The Problems of Adding a Auto-Ban System
Before I even get into why it is such a bad idea, let me state that the way Behavior worded it was absolutely terrible. Basically it comes down to someone getting enough reports, they get banned. If you can't understand why that from the get-go is one of the worst things ever suggested for this game, here's why: This community does not need something like this in their hands, as there are already people who go through huge lengths to throw other survivor's games, to fabricate tickets that sometimes successfully get people banned, and etc. Maybe with the full system they have in mind and know what they want to implement, it's good in theory, but from we got: no. There are so many loopholes to get someone mass reported. People already misuse the report system enough already. Flashlight? Report. Camped? Tunneling? What about certain perks? A certain killer? T-Bag? What exactly is the criteria that has to be met by this new report system? How far will police-ing this new system work? Can it be trusted? Which brings me to my next point:
Behavior has a history of not listening to feedback right away and known to have awful releases. Let's look at some more recent additions; the Trickster's release and the Chat Filter system.
The Trickster was released on the PTB as a vile mess. How this killer got past QA is beyond me, given the intensive player feedback to the developers. They had 2 whole weeks to fix him. What happened to him? Minor changes that helped, and also hurt him even more, fixing absolutely nothing with the character. He was still easily next to the worst killers in the games. All-Kill's chapter was released on March 30th. He has been in this state for almost two months now, up until the stream today. What did they say? "We plan on fixing him." Now that is a good step in a new direction, but how long will that take? We don't know, as many things announced today were left super vague just like this new auto-ban system. Which brings me to ask; if the auto-ban system were to flop, how long will it take to fix the accounts falsely banned? They are taking months to fix one killer, and while you could say it has a different priority to what is being released; we have nothing to go off on.
Now, bringing up the chat filter is kind of a weak point, but is a good example of a new system that clearly didn't have any thought put into it. There are a ton of words that have been mistakingly banned, even words like some killer names, perks, maps, and even normal positive words are censored. But it's just a chat filter, there's no big deal. It's not a core gameplay mechanic, just something that's small and in the way. However, this system was introduced back on February 21st WITHOUT an option to disable it. Once again, it has been months with absolutely 0 talk on it being fixed, let alone an option to disable it. Some have overreacted to this, some do not care; but this should be used as another example of something new that BHVR has made that has only been devoid of common sense, not work as intended, and lead to a ton of frustration ontop of Trickster.
Keeping up with a track record that stems from 6 months, the talk of a system like this, coming from BHVR, can only lead to a catastrophe for the game's health unless absolutely perfect; which is something that you cannot sadly expect from the devs. If the system is disasterous, who knows how long it could take to fix. Unless they take the time to fully explain the system, who knows what to expect.I sincerely hope that the developers have the time to fully explain this system thoroughly rather than throw it at us haphazardly and vaguely like this. It doesn't look promising in this fashion and lacks common sense with what we, the consumer, know. Despite all of this though, The good thing that I can say is this new Resident Evil chapter(other than the new map) is promising and exciting given the past 2 months, and I hope this leads to a powerful stride forward than one step forward and three steps back. The survivors and killer are incredible all around in terms of design and perks, and it shows they put some time into the update. Let us just hope that they deliver in the same fashion on this new auto-ban system.
If I am at any time wrong, feel free to correct me. I haven't been too up to the date with the game lately and more than likely have missed a few things. I could go on about how the use of auto-ban systems in other games; and give props to CS-GO and Overwatch to be looked at for examples on how to do a system like this, but I feel like I've made a fair list of points already. I just wanted to spread awareness to this. Thank you, if you somehow have read all of this.
Comments
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Too true. Really well said with the recent issues. Adding this will only make things worse.
There's few enough Killers playing the game as is now, we don't need to give the 4 other players more ammunition to shoot at the one player for simply playing the game as intended.
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Agreed, Automatic ban systems are known for being messy. Now put that and BHVR together and we have a recipe for disaster.
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I dont even understand how they think thats an option, it basically ruined league of legends. My guess: its just yet another money maker for them, I dont even know who asked for that feature. If they add auto bans that only rely on counts of ban reports alot of innocent people will get banned.
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Exactly. Too many people just rant reports because they're salty. Hell, I'm guilty of it once in a blue moon when I'm having a generally bad day.
Post edited by Feleas on2 -
This wont end well.
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Just remember how dedicated servers worked at first. Now think about this. I don't want to be pessimistic, but I predict disaster.
How exactly will it work?
It auto-bans people with many reports? Farewell killer mains, you let all 4 survivors go, or you get 4 reports. Farewell survivors going for flashlight saves, plundering a key, looping killer too well, you will always get reported. Also farewell streamers, I can already see half of this community instareporting anyone who has TTV in their name or uses twitch shirt.
It only sends reports trough to the moderation team after someone gets X of them? So pretty much nothing changed BUT there is a chance that actual cheaters and griefers will go under the radar, because not enough of players will notice their wrongdoing.
Maybe it will work differently? I sure can't wait to see. Many people i know already said they are taking break from playing killer for about 2 weeks starting on implementation of this system. We got like 10 forum posts about it within 24h from announcement, I wonder why.
