Is Nemesis Strong?
I watched some streams. I do not know reason is people new as him or something else but he seem little weak. Who played as him or against him? What are you thinking about him? How is him power, good or not? Him tier? And zombies are useful?
I waited so much time for Nemesis, i just do not wanna get dispointed.
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Since his power can be rendered useless by getting infected from the zombies, i´d say he´s mid tier at best.
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I'd say so, his ability to negate low loops without a movement speed penalty seems pretty great and comes without a movement penalty, and the zombies pushing people off gens and locking down taller loops looks great, if not very hit and miss. Pallets are pretty useless against him, particularly in t3, and he can shred through them in t2 onwards.
I think he's going to be much stronger than people initially realise.
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Zombies spawning slow then? Because i saw they spawning good. Tier 3 is seem bad, i do not know why people have to effort for get T3 because i did not see any different between T3 and T2.
Zombies are new mechanic, i wish they would be more useful. But they are stopping by objects so much. If they would me smarter than this, that would be perfect. Maybe we can see little changes with release date. Or maybe zombies have to be more, small maps 2, middle maps 3, big maps 4 zombies.
Tentacle seem like easly dodge and strike distance is small. But this is i just saw on stream, i did not try. So i can be wrong.
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I have also seen some streams although I think it is still too early to judge. But this is my opinion
Power: Good
Zombies: A little weak
Killer tier: A
Play with / against him: Not boring, so fun and good
EDIT: After 2 more days of watching streams I think Nemesis is Tier B
Post edited by Antares2332 on1 -
it starts off small, but even then its still enough to hit over pallets, windows and some loops. increases range with t3. Not easy to dodge at all imo, much quicker than say a hatchet or pyramid heads ranged.
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When he hit survivor with tentacle behind pallet, i think pallet also have to go with hit. Like Demo. I think that little change will be good, what are you thinking? Ofcourse for that he have to be min Tier-2
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Worse than Trickster.
The Infection he can cause does nothing, it's purely a blue visual effect for survivor, it doesn't hurt survivors so there's no need to cleanse at all but Nemesis needs to hit and infect to gain his power up but if survivors don't cleanse then he can't power up cause he can't infect who is already infected so he has to use his tentacle on Zombies but zombies give very little mutation in comparison wich means you are already dependant on add-ons to increase the infection gain from Zombies so you can keep powering up once all survivors are Infected. Zombies can also infect Survivors so if a survivor purposefully infects themselves via a zombie they are robbing Nemesis of a big chunk of mutation progress and again there's no downside to being Infected at all so make your conclusions on this...
The Tentacle reach is not that good in tier 1 and even at max power, tier 3, the reach is less than Demo's Shredd, less than Pyramid Heads Special or Deathslinger's harpoon, it's more like Myers Extended Lunge in Evil Within 3, maybe a bit better than that but not by much.
The Tentacle has no verticality, it only hits directly in front of him, you can't aim up or down so if survivors crouch behind windows or pallets they are safe from the Tentacle. It's basicly Scorpion's chain spear from Mortal Kombat if it serves as reference. And the hitbox is not very wide, it's pretty narrow, narrower than PHead's Special.
The first time you hit a Survivor with the Tentacle you will either infect them and gain some mutation towards tier 2 OR if the survivor is already infected you will damage them so they become injured. So if you find a healthy survivor that isn't infected, you msut use the Tentacle 3 times to down them, first use for infection and then 2 more times as normal damaging hits. Survivors need to be Infected for the tentacle to do normal damage. If a Survivor is injured but not Infected you need 2 Tentacles hits, first for infection and the second for normal damage. You are always forced to play around the Infection mechanic while Survivors suffer no consequences wether or not they are infected, this needs to be adressed, the killer can't go live like this, hitting Survivors 3 times with power is more time consuming than going for 2 normal M1 hits.
The Zombies that spawn in, spawn in an RNG fashion so they aren't always reliable but you can see their auras in white.If you see the Zombie trying to reach for something then it's an indication that there's a survivor in that area, it's some information but you don't have any mobility tool to get there if you're far away so this information ends up not being anything meaningful. Zombies can however block windows or pallets wich will help you once or twice, it's not a super useful thing that happens constantly unless the RNG Gods have Blessed you.
So lacks mobility, lacks range, Zombies are RNG, tiering up in power is very slow and Survivors can control that, he is very tall and easy to spot from far. I genuinly can't say this is any good for any killer.
