Do you think SBMM will fix the most major flaw of the game?
Matchmaking.
I still think ranks should just be removed altogether.
This is a party game.People need to not take it so seriously.
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Players do not feel the same way as you do about this just being a party game. I really like their rank reset ideas they put out (reset to R20 and bloodpoint rewards) but they need to loosen matchmaking on the SBMM because it is truly terrible how long the queues got for the ‘high MMR’ players.
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Yes, let's remove ranks and 4 red-ranked SWF survivors to have an equal chance to be matched with those casual rank 19 killer with 11 hours in DBD, and with a rank 1 killer with 2k hours.
It will be a party alright, the rank 19 killer will just pull a Cartman saying "@#$& you guys, I'm going home", and rightfully so because there is nothing fun about matches like that.
It is akin to showing auditions of people who can't actually sing on TV for those reality shows, or putting a fat person in a race just so the audience can laugh at them and feel superior.
If you want to make this a party game, here's a better suggestion: make some actual friends and then just play together, and eventually your ranks will stabilize within a certain range on its own, and the system will match you accordingly.
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I think there should be two modes. Ranked mode and casual. Casual should include everyone on comms. Competitive should be basically what we have now.
Yeah, it will split the player base. I'd rather wait a bit longer for games I enjoy as opposed to having to sweat hard for 1ks at red ranks.
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The biggest flaw of the game is that hit detection and validation were designed around and based off of P2P connections, and live servers have caused a mess of bad looking hits regardless of the role played, so no, I don't think any matchmaking changes will fix that.
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I think SBMM will help make solo queue a bit more bearable as your teammates will less likely be useless.
But I think it will just expose how strong survivors are when you get 4 good survivors together which is a rarity in current matchmaking outside of SWF.
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I'd like to see the matchmaking in this game totally randomized for just one day. Just one day - chaos reigns - and we get to see just how ######### up things can get. It would be an interesting social experiment. Might also actually lead to some good ideas for how to come up with a better system. But mainly it would be hilarious.
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Although sbmm by nature will be hell for the higher mmr players. Someone like dowsey otz or tru3 will face tourney teams more often as they have pretty much beaten off the other like 90% according to sbmm. I feel itll make matches fairly boring for the very skilled players. Obviously that doesnt impact the other 99% though.
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i feel like it’ll kill the game for higher skilled killers and survivors
going against Spirit/nurse every game with omega slowdown will be very unfun. same with a quad of ds/unbreakable/dh/adrenaline sweating their ass off
the emblem system could work if they at least tried to make it work imo
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MMR is going to do one of 2 things, and it entirely depends on how the devs react to it.
It is pretty clear to anyone who has played this game for a long period of time. That if you were to take the 4 best survivor players in the world, and pit them against the best killer player in the world for each killer. The only one who stands a chance is Nurse, and MAYBE spirit. The reason for this is simple. The game was made with the idea that it is a "hide and seek" game, where survivors don't want to be found. Then it became apparent how strong looping was in this game with all of the infinites. Since then, there are no more infinites, but basic math will tell you that survivors can waste far too much of a killer's time allowing all the gens to get done. Literally by just holding W and running in the opposite direction. No pallets, no windows, no looping, no nothing. A survivor can waste 46 seconds of a killer's time assuming the killer doesn't have a power that can counter holding W, like spirit or nurse. Now when you factor in optimal looping and pallet usage, it becomes extremely difficult. The survivors can just waste too much time.
Against solo queue survivors, the game is tilted too far in the favor of the killer. If survivors DON'T play optimally, they are going to lose most of the time. We all have experienced it, the guy self caring in the corner of the map. The people urban evading when the killer is on the opposite side of the map in a chase, the survivors who just waste shack pallet immediately. Most Survivors typically don't play efficiently, and they play more "immersed" and are "afraid" of the killer, so they tend to try and hide, and not repair generators as much as they could because they are worried the killer might show up. They often hide until they know the killer is chasing someone else, wasting precious seconds in the early game that are so crucial to winning.
The average player, killers are too strong.
The highest level play, survivors are too strong, especially SWF.
The dev's red rank stats prove that its not even a red rank vs others thing. In red ranks, nurse is the lowest kill rate killer in the game. It is pretty clear, red ranks don't really mean anything.
Now, because the devs are very data focused, we can assume one of the following 3 things about how the devs are looking at this problem.
1) The devs know this is a problem, and don't care
2) The devs know this is a problem, and don't know how to fix it
3) The devs don't know this problem exists.
