http://dbd.game/killswitch
legion isnt really in a good spot, how would you fix him
I don't really play this killer all too much cuz IMO he/she is kinda boring. It's just running and stabbing.
since I don't really play him /her too much how would you buff, would you give him a new ability like Scott junds idea to make him more like he was was in his trailer( also one other thing I don't like about him he was a clickbait killer) or just straight-up buff him.
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Scrap his power and start over.
Legion can never be balanced in his current state.
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i wouldnt be as drastic as @Pulsar above, but i too think their current power doesnt really work too good.
however, instead of completely reworking them, i'd prefer to instead add a secondary ability to their current power.
what if Legion was able to take off their mask (like they did in the trailer) to surpress their Terror Radius, Red Stain and mimic Survivor movements?
attacking however is only possible after putting on their mask again, which would ofc take some time to do.
that way they would have a power that quickly allows to injure people to then go into hiding and plan an ambush on them.
it would also be different enough to other stealth killers we have to still be unique (Wraith is invisible, speedy and gets a boost after uncloaking, Myers can stalk to power himself up and go on a rampage with base stat boosts and Ghostface can expose individuals and attack straight out of his stealth)
additionally to that, it would finally please all those who wanted a werewolf killer
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I want Scott's vision of seeing a Claudette run up to you... and then pulls out a knife.
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Reduce fatigue out of FF by 1 second and apply Deafened on the Deep Wounds status effect.
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Not just scrap his power scrap Legions entire design and start over...... An edgy teen in a white mask how....scary.....?
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rework him
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I'd allow Legion to rapid fire spam his knife while in Frenzy like he did at release, but each time he does that he gets a speed boost and white lines on the outside of his vision to obscure the field of view and have difficulty turning. Player must manually cancel out of the ability for it to end.
Successful hit on a survivor causes deep wounds and activates killer instinct as per usual.
So in THEORY Legion could make a mad dash across the map by slashing a lot but would be about as difficult to avoid as a Hillbilly chainsaw with far less lethality.
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DBD isn't a horror game.
Their power doesn't work.
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They need to do something that makes the Deep Wound status effect an actual threat without making it broken/exploitable at the same time.
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The primary issue with Legion is that they get passively affected by changes made to the Deep Wound mechanic. This is because the developers made the Legion’s unique mechanic a baseline mechanic for Survivor perks, and added it to other Killers for no reason - Deathslinger for example. In his case the deep wounds mechanic is kind of fine but it still has no reason to be there.
The developers used the Legion to beta test a Borrowed Time rework. Argue against it but that is exactly what happened, and since Deep Wounds, which is more connected to Survivor abilities (BT, Styptic, Soul Guard) is a core aspect of their power.
Outside of a complete overhaul and redesigning, I would opt to remove Deep Wounds and make Feral Frenzy apply the Incapacitated status effect when a Survivor gets hit in addition to making them Injured, and otherwise remain the same in every other regard. Incapacitated stops them from working on generators and doing a bunch of other actions like healing, sabotage, totems, etc, but does not disable any chase mechanics, which overall lets Legion keep their ability as a slowdown Killer. I’d also remove the power gauge depletion when a Survivor is hit with a basic M1, reduce the cooldown period back to 3s instead of 4s, and increase the recovery speed of the power.
In terms of a total overhaul? How about not falsely advertising and giving Legion a power like what they demonstrate in their trailer - to take off their mask and fake being a Survivor, being able to get close to them and suddenly attacking when they put the mask back on. This would take a whole lot of effort to make and balance appropriately so I doubt anything of the sort would ever happen at all but we could only dream.
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So... what I'd do is split Legion into 2 killers. On the one hand, current Legion does not fit their release trailer, their lore, their anything. However on the other hand, current Legion does have a conceptually cool power that shouldn't be removed.