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I can not wait try him :( I wish i would chance to try PTB but for some reasons i can not.
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are you playing on the steam version?
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Yet to play him because of work, but he seems decent from what I've seen.
Honestly I hope he's mid tier or so. After Pyramid Head I don't want to see another Iconic character I love get absolutely hated and get me smacktalked just for playing them.
that and I finally get a killer that just punches people.
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Without infection: survivors need to get hit 3 times. But those first hits make him stornger, as his tentacle can hit targets that are further away.
With infection: survivors need to get hit 2 times. But his power won´t increase. Turning him into a normal m1 killer during the rest of the match.
Its like playing Trapper without traps.
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I watched multiple streams yesterday (since I'm on console so no PTB for us, not even a proper optimization lol) and none of them said he is strong. Many thought the pallet breaking with his power is the best thing with him and many acknowledged that the zombies will get annoying really fast when going against him even if they aren't strong at all against good survivors. Many compared him to Demo, PH and Plague but just weaker version.
There are four vaccines in the map, one for each survivor, this means you need THREE hits with his POWER and you have to do this EIGHT TIMES! All you get for this ridiculous amount of extra work is the pallet breaking ability (which should be basekit anyway and available right away) and a laughably small increase to his tentacle range. Not only this, but like a comment above said his tier gain can be delayed significantly by letting the zombies infect you, that is just stupid! He moves at 115 % speed so he has no map pressure but the zombies which are partially RNG and do nothing against good survivors.
They made a too weak Nemesis, I'm so disappointed!
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He´ll have problems even reaching T2 against skilled survivors.
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Yes i am Steam player.
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- Right-Click the Dead by Daylight Application in your Steam Library
- Access Properties
- Access the "Betas" Tab
- Select "public-test" from the drop-down menu
You may need to restart steam for it to appear.
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He won´t be able to hit through pallets, windows or loops while he´s in T1. Since survivors infect themselves through zombies, he won´t get any infection from them. Good luck hunting down 6 zombies and ignoring survivors to get you ability.
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From what I ve seen, he is A tier for sure. Dubno how much they nerf him before release but now he is strong which is good
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Thank you Doctor Herman, i will try
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Well i have question, if survivors infect themself by zombies, you will not get tier power. And if they reject clean, that is also problem. I mean if you wont clean against Plague, she can take you down with one hit, if you clean she can get power. Good survivors will get infect by zombies for not give power to Nemesis. Do you think that is problem? Because zombies gives you little power for get Tier 2.
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This is like playing Plague against experienced survivors. They will wait with cleansing themselves until the very end. Playing without your power for most of the match isn´t exactly great. Sure, you will get some window or pallet hits on T1, but where is that different from other killers? They will also hit you through windows, when they are close enough.
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I will try today and i will write my opinions. But if @Tsulan is right, maybe zombies have to give more power. I mean 4 zombies for Tier 2. When Nemesis gets Tier 2, i think he will be okey.
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You are wrong. Read it all i'm being very detailed about why he is weaker than Trickster, even PTB Trickster, i've played PTB Trickster...
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To get infected by zombies you need to find them... It is very likely that Nemesis will find you sooner.
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Seem like Nemesis will have problems against good survivors.
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I hope you are right, but i fear, i´m right. So far he wasn´t impressive while playing against him.
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From what I've experienced, he is mid-tier at best.
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I think Bamboozle will be good on him. Pallets will destroy by him power. And when you block windows with Bamboozle, he can be really good. But i still think zombies have to give 25% of tier 2. Then you can get your power before gens done.
Because i think he will have same problem with Myers. Myers is strong but when he get finally power, he losing gens so fast. So there 2 options for make Nemesis good for that. More option for get power or make zombies more effective. Because him power is not gives him one hit. When you injured survivors as Legion or Plague, they turning one hit. Nemesis has not that, so he really need get power faster. For now, that is only problem about him.
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I watched a few matches yesterday, but he seems interesting. I think he's going to be strong at low-mid ranks and his perks are interesting. Even his mutation rate isn't dependent on hitting survivors, he can go around taking out zombies.
Lethal Pursuer alone points new players in the right direction. Even zombies can help point players in a good direction as well. LP is a bit wasted for a whole perk slot imo, since beyond the initial aura read you are down a perk. But it can work with new killer players.