Now let's imagine a world where MMR becomes a thing. When it happens, you will see a few things happen. Matches will get more fun and balanced for everyone on average, for a while. However, because MMR is tied to killer, the top level survivors will only ever go against nurse and spirit every single game since they are the only ones who can compete at that MMR. Eventually those players start to get bored of the game, and will quit. Then, as the number of high level survivors dwindles, queue times get longer, and in order to match people, lower level survivors get matched with those top level nurse and spirit mains. Given that those survivors already are brushing that line where killers are OP for them, they won't be able to handle it. And eventually it will spiral out of control.
Now, when MMR happens, they will be able to see from the data that only nurse and spirit are able to compete at high MMR, they will have data that proves this. Additionally, they will have data that proves that the average survivor can't handle most killers, this comes back to the 3 points i mentioned before.
1) If the devs know this is a problem, and don't care, then the data will show there is a problem and they won't be able to ignore it. If they continue to ignore the data, then they go back on their ideas and methods of using data to make decisions. Because the data is showing them a clear problem, and ignoring it and doing nothing, would be extremely hypocritical. Eventually people will catch on, and it will cause some problems. If they don't ignore it, then they start fixing the problem, and the game gets much better for every one.
2) If the devs know this is a problem, and don't know how to fix it, they will now have more granular data that will allow them to better see what exactly is going on. They might start being able to identify these top players and ask them what they feel the problems are. The hope there, is that with MMR it will allow them to better see the discrepancies between the levels. They will see what solo average survivors are doing wrong, and be able to make changes to that. They will be able to see what high level SWF tryhard survivors are doing and nerf those aspects that make them too strong. Hopefully leading to a better game.
3) If the devs don't know the problem exists, the data will now make it clear that the problem exists and they can start working on fixing it.
The reality is, depending on the reason this problem has existed for so long, that will dictate what the result of MMR will be and what their attitudes toward it will be.
Personally, i am optimistic that it will ultimately make this game much better. The devs will either, finally see the problem, figure out how to solve the problem, or stop ignoring the problem, and will finally fix things. That is my personal prediction.
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It will fix Survivor matchmaking; better solo teams and pairing for 2-3man swf. We will all see far better quality in teammates.
I don't anticipate any improvement for killer, if anything things will get worse. If que times still force improper matches than killers will be facing higher skilled Survivors while also increasing the overall difficulty each match. I don't see this helping newer killers to stick around.
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MMR won't fix anything fast it'll be a step in the right direction but there's still bad hits on both sides you see them alot of the the time mostly huntress and Head on tho. So to be honest I think the whole game needs a complete overhaul it was ok to be cheaply made when it first started out but spaghetti code is awful when you have such a large player base and no constant updates to keep it all in place.
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SBMM will kill this game
Sorry but i don't wanna verse good survivors 24/7 that can instantly read all my mindgames,
it'll make 50 wins ina row Impossible, for Otz even,
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nope SBMM is gonna be a pain in the ass. It will become the games biggest flaw
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People are all different, some take games seriously, other don't. Don't try to force other people to think about Dbd like you.
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So you want to go against lower skilled survivors who you can stomp on?
I don't think those lower skilled survivors want to go against higher skilled killers.
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80% of red ranks survivors are boosted.
the other 20% are decent / actual good survivors that don't go down within 5 seconds of being hit,
Just make it harder for survivor to rank up so it MEANS something,
Not this bs SBMM,
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That wasn't exactly the point they were making basically what he's saying is he doesn't want to face the best of the best every game. Hot Take if there isn't a weak link on a Survivor squad its almost unwinnable when there's a weak link its manageable and can go both ways the issue with MMR is you will face Survivors ONLY your skill level meaning if im really good at the game i will only face really good survivors who know all the counterplay to anything a Killer does and know that gens is there way out. Notice how during MMR people like Hexy were getting stomped unless he straight facecamped lmao.
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It will help tremendously and also expose how horribly balanced the game is at high ranks. RN you get literal potato's survivor side in solo queue so you never get to see this unless you play with good swf players. The only people who don't want SBMM are streamers because they know people don't want to watch an extremely close game where everyone is playing at their best. They want to watch them loop a 20 hour killer for 20 attacks in a row, they want to watch a killer walking backwards the entire game kill all survivors at 5 gens. They want meme games that are memorable.
As an example let's talk about Dowsey(sorry for misspelling) dude was bragging so hard about his twins kills (x amount and no escapes). What happened the moment he played against similar skilled players and not literal whos? a 4 man escape.
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I hated the game when SBMM was active. Killer was almost unwinnable with non-S-tiers. Constant swfs and only thousands of hours players. Playing as survivor felt really easy on the other hand, since everyone could genrush and loop. Without a weak link, it was very survivorsided.
Dbd is a weird game, since its not balanced for high or low skilled people. It has to be a mishmash of all sorts to work out.