Frank/Joey would remain similar to current Legion but buffed. Feral Frenzy recharge time reduced to 10 seconds. Feral Frenzy cool down reduced to 1 seconds if it ends more than 16 or so meters away from the nearest Survivor. That way using Frenzy for Mobility kind of actually works. Successful M1 no longer eats part of their power bar and picking someone up mid Frenzy no longer eats their entire power bar.
Julie/Susie take on the power heavily hinted at in the Trailer. Their primary power has the Killer take on a flawless disguise of whichever Survivor is furthest away from them at the time with no TR and no red stain. They cannot attack out of their disguise and take a few seconds to pull on their mask and pull out their knife. The other thing they can do is... essentially both of them are in the trial at the same time. At the start of the trial, you use your alternate power to mark a locker for Susie to be in. If you use your alternate power at a different locker, Julie gets in that locker and Susie gets out of hers in a disguise. Likewise, if you later use your alternate power as Susie, she gets in and Julie gets out wherever you left her. The inactive one of the pair gives Killer instinct on nearby Survivors. As just a QoL, the locker you'd jump to has a white aura at all times and the nearest locker has a yellow aura at all times.
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I made a Rework thread a long time ago. If we can't get a mask-changing rework, I'd like it to be similar to this.
Deep Wounds has to go. It can only be either extremely underpowered or extremely overpowered. It will never be fun for BOTH sides.
- Feral Frenzy now applies the Frenzied Slashes (FS)
Frenzied Slashes is a new status affect. The numbers are purely experimental and are more of a proof of concept than a legitimate attempt to balance it. Please keep that in mind.
- FS applies Hemorrhage and louder grunts until fully healed
- FS applies a 2 second Exhaustion
Hemorrhage is for easier tracking, as are the louder grunts. Two seconds of Exhaustion is designed to regulate the Survivors perk use. This Legion specializes in the chase and stall. Therefore, his strongest point will be in the chase. It is only two seconds because to allow the Survivor to recover Exhaustion if the Legion makes a bad read and to quickly recover it when Legion leaves them alone.
- FS applies a 3% repair debuff and a significant healing speed debuff. The repair speed debuff will remain until the Survivor fully heals. This debuff is unique. If one Survivor has FS, they have a 3% debuff. Hit another? Those two have a 6% debuff. Get all four? They all have a 12% debuff.
The repair debuff is probably too low, however, I don’t want it to be oppressive. Everyone knows gens are very boring. As for the healing speed debuff, this applies only to your self-healing and will slightly slow down your healing of others, think one stack of old Thana. It is NOT the Mangled status effect. You will still be healed at the same rate, unless the other Survivor has also been hit by FS. It is not meant to be oppressive, it is only meant as an incentive to heal. Being injured isn't a huge issue in Dead By Daylight, even in 2021, hence why players need an incentive to heal.
- FS will not down Survivors normally, however, if the Survivor has been hit by FS three times, and has not healed, they will go down. This is not designed to be a common thing, nor will it be efficient at all, as hitting a Survivor twice will still cancel your power. It will have a 3 second stun, similar to a pallet stun. No vision clouding.
- It will have a 30 second recharge and will have a default length of 15 seconds, being extended everytime you hit a Survivor.
FS is meant as a purely stalling power, not to down Survivors normally, therefore, the stun will be reduced.
- FS will recede when the Survivor heals one health state.
This is to discourage slugging early in the game when you need the gen pressure, while still leaving it viable in the late game
- The speed of Legion’s power will remain the same as it is in the 3.4.0 patch.
- Missing an attack will no longer remove your power, it will cancel it, but it will keep the charge it had when you missed.
- Hitting a Survivor with a M1 will no longer drain the power at all.
- Because of stacking issues, FS will not be a basic attack.
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What exactly is "A good spot" to you?
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I actually don't think Legion is that bad. Reduce the fatigue by 1 second. Remove basic attacks draining the power bar. Cut the FF recharge on half. Spirit has an 8 second recharge for a much stronger power. Meanwhile Legion's is 20 seconds for some reason. Doing these things won't make them S tier, but they'd definitely help.
