http://dbd.game/killswitch
Make Hooks behave like Cages
I've always been fascinated by Pyramid Head's cage system. It got me thinking, why not make Hooks behave similarly to the Cages?
Obviously we'd still need the killer to pick up and carry the survivor. But how about when the killer hooks someone, that survivor immediately gets sucked into the ground by the Entity and then brought back up on another hook elsewhere? Remove the ability for the killer to see the hooked survivor's aura and make it so that if the killer gets too close, the survivor gets sucked back up and moved to another hook just like the cages.
And, of course there would be a few key things to note. The Basement should behave as it does now. If someone is hooked in the basement, they will stay there and not teleport. Perks like Devour Hope and Make Your Choice will behave the same and even give the killer some extra info by lighting up while they're active, showing the killer that they are far enough away from the hooked survivor despite not knowing exactly where that is.
I'm not saying it's perfect. But this could be good. It would add an extra element to the game while also helping out a lot with the camping problem that lots of people have a problem with.
EDIT: Wanted to add that this would also prevent people from unhooking right in your face too. Say you're chasing someone and they run to the hook during the chase. You just denied them the unhook, likely downed them, and now forced people to redirect their attention to another part of the map if they want to rescue the hooked survivor.
Comments
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I've been saying this since they released PH, it would drastically cut down the camping potential if implemented well.
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Maybe an offering? Who would use it, killers or survivors? Both?? That would be fun I think.
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I think this would change the overall gameplay enough to be an offering. I was saying this should become the norm.
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I'm down. Where's the petition to sign?!
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That would take away the uniqueness from pyramid head and be detrimental to killers. Survivors could just go in the general area of where the hooked survivor would appear and almost instantly save.
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Exist to sign if you ask me!
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Maybe it could function on a timer? Like, killer stands within x meters for y seconds, then the survivor teleports to another hook?
That way, survivors have no way of knowing really where they'd go, but it also allows killers to not camp and keep them there.
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This is a great solution to camping/face camping. I agree to this a 100%. I hope the devs implement this. This is by far the best way to deal with it. imo
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You say it takes away the uniqueness from PH and then also say that it would be detrimental to killers. By that logic, PH must be the worst killer in the game.
Also, hooking someone that isn't on death hook isn't supposed to be a free kill.
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The problem with this is that pyramid head's cages are TERRIBLE. This would be a massive nerf to killers. Right now 9 times out 10 it's a bad idea to use pyramid head's cage. The free unhook you give early-mid game is not worth the 5-10 seconds you save picking someone up to place them on a hook. You might as well just have a survivor randomly respawn and lose a hook state and completely remove the un-hooking mechanic at that point.
Right now when you hook a survivor you at least somewhat know a zone where survivors HAVE to be/will be interested in at some point in the near 2 minute future. You basically obliterate that completely by making hooks just randomly pop survivors up all over the map without any knowledge on the killers part.
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That sounds like a great idea, and I used to think it would be good for the game... But like it or not, there's a reason killers patrol hooks. Map pressure is huge and getting more important by the day as survivors adopt a far less interactive playstyle. Getting a survivor on a hook in an area with gens is huge, and removing that would be a huge nerf even if it makes the game more fun, because it reduces potential interactions.
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Ngl, I think it would be a really interesting system on both ends if hooks behaved like that- it would help reduce camping on the Survivor's end, and help reduce hook bombing in your face on Killer's End into DH+BT combo.
I think the big issue with it is both how it would hurt some Killers (Like Hag or Trapper, who can get great value without even being there) and the fact that camping is a valid strat in quite a few scenarios. (And I'd hope for the sake of all Killers, if this was ever implemented, it would not be functional in EGC.)
There's also kinda the issue that it is a bit unfair as Killer to have all of your map pressure possibly be taken away from you immediately because Survivors got a decent hook spawn near a teammate, and got insta-saved. At least with hook bombs currently you can force some resources out of the Survivors to punish it, and gurantees some pressure on both Survivors, so they're not both back on gens immediately.
Idk, I think it's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't mind the Devs playing around with the concept either internally or on a PTB (you know, one that's actually for testing, or is something like the Experiment Card from OW where it's just wild things they're playing around with internally that might not come to live on a PTB.) But I feel like they payoff wouldn't be enough for hooks, and it would make it harder on killer then it already is.)
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The cages are quite useful if you know how/when to use them. PH can already negate the carrying part of this too and gets a free Mori so it's not like his power would be pointless.
