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Ruin/Pop is better than Ruin/Undying. Prove me wrong.
I'm not going to hard-defend Ruin/Pop, I just want to see arguments for Ruin/Undying (and Ruin/Pop probably), and have a discussion.
Comments
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Yeah I get that.
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I think it depends on the Killer and the player’s playstyle, but for the most part, I agree.
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All right, Pop requires you to waste time going to kick a gen and often forces you to choose between regressing a gen or going for a chase. Undying just let's ruin last a bit longer so you don't have to worry so much about gens.
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Makes sense.
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I like Ruin/Undying on Twins since Pop is the worst slowdown Perk on them.
I usually run Corrupt and nothing else or no slowdown at all, but I agree that Ruin/Pop is better and more reliable.
It cannot be completely destroyed like Ruin/Undying which makes it automatically better.
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Well,
Ruin/Undying didn't require the killer do anything for it's benefit. Pop requires you catching someone and kicking a gen.
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It's Risk vs Reward. And the argument also depends on whether you think a perk combo is stronger because of its effect or because of its consistency.
Ruin + Undying is arguably the stronger effect (since Ruin is the strongest regression perk and Undying just makes it last longer), but it can be removed. Allows you to play with all 4 perk slots engaged, but lose both Hexes and your build is cut in half.
Ruin + PGtW is more consistent since you have Pop to fall back on when Ruin goes kaputt, but it results in the killer always playing with three perks at any given time since Pop cannot be used while Ruin is active.
I do think most people skew towards the side of consistency being better in DbD though; I definitely see the Ruin/Pop combo more often than Ruin/Undying these days.
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Thanks for the reply, this helps!
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So your argument is that Ruin/Undying is better on the significant majority of the killers in DbD?
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When I choose Ruin Undying, It is usually because I have another perk that combos very well with Ruin like Tinkerer or Surveillance.
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Ruin undying is more useful in a full hex build with haunted grounds retribution or thrill of the hunt with higher mobility killers
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This. I was always against ruin/pop because one had to fail to use the other. If ruin stays up the pop is useless. This was until I finally ran it and realized the damage you can do early game/mid with ruin and have pop for late which is when it shines (2 gens or less). I personally don't feel it has to be just high mobility depending on your skills/style but have greater success. I first ran this combo on Blight and loved it especially since I'm new with him and suck royal ass with the lethal rush hits. I run just ruin with twins and feel undying would be better choice with them nobody get the gens regressing faster with ruin than Gollum.
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I can't, because you are correct. The only exception i'd say is nurse but i don't really think that counts because i can run no perks on nurse and still 4k every game.
I personally use Ruin as early game regression, and pop as late game regression. I see ruin as a better version of corrupt intervention that requires an action from survivors to get rid of. It is really rare that ruin gets cleansed immediately, usually i have time to at least get the totem to stop it from being broken. On some matches it lasts the whole game and is the reason i won the match. On average it probably gets cleansed in 2 minutes or so, but provides far more value than corrupt ever does.
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I'm sorry, but Legion and Oni are not mobile. You're not popping Oni's power to move around the map quickly unless you've already won the trial because that's a massive waste of blood, and Legions potential mobility is worse than old, addonless Wraith. I use their power to get around the map quite a bit, and it's honestly just for memes at this point because it's so not worth it except under very rare and specific circumstances.
Which leaves Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, Blight, Demo, Billy, and Wraith. Most of them still having the conundrum of having to choose between a chase and kicking a gen.
Against Trapper, Huntress, Myers, Hag, Doctor, Bubba, Pig, Clown, Legion, Plague, Ghostface, Oni, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Twins and Trickster.
That is 7 Vs 16.
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I think corrupt, ruin and pop are the better combo.
Corrupt stops the stupid early game where 4 people all spawn on separate gens. Actually allows you to build pressure and get the game in motion, plus big maps still exist.
Ruin, best regression perk especially when pressuring players. Really can help against those stronger teams but sadly it's a hex.
