Lethal Pursuer exposing DbD greatest issue for balance
TLDW
The game can just sometimes spawn survivors pre spread out and that basically just gives the survivors 3 free gens and possible free totems. The game should always spawn the survivors together and they have to spread out themselves.
Comments
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Yup
They'll get to it in a few years.
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That is a huge problem and needs to be addressed. If that unlucky spawn happens at Mother’s Dwelling, might as well mark that off as an automatic L.
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I'm not good at chases. So my matches are:
- Get found first, have a crappy match, sometimes 1-2-3 hooked and no fun.
- Hide until the killer chases/injures someone else and have a more productive match.
Rarely, I will escape a first chase or whatever, but more and more, matches just feel like everyone hiding until the first person is chased or hit. I agree with the sentiment here that the survivors should all spawn together but I'm not sure what the other repercussions of such a thing would be.
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This is what the "Match Warmup" mechanic they said they were working on around a year ago was supposed to fix. I hope they haven't given up on it but we haven't heard about it since they mentioned it that one time.
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The fact that the shroud offering for killer separates the survivors, and the survivor ones bunch them up at spawn, shows a clear lack of understanding in the true weaknesses of killers (or rather, it does when they were first added, and they just havent been updated since)
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This is a easy fix all they need to do is make it so at base. All 4 Survivors spawn together on 1 side and killer spawns on the other side of the map so it’s like chess. They should also remove the separation offerings on both sides since it’s built into the game
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It shows that their understanding was lacking back when these offerings were created. But that was multiple years ago.
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Hey now, a few years is pushing it. Can't have everything all at once.
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I loved the additonal part of this showing how a survivor spawned right on top of one of his totems, essentially eliminating a perk right off the bat as well. Insult to injury in this case.
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I never thought that Lethal Pursuer of all perks would reveal a glaring issue about the game.
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I've been saying this for awhile now. There is no GEN RUSH, just survivors who spawn all over the place on gens and totems.
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how fast generators go is dictated by the survivor's skill in a chase and their teamwork and generator optimization. not by where they spawn. I am certain you can have a equally as fast game with every survivor spread out as you can have equally slow game. I have had games where the first 2 gens were prove thyself and someone did a gen solo by the first hook and I have had games where 3 generator pop separately. If someone can find a counter-argument than the theory is already disapproved.
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All 4 survivors spawn on seperate gens. We know each gen will take 80 seconds to complete. Killer takes 30 seconds cross mapping and gets in chase. 40 seconds to down since holding w alone adds 20 seconds. 10 seconds to hook. 80 seconds and 3 gens pop. And ya got 1 hook GJ.
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Nah, gen speed is bullshit. Making survivors spawn together means they all go into the first gen and in 26 seconds they did 20% of the game, if they have a key that's 33% of the game. One entire objective completed before a single minute with nothing the killer could do.
And even then, you still have the rest of the game. Unless you have ruin there is no actual slow down perk so if 4 survivors go into different gens, in 80 seconds they finish 4 generators.
I hate that the game has to be balanced around potato survivors, it assumes survivors are so dumb they can't organize, a killer shouldn't depend on survivors being dumb or lazy. The math outright shows in 80 seconds 4 gens can pop, that is not ok. 80% of the game finished in 1 minute and 20 seconds. The killer has to down and move at the speed of light to stop 4 different gens from popping, and even then that does nothing because scaring someone off a gen or kicking it or hooking whoever was working on it doesn't make it go back to 0%.
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Even assuming they spawn directly on a generator, and assuming its even a 4-man generator which most are not, and even assuming the killer just doesn't find these people in 30 seconds, even considering ALL of that, that is still WAY better than four survivors working on four separate generators. I will take a gen popping in 30 seconds while finding the entire team over that any day of the week.
Your numbers are also grossly over exaggerated. There is no scenario ever in which 4 gens are popping in 80 seconds unless the killer is literally AFK.
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I would love if survivors spawned in guaranteed groups of 2, 3, or 4.
Then I guarantee my co-op points on a generator at the start of the game and do other things (like totem cleansing) without worrying about my already-almost-capped objective point category.
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When the addons were first made the game was still incredibly survivor sided and no one really understood how to play it. These were there when the game came out in 2016.
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On the flip side, my experience has been that ever since the Legion chapter came out (you know when Discordance came out too) 95% of my matches has had me spawn next to at least 2 people. At least.
Like, to a point where I wondered why we even have spawn offerings or why we are just handing the killer a one area spawn without them having to search, because everyone is just THERE.
