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Otz vs Zubat 1on1 just shows...
...how a good survivor on a favourable map can run even a good killer for basically a whole game. He wasn't even using Dead hard. Sure the map is generally in survivors favour and he had some good setups but still, there is really not much you can do than holding w and break pallet after pallet, because the classic mindgames don't work very well when survivors play it safe.
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This all comes down to map rng. Imagine if he was on shelter woods with 5 T and L walls (Yes this happened to me)
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I mean.. .. should killers be able to hardcore tunnel vision and still 4k?
Sure some map rng can be super dumb, but this video isn't a typical chase scenario.
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Damn Zubat needs a haircut asap, last time I was in his stream my dude had short hair.
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In other news, Cowshed is a disgustingly unbalanced map and always has been.
This is why it’s so important for new killer players to learn not to overcommit to one survivor. There are 4 survivors and the key is to get them when they’re out of position or push them towards an area that’s already been cleared. You don’t just chase one person around the map breaking every pallet they drop safely and expect to win. 1v1s aren’t how the game is played.
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Also shows how playing it safe, pre dropping pallets and holding W can be very devastating vs M1 killers early game, basically most of my pig matches in red ranks are similar to this haha.
Even if you get rid of many pallets and turn half of the map into deadzone, so what? You lose so much time and gens that you won't be able to recover from
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I can show you a million videos where 1v1 against a Nurse, on any map, will end up with the survivor dead in 5 seconds. Does that mean the Nurse needs to be gutted? No, because a real game isn't straight up a 1 v 1, there's so much more going on.
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Idk about that
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This isn’t an accurate video depicting a normal chase, so making assertions about balance based off of this video is stupid.
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You're right and no good killer plays like that. But finding someone outpositioned can also be hard in some matches. I still think that 3-4 minutes is a bit harsh for one tunneled down. Playing it safe is just very powerful and can completely deny your pressure.
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Nurse has a high skill floor. Requires acute muscle memory and forethought. As well as amazing reaction time. What does holding w and predropping pallets require? And survivors can loop for very long amounts of time on most maps as the loops normally favour survivors. I mean i can win matches by just w and predrop as long as the killer doesnt counter it.
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3-4 minutes is a long time for a down, but a) this is the most survivor-sided map, b) Zubat is a better survivor than like 99.9% of the player base, c) there was no external pressure at all - nobody else was doing gens, there was no concern for whether or not to drop a pallet or take a hit and conserve it for later, etc.
In a normal game you consider where and when to chase, and there are other things pressuring both sides. It’s not like Zubat had to avoid running the killer in a particular area cause of teammates doing gens there or someone hanging on the hook, for example. Or worry about creating dead zones for his teammates.
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Are any of them directly chained?
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fracture cowshed is 2nd most busted map for survivor. I think zubat said this at the end but he actually could lasted longer. he didn't go to cowshed that has a god window until you break the breakable wall and there are plenty more pallets behind the barn, in front, to left of it, there is also jungle gym that usually spawns moving left of the barn, a pallet to top-right and all these pallets are safe(all M1 killers will never get a hit) if the survivor plays it perfectly. I'd say you can run cowshed for about 5 minutes straight on average in your first chase.
you know what's hilarious though? they don't balance for high-level. instead they balance for what Dowsey survivor-level. most of the survivors could barely run a killer for 30-60 seconds. why do they balance for this? No clue.
Its not like this on every map but a good chunk of the maps are minimum 3 minute+ that are full of safe pallets.+holding W. its why you need to learn to break off chases and utilize deadzones to cut your chase time vs better survivor players.
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That's absolutely always how bad m1 killers were, map doesn't even matter, vs any good survivors the usual outcome for m1 killers is 1 to 2 hooks at most with 3 man out and leaving 1 to die to noed.
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Nope they were all on separate corners.
