabagging nea in the face it's not worth it.
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maybe something that can be done is giving survivors more control in their movement while being speared?
that way when you’re speared as a survivor you aren’t just dead- it would also require more forethought from both sides
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That's honestly a much needed change, give a clear indication how to break the chain.
And coming back to the idea with demo's shred:
It really wouldn't work.
- The grabbling hook idea would just look and feel ridiculous. even in a game where we have killers like blight or trickster.
- the shred timing for the shots won't work cause, as mentioned, demo has something to make up for missing, as do huntress and trickster. Caleb does not. It's one shot and you have to reload. with an additional windup time, especially if you'd have to stand still, it would render his ability entirely useless.
And before anyone goes and says anything about 'good slinger players won't have the problem'... think about how new players should then get good with him, if this idea would render him more useless than Trickster
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Imo there have been more pressing issues to deal with. The Freddy, Huntress, Blight, and Wraith changes were all sorely needed. Keys still need work, MMR is still not finished, etc.
I know Deathslinger is annoying in chase, but you said yourself that he's not a top-tier Killer. If they nerfed his gun, he would need a strong secondary ability like Pyramid Head's cages to compete.
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I hope though that they do give us dynamic maps at some points. Cause i stand with my evaluation that that (and giving survivors a better hint at how to break the chain + maybe changing the aiming sound) is the only decent way to fix the issues with slinger.
Grabbling Hooks, longer wind-up etc, none of that pans out. at all.
Also: no, PH's power and the redeemer are NOT the same.
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Because he is one of the most fun killers to play and if you ruin that he will literally just be a ######### huntress.
He is an easy win for most coordinated teams. But at least you get to have fun playing him whilst getting absolutely crushed
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P-head is 115 and has timesaving with his cages for pseudopressure.
Deathslinger his chase is all he has. They are not comparable
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He doesn't need mobility, he's a chase specialist killer, his pressure comes from playing his chases perfectly.
Open maps with small loops are death sentence vs all killers with any kind of good chase power, that's nothing specific to slinger.
PH's power deals direct damage, goes through walls, is spammable while he's 115% and has also cages to create even more pressure. Not comparable.
Just because some people don't like facing strong chase power such as slinger's doesn't warrant changes as there are also people who like to face him (me beiing one of them), the options for chase counterplay (not even metioning the other ones like spreading up or using stealth) are already there, it's very difficult to preform but it exits. Balance wise, he's fine and doesn't need any changes.
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