You also have spawns where the killer is right next to you "Oh hai there". If you are lucky enough to get a Bubba and in a dead zone that is some major RNG.
It's nice that he is pointing out one of the issues with spawn locations, but the system is also working against the other side when it comes to spawning locations.
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To be fair you spawning close to the killers kinda fair as the killer needs to get in chase and get their first down asap. Kinda why smaller maps are good.
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So a killer spawning right next to a survivor is "fair" but a survivor spawning next to a gen or totem is not "fair"?
Am I to understand that this is how fairness works?
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Coming from a person with 50/50 hours. Yeah you spawning close to the killer (obviously not in his face but like 40 meters or so). Is fairer then the killer needing to run 30 seconds to find one person on red forest. Its a 4v1 game and the killers VERY timecrunched if its a decent spawn. Maybe its just me though that thinks the killer should be able to get into chase 15 seconds of match start. I didnt know face to face spawns still existed so please enlighten me if so.
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I remember when it felt normal for after every 4 or so games, you had one where:
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Yeah I had several ideas to help this one being an object you can interact with and you need 2 or more people to activate it allowing normal gen repair speed to x amount of gens I the area and when a surivor is on its aura is revealed to everyone
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I don't understand how you playing 50/50 is relevant to the question I asked, because if anything playing 50/50 means you have more perspective and can see things from the other side and how messed up it is to spawn next to a Leatherface without a decent loop next to you.
The question is very simple. If a killer can spawn close to a survivor, then a survivor should be able to spawn at a decent distance from a generator. You forget that killers can always see generators so they aren't exactly empty handed at the beginning, survivors can't. Even when you spawn next to a gen there is still a question of "is this the best gen I can work on". Because if a killer has Corrupt, they'll know that's where you'll be.... if a killer has high mobility, there is a possibility they'll swing by before you even get to finish that gen.
So, not every killer is crunched for time. I play Trapper sometimes and I am not spending my first few seconds looking for someone, I like to trap at least 2-3 traps before I go out hunting for survivors, and even with a low map pressure killer like him I don't have this issue.
In essence what I am trying to say is... is Spawning always fair game? Absolutely not. Is it fair to say that you get bs spawns on either side, yes it is.
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Yup, that's what I am talking about. 🤣
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I think it depends what generators survivors are working on and what perks the killer has. With ruin, you definitely want survivors spread out and you want regress many generators at the same time. Like the dream scenario is 3 generators 50% being regressed by ruin. Its why Tinkerer+Ruin+Undying was consider very good on Blight. With pop goes weasel, you want survivors to tunnel on a generator so that you can keep pop goes weaseling the same generator. Overall I'd say on weaker teams, you need produce like 6 minute chases which is like 3 long chases, on medium teams, you need to do 2 good chases(usually 1 strong one at the start and one in the middle) and if your team super strong, it is possible to win in a single very long chase assuming the killer plays very badly. I'd say the average is around 2 good chases. you can win the game with like a lot of.... semi-weak chases like 40 second chases if the killer hooks each survivor twice before killing someone but I wouldn't rely on the killer play to win the game.
Its just not very hard to do long chases in most maps with all pallet resources and tiles available with 80 sec gens. Lethal pursuer is for corrupt intervention. a big argument that people say against CI is that you can just hide it out. with this perk, you cannot hide it out but the killer loses 2 perk slots permanently. I just think Whispers is probably a better early game tracking perk than this perk is. It doesn't give as precise information but it stays active for the entire match.
Obviously they'd weaken gen defense perks if they made gens longer. Pop would be like surge with 8%. CI would be like 1 gen blocked or something. Ruin would be like 100%. you wouldn't need to run the same old boring perks every match with killer.
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Okay those spawns. yeah obviously that shouldnt be a thing.I thought you were reffering to like what autohaven does now on wreckers yard. All the other 3 survivors spawn on the other side of the map but you spawn on like the opposite end of the map the killer spawned on. (I think it also does it on Yamaoka give it a try). Also corrupts weird sometimes someones told me the killer has corrupt while im literally doing a gen. We spawned so split corrupt didnt even stop me from hopping on a gen.
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I knew spawns could be bad, but I never had any idea just how bad. And what... is Shroud of Separation the Killer's version of No Mither?
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Devs: Ahh we understand... **proceeds to nerf it to only show obsession**
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I doubt the perk will be nerfed. We have the evidence we need. We know the spawns are dumb now its just will they do something about it.
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