It was a doctor too :(
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There's a few things to consider here, Otz was on a killer without a chase power or a 1 shot ability, using any other Killer Otz would have a better chance. Imagine Otz is playing Demo, that shack portion of the chase would be different. If Otz was playing Freddy, etc...
I won't deny i absolutly hate the Map Design but in this particular case of Otz's Trapper vs Zub i can't really fault the Map Design as much as i can fault the Killer for being incapable of doing anything. Trapper needs a serious update to bring him up in terms of killer capacity.
I'd like to see him get new kinds of traps, barb wire, Trips lines, and whatever else. Using just bear traps is a very minimal power that only works if survivors allow it to. They should really put the Trapper aspect in Trapper, most survivors know how to avoid Traps because they're not that easy to hide and the Killer can't place manny and constantly has to shift them around. If Trapper could use different traps to cover more ground it would give Trapper more room to chase and more areas where he can control and would make it more unpredictable for survivors, it would be a whole new learning experience for both sides.
The fact that not all killers work on all maps is both balanced and unbalanced, it's balanced cause the killer power has to be a fixed thing so it will work better or worse depending on the environment and it's unbalanced because you have no way to prepare for any map, you just have to hope there's no offerings for something you know it's not good for you and you have to hope that RNG won't screw you even in the most favourable maps. Wich is why manny people only play a couple Killers, they prefer to be good with 1 or 2 killers than knowing how to tackle each thing with each killer.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. – Bruce Lee
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to be fair, Otz also messed up in the beginning and tried to mindgame shack against him (and it didnt work, yet he kept trying. he even stated it at the end of the video)
also, this doesnt really show a real game because if there were other people a good killer wouldnt chase a survivor for that long (or just chase a good survivor so early, if at all)
oh and, he was playing trapper with no traps on cowshed, zubat was bound to have a really good chase
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Here's what you don't understand, you have a survivor versus killer scenario where:
- The killer isn't using their power
- The survivor is free to use every pallet since they don't have to conserve some for their teammates
- Tile RNG plays a factor during chases
- You don't have to worry about interrupting your teammates doing generators, healing, and etc
If I was playing for chase time, of course I would waste every single pallet, but as a survivor player, I have to think about my teammates. The game is different when you're playing it as a 1 versus 1 scenario.
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Oof you wound me. But it was a doc who your not meant to loop for prolonged periods of time. Also he did have docs best anti loop addon combination. And even then i lasted 70 seconds. Coulda lasted longer if i went to the pallet besides the big building instead of running straight to the building. Also the fake left into vault. Personally i thought it was fun though i had a blast. Please don't make fun of anyone else who participated we were all doing it in good fun and im sure they are all good people.
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Aww. Chained LT tiles might be my personal favourite broken combo.
Although, barring the fact that it was a doctor, a bunch of LT's are much better than a bunch of 4-walls or those long wall/short walls that you have to camp these days. They are able to be used more than once, after all, even if that once doesn't waste quite as much time.
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Otz scares me very badly 😭
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Exactly! A normal chase would contain DH and a medkit.
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There are so many things about this video...
This was a challenge by Otz who could run him the longest right?
And the conditions where "No Perks" and "No Powers" for both sides. So this is pretty much a model of how a M1 Chase would go without anything added to it. It is not a general statment about how Survivors are better or Killers are worse, because that was just not the question here.
If anything, then this video shows that just chasing someone as a basic M1 Killer is a huge wast of time and you should sometimes just drop the chase and catch another survivor or wait until you can use your power. A basic M1 chase is a huge wast of time if both sides are equaly skilled.
Also this video shows you that without anything added the survivor is the one playing the mindgame. Otz can mostly just react to the way a tile is run, maybe change the direction (LT-Wall) but never make a huge play. Zubat is dictating the pace of the chase. This is a bit interesting as most people think that the Killer dictates most chases when in fact it is the survivor.
However this is just a model, an simplified version of reality with as few elements as possible to make a basic observation. This is in no way represantative for a normal chase. And if it is representative for your chases, maybe you should change something and not play into a weakness.