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His whole power forces Survivors to split up and do separate gens.
That's a fundamental design flaw.
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Spirit's recovery is 15. Legion's is 20 (24 if you include the fatigue)
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He eats a longer stun than Nurse does.
Apparently, Legion's power is much more dangerous than Nurse's
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Are you sure? Cause uh...last I checked it is a horror game. And yes I was agreeing their power does not work. Rework the entire of legion. Lore, Design and power.
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When was the last time you were scared?
Even Cote said its action survival.
Nothing about this game has been horror for a long time.
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rework their power completely
as it stands their power will either be way too strong or way too weak, there’s no real way to balance them well
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I must have mixed up her addons. Still, his cooldown is excessive.
Smart survivors will do this anyway.
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Some QoL changes like power not depleting on m1 hits and stuff like that.
Give the oblivious status effect to feral frenzy slashes so people are forced to find a good spot to mend in and make the mending a little more excitting.
Maybe other small buffs like that.
But for the love of god do not completelly overhaul them!
Legion isn't even in that bad of a spot. People just play this information based 1v4 killer as a chase based 1v1 killer
I really don't want another Freddy shebuckle where my main just gets deleted and replaced with a maybe stronger but much more boring character.
If you don't like Legion there are other killers to play. There are people who enjoy playing them the way they are now.
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Legion can't really get much more boring.
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Legions great.
He is a low teir M1 killer thats good for new players but still attracts a small dedicated following of mains, Hence all the really bad legions you run into, but he forces players to learn the game while having a small group of players the are dedicated to maining him because they enjoy basic M1 chases but dont like haveing to hold W after the first normal M1. Give him an addon pass to add some varity by replacing the old addons that dont do anything and the ones that just slow the game down and hes set. Not every killer needs to have a gimmick in there chases. I for one just like the normal chases if you shave off holding W after the first M1 and fix broken maps. Sure he doesn't eliminating the big brain move of holding W but his power does mitigate the issue.
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His power has been a design failure since he launched
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Delete
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increase feral frenzy's movement speed by 5% and reduce the fatigue duration by 0.5 seconds for every unique survivor you stab so if you stab all 4 survivors the legion will be running at 150%/6.0 m/s (the same as wraith and victor) and will have a 2 second fatigue.
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Legion is almost good enough. What he desperately needs is make fun to play.
On this little detail have the devs not thought by the rework. To be fair, they very often think not on it by killer reworks and patches -_-.
For this, stabs in frenzy should do a small amount of real damage and frenzy should also not break after hitting a survivor twice. At least how I see it.
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Then don't play him and let the people who enjoy them enjoy them
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I main him.
That doesn't mean I don't know that he is pretty boring.
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cold dirt basekit,
double his feral duration
increase the time it takes to mend from 12 to 15 seconds
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slightly more ms during the FF
pallet stuns only cancels FF and does not reset it anymore
missing a swing during FF only cancels FF and won't reset it anymore
canceling FF on your own won't reset it anymore
stun duration to 3 from 4
that's all, legion stays legion and it won't make him s tier, but at least it feels less frustrating to play him. I get that you should get punished for missplaying. But it's not like he's on of the top tier killers so he don't such a huge punishment for everything he could possibly do wrong.
And he's the same as Trickster. If you overbuff him he will be unhealthy af for the game and not fun at all. Btw, I feel like Trickster should get changed like Legion did. Change the way his darts are working, adjust some numbers, give him 4.6ms and we're all happy, because we got rid of an very unhealthy killer ability which leaves you with zero realistic counterplay.
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i guess on demos level the buff he got made a decent killer.