Eruption seems interesting to pair with Surge/PGTW. I think cooldown is too long, but is interesting
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Played a bit of him. I think he's really fun. I just think the usual crowd of "wee woo every killer must be top tier viable" are going to hate him. I'd say he's slightly worse than PYramid head but its the more unique power I'll be playing him for.
I love killers with powers that go by stages like Micheal.
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Well i just wanna be sure and see he can get power fastly. Because when i lost 3 gens and get power that will not be fun. That is reason i stopped play as Myers.
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He is A tier. Not overpowered or weak,he is just where he needs to be. Survivors are getting stronger and stronger,devs shouldn’t release weak killers like trickster for example.
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You only get increased range in tier 3 so hitting over pallets, windows and loops won't be easy until you reach tier 3, you'll need to be really close during tier 1 and tier 2 wich means with 1 more second of chasing you can get an M1 when you compare the reach of tentacle to what distance you gain from moving that 1 second plus using the M1 lunge, the Tentacle before tier 3 is not a huge advantage.
If all 4 survivors are already Contaminated then you're forced to use Zombies and Zombies give very little progress to mutation, you'll need the addons so no it's not good for Nemesis to have Survivors infected all the time, Nemesis needs them to cleanse in order to get tier up faster without having to rely on add-ons but there's no reason survivors should get the Vaccine because being Contaminated doesn't mean you get injured like it is against Plague. Survivors can go for Zombies and purposefully get Contaminated and cuck Nemesis out of very meaningful and very needed mutation progress and still be healthy. Getting Contaminated doesn't damage you in any way, the hindrance status effect is also meaningless, if Nemesis hits you with the tentacle that means he is right there on your ass in a chase, hindrance doesn't affect survivor ability in chase. So you're still healthy and you can still do everything normally and by staying Contaminated you're forcing a slowdown on Nemesis mutation progress, thus keeping him weaker for more time.
Survivors have to get hit 3 times to go down by Tentacle or Zombies, how is being Contaminated a problem for Survivors if it works like this? If you're Contaminated it will take 2 hits, the normal amount. Meaning the Contaminated hit from entacle or Zombie doesn't damage Survivors at all.
"In fact he's 4.6 and MEANT to be an m1 killer" - Exactly he is meant to be an M1 killer so getting Survivors Contaminated is useless when you can just go for M1 injury and skip the whole power up process that only slows Nemesis down. All the Contaminated effect does is build the Tentacle but like you said he is an M1 killer so you can simply ignore his power wich means his power is dumb and far more trouble than it's worth. Does the Tentacle help in chases yes it does if it's in tier 3 but getting to tier 3 takes so long that if you're not going for heavy slowdown perks then you'll never get to use tier 3 in a meaningful way so your Tentacle range and recovery is very poor.
Against a Survivor THAT IS NOT Contaminated tier 3 still means Nemesis has to hit you 3 Times with the Tentacle, the Tentacle cannot hurt your health if you're not Contaminated, so yes tier 3 gives Nemesis more reach and makes the power more maneagble with recovery but it's still 3 hits so how is that worth more than 2 M1's?
So all a Survivor has to do is delay getting Contaminated as much as possible to delay Nemesis mutation progression, do your Survivor stuff as usual and once you get the tier 3 sound cue, use a Vaccine and force Nemesis again to have to hit you 3 times eith the Tentacle. Being Contaminated throughout the matches means nothing, you're still healthy and if Nemesis chases you then it's normal DbD with 2 hits down.
Nemesis base kit needs to be adressed otherwise he's a glorified M1 killer, like Legion or Trapper or Myers, except Myers has 1 shot downs. I can excuse Contamination being absolutly useless if Nemesis can get tier 3 faster and make use of the Tentacle on loops cause otherwise like you said he is an M1 killer.
The Zombies are RNG, they'll help or they won't help. Information is only useful if there's anything you can do about it. If you got 1 guy hooked and another slugged and you see a Zombie chasing someone are you gonna go there and leave the 4th survivor to get a double save? Will you leave and let a potential Unbreakable play happen while the 4th survivor could be cranking a gen? If you're far away then that information is something but doesn't mean there's anything you can do about it, if you're closer then you might be able to start a chase. I can have Legion killer instinct procc on all the map and know there's someone in the opposite corner of the map but there's no way to get there in a timely fashion to do anything, the same applies to Zombies. The difference is Zombies can actually force you out of where you are wich is totally RNG based on their placement, i don't think that is any fair towards Survivors when it happens but thankfully it only happens so few times. If the killer relies on RNG for pressure then it's a badly designed killer.