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ehhh, doctor is tricky, a lot of people consider B-tier average or something but a good doctor is very hard to loop. My tip to looping a doctor is to not drop pallets when doctor is far away from you. A lot of survivors tend to get conditioned into being denied a pallet drop that when they do get to drop a pallet, they end up dropping the pallet into animation lock which results in doctor walking in your direction and smacking you after the pallet drop. Another tip I'd say is that if your further than like 16 meters away from the doctor, you can often side-step his shock on purpose, but you will lose distance because your not running the loop optimally, but this can be good if your goal is to drop a pallet. Dead hard is really good vs doctor, a lot of survivors save their dead hard, but than realize they've been shocked thus unable to dead hard, use dead hard to dodge electricity on the floor instead for distance. I'd say you can do a 2 minute chase.
I am not sure why people think that this isn't a real simulation of the game. the real similuation the game is even easier because killers have to find survivors manually, put survivors on a hook and you get 3 chances each to achieve this result.
Rip the people that got Nurse, they shouldn't play the lottery. they won't win.
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The chase should have lasted longer if zubat didn't do a couple of macro mistakes regarding his general pathing between tiles.
It's a trapless trapper in a bad starting position, and very long chase against an opponent not failing on generic tiles is to be expected - and that's precisely how it should be in this artificial scenario.
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Yeah personally im glad i ran windows and sprint burst though as my 2 perks. Predropping gp into running normally against a brutal strength doc wouldnt end well. Then he also had instashock (the purple) and longer range. Luckily he respected the 2 pallets till the end so i at least accumulated some time. I kept the record for the entirely of the livestream at 1 minute 10 seconds though.
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i understand this.
- that's right but the survivor also isn't using any gamechanging perk like dead hard for example. There are too many killers with different powers to make a universal statement.
- i rarely see survivors doing this. And if they're in a team and think the killer is a tunnel baby, they will just do exactly this, throw down everything while the rest is slamming gens
- true, i think he had good one. also as i said, the map is maybe a bad example as it is one of the worst for killers
- again, rarely see survivors care about this. If they're in a team they just warn their mates.
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U realize Otz wans't using his power huh?and he was on trapper.Basically m1 all game till u down a survivor.My grandma can loop a killer all game like this.
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Maybe i should have worded it differently but i'm aware that this is no normal chase scenario. I'm at rank 1 currently, playing Wraith most of the time, so i know i have to break chases a lot to have a chance. But i thought about the casual killer with <300 hours while watching this. You read a lot about running tiles as killer and mindgaming, but if a survivor is playing it safe and doesn't spare ressources, you can easily run a killer for 5 gens. That's all i wanted to say. Of course this is happening VERY rarely and teams with 4 zubat's are extremely rare, or else no one would play killer anymore.
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It's important to also note that a 1v1 can result in a very weird gameplay that wouldn't normally happen.
In a 1v4, survivors need to care about their teammates, they need to worry about being more conservative with pallets because they don't know what will be needed when the match is more progressed. They need to worry about running into their teammates, potentially giving the killer a weaker target. Also Otz did not use his power, nor could he disengage from the chase for an easier target.
In a 1v1 we're just worried about the survivor being as safe as they need to in order to last longer.
It's the reason 1v1s with the Deathslinger are not useful either. You need a Slinger that is pressured by gens, that needs to use their power. Otherwise the Slinger will be totally free to never use their power and just fake it for distance.
However, those hay loops are problematic. I did not realize how much you can see the killer on those loops. That's kinda busted imo. Also it needs to be said that there are some structures that a lot of killers cannot even afford to mind game, they just have to brute force it until the pallet is down, because the survivor can always have a position from where they can just react to whatever the killer does. I think this is an issue since it essentially allows survivors to waste the killer's time without even having to mind game.
Regardless, this 1v1 needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't use it to derive too many conclusions about the game's balancing.
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