Killers would have knowledge of where the hooked survivor is... It's where you're not. Say you down someone part of a group working on a gen, that person is now on the other side of the map and people have to run all the way back over there to go and get them.
This would also prevent people from unhooking right in your face too. Say you're chasing someone and they run to the hook during the chase. You just denied them the unhook, likely downed them, and now forced people to redirect their attention to another part of the map if they want to rescue the hooked survivor.
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I like the idea on paper, but there's so much they'd have to change or refine that I doubt it'd ever work. Or that BHVR would ever seriously even attempt to implement it, since it goes against what they've already said on the matter. There's probably so much code focused around a mechanic as old as the hooks that changing them this drastically could ######### up a lot.
How would BBQ work? How would any other perks that focus on hooks work? Breakdown, Deliverance? This mechanic practically guarantees a safe unhook for every survivor. If a killer hooks someone during EGC and they're not on Deathhook, they lose. There is nothing they can do. And taking away the hook aura is a big loss of information for the killer.
As much as I hate camping, I don't think this is the way to address it. They just need to implement more risk to camping for the killer, and more ways for survivors to counter it at base. Not an overhaul of an old (if flawed) core game mechanic.
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The problem is just completely removes a killer's ability to pressure hooks which is important. Like I get camping is not fun to play against, but a killer who hooks a survivor between 3 or 4 gens has little reason to leave that area and is exerting ton of pressure on the survivors by the exist of that hook.
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BBQ, Breakdown and Deliverance would work exactly the same as they do now.
If the killer hooks someone during EGC, chances are, that survivor is now teleported to the opposite side of an exit gate since most EGC hooks happen right in front of the gate. This would prevent people using BT during EGC. Something that I would personally love as Killer.
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Go back up and read the edit for this explanation. It's better for pressure than you think.
Imagine what you could do with a 3 gen strat with this!
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By sending the survivor far away from your 3 gen so you can't protect both...
I don't think you get how important it is that killers can defend both hooks and gens.
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A 3 gen is the only time caging is good with pyramid head, his cages actively hurt him if you are caging early and mid. Which is exactly why I am against this change, this is a nerf to killers early and mid game(where they are already at the weakest point) and a buff to their late game(which killers don't need. If you are in a 3 gen situation odds are you are in a very strong place)
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Literally forcing people away from your 3 gen... is now bad? You can't be serious.
Feel free to read the other replies in this post for why this would work quite well in early/mid game.
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I had a game back on old Disturbed Ward I only won, because I was able to hook a survivor deep inside a 3 gen situation and could prevent both the unhook and gens from being progressed. Also this was my first hook that game, but that survivor died on their first hook while no other gen was able to get done.
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The big problem with the cages is that PH does not have much control over it. Like, you can estimate where the Cage will spawn, you might even know if Survivors would be nearby.
While teleporting the Survivor to a random Hook would fix camping, it would also remove a lot of Control from the Killer, like hooking the Survivor in an area without Gens or without Pallets is an advantage, but with that idea, it might happen that the Survivor spawns right next to another Survivor, which drastically reduces the Map Pressure gained by the Hook (aka forcing Survivors into altruistic actions).
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BBQ and Breakdown, sounds good. Deliverance still worries me. And for the survivor hooked during EGC, it theoretically could put a survivor deeper into the map when they were about to escape. That could be interesting, but I could see it being infuriating for the survivors. Or, a survivor gets hooked in away from a door and they get hook teleported to a door. That's just RNG, with no way to counter it. It's just getting lucky.
The biggest problem I'm finding is this idea completely removes any kind of pressure the killer could have with hooks. That pressure isn't always fun, but important in a game like this. It removes interaction and makes hooking almost a lose-lose. Hooking is good for pressure, this removes pressure completely. I think slugging would become way more prevalent in an mechanic like this, because killers have less incentive to hook them before. Hooking herds survivors where the killer wants.
Would this be more fun, at least for survivors? Probably. Solo Survivors definitely need love, but I think it's far from balanced in the initial idea. I'd be more inclined to have this be a punishment for hard camping (when other Survivors aren't already there, attempting an unhook.)
That's just my opinion, anyways.
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Not that I agree with this change, but what about during EGC, when a killer basically had to camp? They'reguarding away when th surv magically teleports across the map, prolly to the other opened door with some hands to quickly free them...
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Very good point. Maybe the mechanism could deactivate with EGC?