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It never does until it is far too late.
That is exactly why everyone should be afraid. There are already a drop of killers in the past few months, but this would for sure kill the game no doubt about it. You don't give a 4v1 an automated report system because they WILL abuse it, especially knowing the toxicity this community can bring, as I've stated in my post.
That is why we need more, THOROUGH details about the system. Not just said "HEY WE'RE WORKING ON THIS." And they dump it without a word.
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It's extremely worrying. Many games have been ruined when these systems were not implemented with enough or any safeguards, and players simply brigaded others into reporting players until they got banned.
Even in a perfectly working system, playing with the threat hanging over you that you will get dogpiled by other players if you do something they misinterpret, or even if you do absolutely nothing wrong is not something that has ever improved any game. To put it mildly. In fact it always contributes to the worst and most toxic atmospheres imaginable.
For example, consider a match where you don't unhook another survivor because you're injured, you have no defensive perks, and you don't know where the killer is, or maybe you unhook them and they charge in the wrong direction and into the arms of the killer, or frankly even just any game where everyone doesn't make it out the gate - even if they assume the best they can still get the wrong impression.
Even in games where you have full text and voice chat with random players in-game at all times, they still misinterpret your best intentions. They will not listen to reason. You can play like Florence Nightingale and still get a sackful of reports after the game (and in fact altruistic types will get targeted more than most).
Players are gonna get reported for absolutely nothing, as they probably are already. Killers will get reported if a survivor screws up and dies, survivors will get reported if they are the only ones that escape. The players that will be targeted the most are those who are playing solo and therefore don't have any way to communicate their intentions during the game. That whole time, friends in chat will be making misinterpretations about the other players which have already become set in stone by the end of the game. Just imagine the end game screen: "we're all reporting you unless you explain yourself" This will happen and it will be worse than anything anyone has seen in DbD short of targeted harassment and stalking.
The absolute minimum requirement is that in any game with SWF, any reports in that game only count for a single report. It doesn't matter if it's 2 friends with 2 randoms or 4 friends, the impact of having people in the game who can wield the threat of reports and/or convince others to vote with them in the end-game chat is extremely damaging.
I want to hear a lot more information from BHVR about how they plan to make sure this system is not abusable by malevolent players. Honestly if they roll this out without proper details, you can be a superstar MVP, a saint, the most goodhearted killer or the most self-sacrificial survivor, but you'll still be risking your account by playing after that update.
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I had not even considered the point you've made in the second paragraph. I heavily agree with it and the rest of what you have said in this post. Autobanning has never really worked out well in other games; WoW being a very great example of a system that harbors and enables very toxic enviorments. From banning top players in PvP to falsely banning streamers that are trying their hardest in PvE for mounts and the like. The ever constant "boogeyman" that we cannot trust or rely sets a huge precedent for the community; only something we can wait to see; which is a bad and a good thing.
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They've already made it clear reports can only be done by those IN THE MATCH. No one will be able to enlist all of their friends to inundate the system with a pile of reports in order to get someone banned. People need to calm the heck down.
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Yes and our fear is whenever you bring NOED or mori as killer you get 4 reports. Whenever you use key, you get a report. Whenever you loop as survivor too well, you get a report. We are afraid, that people will start reporting out of spite, because they will know you will get banned after X amount of reports.
You think this community wouldn't? I feel like lots of the players have fun in annoying killers by tea-bagging all time, or camping / tunneling as killer. You think those players would not start reporting everything left and right? When they would know, it HAS an effect, even if it's fake report?
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Thanks for the information but that changes absolutely nothing about how it can be abused. Do you know how easy it would be to get people together in a discord, queue up against a streamer, and constantly queue snipe them just to report them? What then? I get the same people when I play at least 3 times every night when I am playing; what if those people were reporting me every game; where they could consistently report me?
And no, people like me and the people who have posted on this topic have every right to be afraid. This is a system that KILLS the health of other games that have implemented an auto-ban system. Killer's are at a severe risk more than survivors as well. I wish you had read what I had typed; rather than throwing info just like how BHVR threw the mention of the auto-ban system with 0 discussion about it.
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I agree with you Kumakx, I sincerely believe that this community should not have their hands on such a system prone to be abused. From what I read and what I have gotten on my steam post, people do tilt report.
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Unless you know of some magical way to actually ensure you get the EXACT Killer player you want (or make sure that the EXACT survivor player you want) to ban in your matches, this is a non-issue. As far as I know, match-ups are completely random, so the odds would be very small.
If you're getting the same people multiple times in a row, the only things I can think of is that you're either playing at a time when the number of players is drastically low, or you have some unicorn-level luck/un-luck (as they case may be).
For me, I occasionally recognize names (some names are memorable, otherwise I wouldn't notice) - but they are days, if not weeks, apart between times I'm in the same match as them.
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It's a lot easier than you think. At red ranks is where the system will be most abused at, I predict, since it's a lot easier to target said players and most of the toxicity is from red ranks.
I play throughout multiple times throughout the day over weeks and every play session I run into the same 4 people in different games with sometimes different teams. Same results on average.
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