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To dowseys defense he got sniped by a tourney team that had been in his chat for like a hour? They knew his perks. Knew what exactly to bring to counter the twins. And its a fricken tourney team so itll be difficult. Dowsey was probably also just done and wanted to get the one game over and be done with it so i doubt he was playing at his best. If dowsey say fought them on even ground where neither of them knew they were facing eachother it mighta played differently. Probably wouldnt have 4kd its twins vs a tourney team but any kills would better than none. Now obviously if sbmm does work that 4k streak will not last very long. That won't be surprising. But just saying that wasnt a normal game.
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first, they already know its a problem. Marth 3 years ago made a depip squad where his entire objective was to find out whether killers on average or survivor are stronger. the result was that he depiped 200 out of 197 killers and only 3 of them black pip. I am guessing that every game was 0-1 hook game if its using current emblem system and if it wasn't, than they must been using that old system that either worked off bloodpoints or the one that worked off kills. either way they know its problem.
It being problem does not matter and SBM will not fix the problem or encourage fixing the problem. What SBM does is reorganize matchmaking pool according to skill. Suppose you have 16000 players in a matchmaking pool and lets imagine this is entire playerbase of DBD(It is not). 12,000 must be survivor and 4000 must be killer and anything else or more would be too much killer or too much survivor. If i had to take a guess, I'd say that killer queues are instant and survivor queues are slower so there is definitely more survivors on average than there is killer.
Statistically, your skill on both survivor and killer is denoted by a percentile graph in statistics. 0th percentile = the worst player in DBD and 100th percentile=the best player in DBD. If emblem system worked correctly, there are 4 ranks so in theory, if the emblem system was perfect denotation of skill, each color would denote 25% of percentile of skill for a survivor. Matchmaking would be as simple as find 1 red rank killer and 4 red rank survivors and the game is balanced(skill-wise). If there shortage of one in either side, like suppose in the most extreme case, a red rank killer faces 4 purple rank survivors, if the killer loses, he would lose an insane high amount of MMR/rank because he is expected to win and the survivor would lose nothing if they lose but gain a lot if they win. Unfortunately emblem system is not a perfect description of skill and I believe they use emblem system to do current matchmaking as it is now and it is the reason why the majority of your killer matches/survivor matches(if your good) are very easy. bottom line, your not getting matched by equal opponents. that is why its so easy.
Ok, so does that mean that rank 20 is same as rank 1? that is 100% FALSE. a rank 20 is NOWHERE near the skill of rank 1. if you think this, your crazy. a bran new player who doesn't know where a gen is, doesn't understand looping or chases in general or any killer is definitely not equal to a player that has moderate understanding of the game. When developers said that "Rank does not matter", it was one of those, "We did pretty good job moments". Rank does matter and emblem system does separate skills, but it does so in a way that is not practical. What the current ranks do is they seperate skill-levels by the LOWEST possible common denominator. In essence, rank 20-15 is equal to 0-15th percentile in the graph and there are no players who are 15th or higher percentile in 20-15 and if there are, the rank system will currently rank you up to be past these ranks. rank 15-10 is say 15-30th, 10-5 let say is 30th to 60th and than we get to red ranks where..... it is like 60th to 100th percentile. You have to understand that suppose I am a 90th percentile killer, If i face a team that has 60th percentile across 4 survivors, this is like a challenger player in league of legends fighting platinum players. you have to understand that if I am playing a killer with full meta build vs these survivors, its like... not even a challenge and they're very certain to lose and this is like the majority of red rank matches for killer if your good at said killer. It is not that the killer is overpowered or anything, it is that your facing such a discrepancy in skill that if i was running no add-on or perks, the match would be closer but still slanted in my favor due to skill difference. we're both red ranks but we do not play at the same-level.
what this means is that there are levels within the ranks themselves. you could think of it like bronze-red rank, silver-red rank and gold-red rank and let say that bronze is 60-70, silver is 70 to 90 and gold is 90 to 100. this exists in all ranks. There is just huge range of skill within same rank from emblem system. The reason why there are so many red ranks in red ranks but do not belong in red ranks is because threshold to get to red ranks is low enough that most people can get to it but not everyone has same skills within red ranks. This has everything to do with it being easy to win but not so easy to lose pips assuming your threshold of skill reaches a certain percentile. Basically, as long as you win more than lose, than your better than the percentile your in so you will eventually hit red ranks whether you like it or not through playtime. Its hard to track for how good you are, but the faster you get to rank 1 on average is how good you are compare to your competitors.