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not exactly. its still good due to his cage negating hook perks and it doesnt take away the main reason it makes the ability good, the ability to send someone to a cage immediately after downing someone and continue to chase and apply pressure onto someone else. Pyramid Heads cage will still stand out and be unique.
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No actually, the difference is that pyramid head can cage survivors who are downed whenever he wants, what you are suggesting would make it work every time you hook a survivor as any killer. He also has the benefit of disabling any unhooking perks for survivors and can do this in 3 seconds.
What's funny is that even without his cages, p head would not be the weakest killer in the game.
Also, hooking someone that isn't on death hook isn't supposed to be a free kill
So what was the point of this comment exactly?
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PH cannot cage survivors whenever he wants. They must be tormented.
The disabling of unhooking perks is largely seen as broken by the community and frowned upon.
If you're now saying that PH wouldn't be the weakest killer, then surely this hook change wouldn't be bad for killers.
The point of the "not a free kill" comment was due to you acting as if you're supposed to always get kills on first/second hook.
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Well obviously they have to be tormented first, but afterwards they can't really get rid of it.
The disabling of unhooking perks is not broken and is frowned upon only by people who don't understand how to play against this killer very well.
Just because Pyramid head would not be the weakest does not even mean in the slightest that other killers would be fine.
And just how was I acting like I am always supposed to get kills on the first second hook? I was implying how little pressure killers would get from hooking survivors in your idea.
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Having your perks just completely disabled through no fault of your own doesn't mean you don't understand how to play.
You're going back and forth now. First you said he'd be weak without his cages. Now he'd be strong. Now he'd be strong but everyone else would be weak. Pick one.
What you said was "Survivors could just go in the general area of where the hooked survivor would appear and almost instantly save." What's wrong with saving someone instead of letting them go through hook states? Are survivors not allowed to save people anymore?
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What I meant by people not knowing how to play against him, and anyone who complains about him disabling unhooking perks doesn't really know how to play against him. If you do, then you realize how this isn't nearly as bad. All you have to do is go for a safe rescue.
I said killers in general would be weaker with this, I said pyramid head would not be the weakest even without his cages.
My statement about how survivors could go for really quick to instantaneous saves, I meant that the killer would get very little pressure, it doesn't make sense. I fail to understand how you got the idea that I don't want survivors to save people anymore, I merely said that it would be detrimental to killers as a whole.
Actually now that I think of it, since the motivation for this idea was to prevent unhooking in front of your face (favorable to the killer btw) this whole idea would really suck for killers. It would make splitting up on gens even more powerful because now the killer can't choose where to hook survivors, they would always spawn far away which is most likely close to another survivor (solo) on a gen. The survivor could then save the hooked guy, and then immediately heal or split up, all while the other two survivors are on gens.
This whole idea you have here is a nerf to all killers while also making pyramid head less unique.
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Except it wouldn't work early game. Let's pretend you could cage any survivor at any point, are you telling me you would cage on your first and second downs every time?
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This is straight up a bad idea.
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What brilliant insight with such thought out reasoning.
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I'll give a variety of reasons
-Killers are in the defensive position of the game and this makes their defensive nature much more impossible to do.
-this definetly hurts much more than helps Killers. At best this doesn't decrease number of killer players in game but most likely we will get even less people to play killer since they will inevitably get frustrated that the survivors got an rng blessing of a free unhook.
- perks like BT(new one) would be a mess. Having people get unhooked on random parts of map with essentially invincibility would be frustrating
- a number of perks would actually be harmful for survivors to use (like babysitter).
- defence at the end would be literally impossible. Have 3 survivors left, hook 1 they get sent who knows where and then the gates are being opened. Unless you are right by the gate they will likely all get out.
- killers will have to hook more for sure. If killers don't know where their hooks are being sent and killers can't defend the hooks,, survivors will have never have to worry about progressing a stage with hooks unless they just quit.
- this further weakens already very weak setup (outside of hag) and stealth killers.
- this would encourage killers to slug more. Killers would rather know where their prey is then send them somewhere else. Hooking would be less advantageous
-even in your example a killer would rather have survivors by each other hooked than send both away to who knows where
-deve have repeatedly said that camping is a valid strategy and they have no intention of removing it which this would clearly do
In short this would break the game. Killers wouldn't want this and this would make killer even way harder than it already is often times. It makes no sense to make changes that would motivate killers to not play that role anymore since the game lacks killer players
Those are just some of my initial thoughts.
Post edited by IWasLeft2Die on0