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Ofc the tier 1 range matters, Tier3 has much better range and will give the hits tier 1 doesn't. Tier 1 requires to be closer to the point where going for M1 is worth more because it directly injures instead of just Contaminate wich makes M2 useless until it is tier3 but you won't get to tier3 if you don't use M2. How are you not understanding the problem? Nemesis is forced to use a weaker tool to power himself up but powering himself takes so much time that the tool then is barely used at it's max power. It's the same as Plague where before she didn't start with a Corrupt Fountain so she was at the mercy of Survivors cleasing to get to use her power, Nemesis is the same issue all over again and Zombies alone takes too long to power up to make M2 worth using against survivors. Until tier 3 M2 is no worth when M1 does a better job.
To go down to Tenteacle you need to be Contaminated meaning Nemesis has to hit 3 times... Hitting 3 times with M2 is more time consuming than hitting 2 times with M1 meaning once again M2 is useless. As a Survivor do you want to go down to 2 hits or 3 hits? Ofc you wanna go down to 3 hits so a Nemesis that keeps using his Tentacle is more benefitial to you as a Survivor.
You yourself already agreed he is an M1 killer why are you still trying to defend the Tentacle, it's range is laughable at tier 1 and 2 and tiering up to tier3 takes so long that it keeps the Tentacle weak for the majority of the match meaning you're forcing a 3 hit for Nemesis if he choses to use the Tentacle isntead of M1 how can you say that is bad for Survivors and good for Nemesis?
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From my point of view, nemesis is almost killing deathslinger as he can attack with his tentacles and counter Iron Will, not saying about he countering pallets at the Tier 2
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He's definitely powerful, somewhat more so than Twins and a little less powerful than Oni, and close to Pyramid Head. His zombies are very good on indoor maps, and are only useful for passively harassing survivors and territorial control on open maps. They have a tendency to camp around areas, and can make doing an exit gate or a generator a deadly task, especially with how slowly they move. On indoor maps, they can body block you and turning the corner is always rolling the dice. They are very RNG dependent, since there are only two, but can apply pressure and stall survivors very well.
His tentacle thing is pretty menacing. Unlike deathslinger and pyramid head, you aren't slowed down a lot or restricted in movement at all. The charge time for the tentacle is less than half of a second, and it can shoot through windows, crevices, and pallets. It can break pallets and breakable walls too, which is pretty great. It's an efficient way to destroy pallets since you can do it from a distance. You can think of the tentacle as a projectile somewhere between pyramid head and deathslinger.
A lot of people have been concerned with survivors just staying unvaccinated and preventing him from getting his tier-ups. Getting two survivors infected via the tentacle will put you into tier ii, which allows you to destroy pallets and breakable walls. At that point, you only need three more survivors infected, or you can destroy zombies with your tentacles to get to tier III. Honestly, the tentacle is pretty menacing though, and unlike staying infected like you would against plague, which disables her power, staying infected against Nemesis enables his power. You become vulnerable to his tentacle whilst infected, and a lot of times, that's not worth preventing a tier up.
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He's b teir I would say but I do think he needs minuscule buffs like his lv3 only gives him 1extra meter on his power It should be like 2or 3m increase and large maps should have 3 zombies instead of 2
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He is deffently not weaker than trickster his power can hit over some loops he is 115 for generic tiles and dosent need 16 knives to.down
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Survivors dictate how Nemesis uses his power. Trickster has more control over his power, both powers hit over the same loops, yeah Trickster is a bit slower but he can attack you faster and has more range so having to hit more isn't that bad of a trade.
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Sure you can't do both but if you cuck his power than he has no reach on his tentacle, wich means his M2 will only hit from up close wich at that point the difference between M2 and M1 isn't that big, will it give you some more hits yes it will but it's not gonna give you the hits that tier 3 gives and tier 3 is where he can effectively anti-loop. Tier 3 is where the Tentacle is the most useful but if he can't get to tier 3 then he is in trouble, he is designed to get to tier 3 so if he can't get there because Survivors can deny it then he is obviously weaker. His Tentacle reach is always less than Pyramid Head, Slinger, Plague, Demo and Trickster and Huntress obviously. Even Wraith might cover more distance with his uncloack lunge vs tier 1 and tier 2 Tentacle, i can be wrong on this one but not by much.