What SBM will do is it will take all red ranks and it will pair the best killers with the best survivors(on average) until it runs out. The leftovers for killer or survivor will be face lower skill players which means the matches will be imbalanced but they should theoretically never be landslides and losing/winning in these matches will not give or lose much MMR. I am unsure how they will base MMR and how the skill will be calculated. If you ask me, the better players are the players that make few mistakes, Its like chess, if you never make wrong moves like an engine, than you'll never lose but we're all human so everyone makes mistakes, the one that makes fewest mistakes is the better player. so In my opinion, the survivor team that completes most possible gens(or all of them), takes fewest amount of hits overall and suffers least amount of hook states will be the team that survives the most and will escape more often than a team fails to achieve these objectives. Its same for killer really. The killer that gets the hits the fastest will get more downs on average. it means they will hook faster, kill faster and win faster in a more consistent manner.
Personally, I find this system extremely convoluted and if I was designing a ranking system, this emblem system would definitely not be it. I am not going to go in detail to why you will not face Spirit/Nurse every game as survivor but just note that if your playing a weaker killer, you will likely be a lower SBM on that killer than you will be on strong killer unless your exceptional.
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I disagree. While I do think the sbmm should be somewhat loose, the high MMR players are the ones that make everyone else quit, whether we like it or not. I'd prefer for the matchmaking times to gently nudge people into being less sweaty.
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Just because it's not an e sports game it doesn't mean it shouldn't try to be better, thinking otherwise is either bias because you like the balance sway which is way into survivor still..or you simply don't understand the frustrations playing killer at times
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High mmr players are players too. You shouldn't be discluded from the game because you learned how to play the game.
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I'm one of those players. I had to wait twenty minutes for a Plague trial. I didn't even try playing Blight, who I was maining during the last test, and my survivor ques... Didn't change much at all, to be honest. Still 20-30 minute wait times.
When players like that go against unprepared teams, it's a massacre. It's a driving factor for why so many don't stick around. And a loose MMR system would force those sorts of interactions and negatively impact the playerbase. So, it's either chill and de-mmr (like deranking but the moment you try to bully anyone you shoot straight back up), or stick with long ques.
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If there are players available to play the game, they should be matched. If there was a massive influx of player base with a perfect mixture of high and low, then this dream could happen. For now: high MMR killers should be matched against the highest MMR survivors available. Same for lowest.
I have seen both attempts by the developers. Slower queues for better matchmaking. Faster queues with looser matchmaking.
Being able to play the game was always the better outcome.
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People should never be matched with players outside of their preparedness level. That's the biggest issue with matchmaking right now, and the biggest driver for all the "X OP" threads and people quitting.
There is no point to changing anything about the matchmaking if nothing is going to change.
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That’s assuming long queues isn’t a driver for disgruntled players too. But despite this talk, DBD has had a steady playerbase period.
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The difference being that the fix to long ques in a working MMR scenario is to take a chill pill and go for 12 hooks or do literally anything that isn't the gens. The fix to not getting demolished by sweaty players is to quit the game and never return.
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The playerbase shouldn’t have to compensate for an MMR with this large of an error.
Theres also many players who just play and do not discuss the game. They wouldn’t know about the prescription to drag out matches.
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Given that high MMR players are a minority of the playerbase, it's not that big a deal. And given that the issue has nothing to do with MMR and everything to do with sweaty players, it's even less of an issue.
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good post. I however feel there is a 4th option.
4) The devs are aware, they don't care and are more concerned with cranking out chapters to keep the game going a bit longer.
Literally the last 2 killers were garbage. The PTB even showed this and they launched them anyway. I have no hope for the RE chapter just because it's licensed and their new game just came out. This feels too much like they are hoping on the band wagon to rake in some cash while the game is popular. The problems with the game have been around for a long time. Yet instead of fixing these issues they keep announcing new content. While I agree a game needs new content to keep people interested. This game is LONG overdue for a health chapter that never comes. The devs release a new chapter that is broken at launch, people buy it anyway and it gives off the impression the game is doing well. At least for 2 weeks when people realize how the latest chapter introduced more bugs.
I feel the way the devs have been handling the issues with MM this game flat lined a long time ago but it's being momentarily resuscitated by dlc. It's like a hospital patient lost an arm in an accident. Instead of closing the wound, which is what should be done. The doctor is focusing all their efforts on pumping blood into the patient to keep them alive. Completely neglecting the fact the blood is exiting the body as fast as it goes in. In this case the patient is a metaphor for the game. The severed arm is all the glaring issues with the game. The doc is the devs and the blood keeping it alive is half baked chapters.
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Fix most major flaw maybe not, but is a step in the right direrction, at least with the MMR I'll play my low tier least played and equiped killers and try a variety of builds with them without losing most of the trials and in a more relaxed way.
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Pfft, SWF get matched with rank 19s regardless.
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Emblems are not a very good system to begin with tho.Even if they made it work as it should.
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How am i forcing anyone?
Uh....Please elaborate.
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Not a chance.
They have shown time and time again that they just can't make it work.
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I will probably not have a good time with MMR.
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