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2s stun instead of 4s if you haven\t hit anyone. Buff base speed so you can actually use your ability for mobility
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imo idk about everyone else tho, the legion is a boring killer to play and go against. for killer your power is just stabbing and runing, your power really cant be used in a chase, the most fun thing in this game. for surv the legion just stabs and runs away, even if he is just another M1 killer in the chase if your doing well he can just stab you then run away with the tracking he gets
I'm not saying he is op I'm just saying he is a bit boring for both sides, and the Freddy rework made him better ya removed his uniqueness but people back then didn't like Freddy cuz he was boring with the whole gen speed penalty, and for killer is was probably worse with the whole 7 sec dream transition time
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just by buffing deep wound,like, make it that the timer starts immediately and keeps going even if you're running.
that's all, buff that status(only if applied by legion)
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The thing I don't like about The Legion is that I don't feel like a part of a group, a legion. I feel like I'm playing a single killer with gender options before I start the match.
I wish the devs held off on a killer like this until they have implemented basic AI husks. The power could have been similar to the dude from Apex Legends who sends clones of himself across the field. It would be weird for Legion members to appear from the killer's body, so they would have to add little structures or hiding holes that other Legion husks crawl out of and "fake patrol" towards gens. The survivors wouldn't know whether to ditch the gen or commit.
Or what they could have done, before they had created the perk Dark Devotion, is have the Legion run up on a survivor and put a mask over their head instead of stabbing them. While wearing the mask, their aura reading is disabled, they emit a 32m terror radius, and they appear to be The Legion to other survivors. (Think Pig's Reverse Bear Traps + Dark Devotion)
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If you don't care about others opinion why should others care about yours?
I don't find Legion boring to play. I like their information based playstyle. M1 chases and mindgames are also the most fun part of the game for me and Legion is one of the better m1 killers as after his frenzy one succesfull mindgame is all you need.
They are one of the few killers that focus on the 4v1 left.
Some QoL changes and some small buffs here and there i would be completly behind.
But a rework is not happening. They already spend a lot of time and effort to make Legion workable and now that they're functional and performing well there is zero reason to change that.
And yes they are performing well. Just because some people run themself into fatigue in front of healthy survivors or can't land a m1 without something helping them does not mean they are not playable
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i know you may like him and I'm sure he would be better with some good buffed, I'm not even saying he needs a totally rework I just want him a good spot. plus I just wish this killer was a bit more unique his power is just running and stabbing no real uniqueness to it.
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Simple by deleting them... Nobody would miss 4 healing simulators lol
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I mean you can break down everyone's power like that.
Billy is just running fast with a chainsaw.
Spirit/wraith is just running fast while invisible
Ghostface is just looking at people with no terror radius.
The uniqueness comes from their tracking. hitting a Laurie in frenzy that reveals 2 killer instincts where you know one of them is the david you just saw means that the other one is the claudette that is on deathhook and with the lack of the 4th one means that the adam is on one of the gens outside of your terror radius that had little to no progress last time i saw them. I can quickly go to claudette finish her off and be back to the gen adam is working on without having to worry about the laura finishing a gen in the meantime cause she has to mend.
That's the sort of mind gymnastics a good Legion player goes through whenever they hit a frenzy. That most people just run, stab, fatigue, chase repeat with them is not the fault of the killer. That's like saying Billy is boring to play while just using chainsaw for mobility, only using m1 and completly disregarding curving in loops.
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I suppose your right with the killer side of thing with being able to track but going against a legion isn't as fun. like I said he is just a regular killer when you're in a chase with him while injured, no really gimmicks like other killers. . plus if you are just injured he can just stab and run away. Not the best experiences
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interesting.
if you dont mind, before i give you my opinion on it, i'd like to ask two questions:
1) how exactly does Feral Frenzy work now? am i right to assume that the Legion are going to keep their current increased movementspeed, Killerinstinct of non affected Survivors and fastvaulting of Pallets and Windows and the only change to it is the replacement of the Deep Wound mechanic with the Feral Slashes?
2) do the repair speed debuffs stack with other debuffs applied from Perks (such as Dying Light)?
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Works the same power wise.
It does not stack with other slowdown, it's meant as an incentive, not as a way to stall the game.