What does it matter if Nemesis can break pallets? It's only an issue if you're Contaminated wich if you are then it's just a normal chase but unlike Demo, Nemesis in tier 2 can't reach as much as Demo's Shredd, so yes he'll break a pallet and so what? If you're not Contaminated then he has to hit you 3 times and if you're Contaminated he still has to hit you 2 times, a normal DbD chase. What does it matter if he breaks the pallet? Him breaking the pallet and not hitting you is better for you in every scenario. If you're injured but not Contaminated then he has to M1, if you're contaminated then he can M2 but depends on distance between you and him after Nem breaks the pallet. So even injured and Contaminated breaking the pallet doesn't mena you insta die, he's not faster than buba using chainsaw and he doesn't reach where Demo reaches so after breaking the pallet you're safer against Nem than you would be against Bubba or Demo.
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May I ask what is so good about T3 that T2 doesn't have ? From all the information I gathered, T3 only increases the range of the attack by 1 meter (from 5m to 6m).
From all my games I've never bothered tiering up to T3 since the rewards is completely useless imo and I've utilised T2 just fine, it's where the main power surge is. T3 seem extremely underwhelming when the only benefit of charging it is 1 meter increase to already good enough distance of the whip attack.
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Demo doesn't break pallets with his dash if he hits the survivor. Tentacles go over the pallet and hit survivors like hatchets plus if you use Tier 2 to break a pallet, it is much faster than manually breaking it since its a second faster and you can move a little instead of being stuck in an animation lock. It's like a baby Brutal Strength. He's pretty nutty once you get good with his tentacles.
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Tier 3 allows for better range consistency and a small buff to recovery. It's nice to have because of the tentacle range alone because using the tentacle become more consistant. The gains are minimal obviously but then ask yourself if the gains are minimal then why even bother right? If you don't bother with it then you're saying it's not worth, if it's not worth in players eyes then it's a badly design power and since killers are their power then it's a badly designed killer wich is my whole point he is a badly designed killer i'm just pointing ou the multiple ways he is badly designed. He isn't like Spirit in the sense that his design is so bad that you can't counterplay him, he is designed so bad that he has too much counterplay and his power up is not worth all that much. He can't be considered a strong killer with all this in mind wich is the reason of the og post.
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"He is literally an M1 killer" "How good his power is." Do you know the definition of an M1 killer?
His pallet breaking time is marginally better than normal, it's not this super fast thing. And i'll say it again, since his range is worse than everyone who can hit you from range, he still has to step in closer wich means his power is worth less than all the other powers that don't require you to be that close. Where Demo would round a corner and get Shredd ready and hit you at the pallet or break the pallet, Nemesis has to take 2 extra steps after rounding the corner to compensate for shorter reach, meaning Survivors have more time to make the right play, meaning Nemesis is Slower not only getting to where he is in range to break pallet or hit Survivor but at the breaking the pallet aswell, Demo is faster than Nemesis. Don't try to make up positive things about this cause there aren't any.
Nemesis is a mix of too manny Killers but he doesn't do any of those things better, he was worse range than everyone else that is ranged killer, his Contaminated doesn't Hurt you directly and tearing up to max power is just as bad as Myers and the gains from powering up are slim and worse than when Myers powers up, how after 5 years can BHVR make a killer that is a mix of all these things and not have him be good at any of them and he ends up being just another M1 killer. 5 years in no Dev should be making a character that is like this. He is not a better anti-looper, he has no map pressure, he has no mobility, any stealth element his denied by the sheer size of the character that can be seen through tall loops, there's no redeeming quality to the Killer.
He is worse than every other ranged killer, even Trickster. It would be nice for Trickster to be 115% movement speed like Nemesis yes but imagine if Nemesis was 110% instead would his Tentacle even be useful? No, you're too slow and you have to aim something very limited in range, you're not DeathSlinger that has alot more range to compensate for being slower. Nemesis has to be 115% while Trickster can manage himself at 110%.
And he can't hurt you directly with the Tentacle if you're not Contaminated while every other ranged killer will definetly hurt you even Plague will innevitably hurt you if you don't cleanse and you won't be able to heal if you don't cleanse but with Nemesis it doesn't matter if you're Contaminated, it doesn't hurt you directly,
Remove the Zombies and i'd rather play Trapper, at least i can plan my Trap locations better than i can plan Zombie locations and if the Trap works then thats 1 point of Damage, i don't have to deal with getting you Contaminated first so that my power works...
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