Pop, well its not even good tbh but its the most reliable regression perk. Sadly 25% of a gen isn't much due to the chance of 3 gens being worked on not to mention the time carrying,hooking and walking to a gen will cost you progress but hey better than surge with its multiple requirements for 8%
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That's just factually untrue. Ruin/Undying does absolutely nothing for the killer unless they are good at pressuring gens. Bad killers get very little value from Ruin/Undying.
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Pop is a nice back up plan just in case ruin gets cleansed.
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Ok thanks I will keep that in mind. I also while rushing around the map for mobility attack at the end of my rush even though there are no survivors because it def seems like the cooldown/injection time is shorter. Idk maybe it's all in my head but the process feels that way. Fred is in my top 3 as well never tried ruin/undying/tinkerer with him. BBQ and pop has always been enough but I do have an open perk slot not since disco aint what it used to be.
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Reject Ruin/Pop, embrace Corrupt Intervention
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Ruin and pop is anti-synergy. Unless ruin is cleansed before your first hook, pop will always give less value compared to if you hadn't ran ruin with it.
The only reason why anyone has any success with both of them is because they are independently good perks.
That said, if you're able to get enough value out of pop that having 2 ruins isn't better, then just run pop without ruin and have an additional 3 perks instead of just 2.
Ruin undying meanwhile actually does have synergy.
Ruin and pop is less than the sum of it's parts. That sum being really high to begin with doesn't change that.
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And good killers?
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Get rewarded for playing well, as players should on both sides.
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Those new survivor perks will make hex perks more unreliable good luck guys I know i will abuse them
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Here is the simple answer. Neither one is better than the other and both have up and downsides, it comes down to preference.
Ruin/Undying is good because you have to find to two totems to take ruin down which is by far the best gen regression perk in game. Also you dont have to waste time kicking a gen and can get to a chase fast. Totems also are somewhat becoming harder to find
Whilst Ruin/pop you only have one totem to find and then you rely on a fail safe pop. Pop forces you to kick a gen and waste your time which is precious to a killer.
At the end of the day it comes down to what you feel will help you and your playstyle the best.
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So, assuming good killers. Ruin Undying doesn't require the killer do anything special to receive the benefit. They don't need to break chase or go out of their way to kick a gen.
Both builds have ruin. Thus both builds require chasing survivors off gens.
Take note this is a comparison of two perk builds and not some survivor main saying killer is easy.
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On the flip side - if you NEED both ruin and pop, you're probably as mediocre as an off brand chicken nugget.
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"So, assuming good killers. Ruin Undying doesn't require the killer do anything special to receive the benefit."
You're statement was not if it required anything special, you're statement was that it didn't require killers to do anything for its effect. Those mean different things.
Also I feel like you're downplaying a requirement of map pressure/playing well. That isn't necessarily just what a killer normally would do. Most players are quite bad and don't know how to properly pressure the map and there's players that don't map pressure intentionally, they just tunnel one player out at a time. It further incentitivizes them to play in a more specific (fun for everyone) way.
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Good killers don't play with stacked gen regression/slowdown perks already so the question kinda answers itself 🤷🏻♂️
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I don't really understand why Ruin/Pop is such a good combo. Either you never get to use Pop, or ruin gets destroyed. You'll basically just have 3 perks whatever happens. And that's why I think Ruin/Undying is better. I mean sure, if both Ruin and Undying break, you'll only have 2 perks left. But if no totems get cleansed at all, Ruin/Undying would be more useful.
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With the change to moris in the future pop could get less valuable for the last gens. You cant mori when you want to use pop.
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Consider the context of the OPs question before assigning your own interpretation of my post. Both perk build have ruin. Both builds require the player to be playing in a way best utilizing each build. I did not say one build was braindead compared to the other.
You are assuming malice where there is none.
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Nothing was assumed, I took you verbatim.
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Then I don't know how we got to this point.
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