I made this about 2 years ago, when I still thought Legion could be salvaged in his current state
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Going against a good legion is one of the better killers to run against because if you go down it will probley be down to your own mistakes or they just outplay you since their kit cant down an injured survivor.
If he isent fun because he cant commit to a chase that's just because his kit will not get value then that just means by not getting a quick down he lost the chase. He cant commit for 5000 years because he needs to take advantage of his kit injuring suvs by downing fast.
A good legion is better to face than a good portion of the killers in the game it's just that people don't understand what are his strengths and weaknesses actully are and what you need to respect about good legion if you want to win against them. Their apparent bland design hides some nuances in his kit in how you face him eg
-Its incredibly hard to claw back games against a legion once games start to go in their favor so you need to respect them from the offset. This is why Ruin is borderline a must pick perk for him.
-They can locate anyone at anytime so even if he isent great at tunneling because you can feed them pallets if legion get some hooks and snowball early it's likely someone will be taken out the game early and they win off that.
But he is still a M1 killer and every survivor can just simply, not make silly plays that give them anything for free early and just Run them better his counters very simple in that sense and it's why I think he has one of the best designs in the game even if I would like more killers to have a slightly higher power floor.
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the simples way ot fix this problem is to delete them
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Their power can't down effectively, making them a basic m1 killer without any ability outside of a regular chase to get downs. If you allow fera frenzy to down people, they become the most broken killer in the game.
The entire power needs to be reworked to do something else entirely. Something like having 3 of the legion members patrolling while you chase, giving you the option to switch into them on a cooldown, would be a neat effect.
You could use this as well, playing as Frank, you corral someone into an area you see Suzie, and switch to Suzie to try to down them. Patrolling killers would have a white stain and perhaps a significantly reduced terror radius.
As a survivor you might see Suzie wandering around near a gen you're working on, and you'd have to keep an eye on her as well as look out for an approaching actual legion member.
Give them a base cooldown of say, 45 seconds between switching members.
Addons could do things like give a short exposed effect when in the terror radius after switching, reduce cooldown, or effects like "You're notified when a survivor is within 16 meters of one of the legion members.".
And each member's costume could be customized with whatever you own as a reason to sell more legion cosmetics.
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Make it so when he uses his power the first time, he changes into a survivor that has normal running speed for a very long extended time then clicks his power again to switch to Frenzy but Frenzy is reduced by .2 charges a second faster. This way he can get close to either Frenzy or do a normal health state of damage depending on the situation. It would be a better way of doing it than the current one so he can choose to do normal damage or a frenzy for multiple hits.
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Legion should just be turned into a group of survivors at this point.
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-Stop punishing the Legion for getting successful M1's by removing part of their power.
-Either lower the stun duration to be the same as that of the Nurse or buff Joey's Mix Tape and Cold Dirt to compensate for how much of a punishment it is to end frenzy.
-Increase the base duration of Feral Frenzy with the trade-off that the add-ons that increase its duration are lowered. They are far too heavily dependent on these add-ons in order to function. (I say this as a rank 1 killer that uses no add-ons on Legion; too often do you get no value from their power)
-Make the Killer Instinct range add-ons do something actually useful (it gives too vague information to be helpful and anything out of TR range is going to take to long to reach...and you can't even tell how far off a survivor is in this mode) such as slightly increasing vault speed in FF, for example.
-Not technically a change specifically to Legion, but the effects of Deep Wounds need to be toned down. They're obnoxious, especially when you consider that in chase, a good survivor will have to stand in place on certain loops, etc, so it ticks down and becomes almost impossible to see even where they're going at times.
Honestly, I'm not sure much else is necessary. These are quite a few changes, but it would finally make the killer not feel clunky and wouldn't break the game, but allow them to be much more viable against decent teams. Really, it's pretty much the Demogorgon mid-chapter treatment that we just saw.
I hope a dev sees these types of suggestions ASAP, tbh. I love Legion and want them to be better.
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