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Nemesis worse than Demogorgon, yet compared we have interesting result
recently as Demo main, I was wondering switching to Nemesis so I compared both
chase: Nemesis is chase central killer coz he doesn't really have anything else and demo have shred and portals
soo what do we have here?
Miss/succesfull attack:
-Nemesis is absolut winner here, when miss he can still slowly walk and keep track at the survivors
-Demogorgon is punished a lot more when misses, stuck in place can't really see where are they goin (I know, use ears) and creating big distans for survivors, even when he gets to hit a runner camera movement is not helping very much
on the other hand tho...
-not if you hit, but can you hit?
Demo is Winner here, his shred range is double as long as Nemesis tentacle attack which allows him to presure windows and pallets and half-closed areas. Nemesis ability is usable in a not that long range where you prbl could hit survivor normally if you walk for 2 seconds
BUT Nemesis shrines when it comes to pallet fight, he can attack through them and through objects that are not high enough which Demogorgon can't do, he have to take tight corners shreds.
-Pallet breaking
Nemesis again is better here, he destroys pallets with tentacle with possibility to walk and see exacly what survivor is doing and already go that direction. Demogorgon is stuck where pallet all tho it's not that long.
so if it comes to chase, Demo is slighty better simply by that he have better chance do actually get hits where Nemesis can only dream to, even if he lacks so many time saves Nemesis have.
Both killers are opressive but in diffrent ways, Nemesis (atleast at the beggining) sometimes have to hit survivor 3 times before actually downing him when, Demo have greater potential of actually getting the hit (range and cornering). Nemesis can allow miss or 2.
thing with Demogorgon is, he's not only chase machine, he also have Great map mobility, so he can start a new chase fast, end it and get into another, and another. he can protect gens with it like it's nobody's bussines, track and waste time. Nemesis don't have such a tool.
yet, portals are specific tool, hard to start with, but powerfull when it goes by the plan.
in a tier list, Demo would be above Nemesis or just right above him. soo when people say Nemesis is A tier, so is Demo freaks. (sorry, kinda ego)
what do you think about comparising these two?
Comments
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In chase I would argue Nemesis is better. His whip goes over pallets, windows and small objects, it's extremely strong, but it does have a limited range which certainly balances it out. I know some people want the range to be increased, but I'm not so sure about that, and if they do, then hopefully not more than one additional meter.
His ability to break pallets is also great, though you have to get to tier 2, and demo's pallet breaking animation is actually faster, but Nemesis of course has the great advantage of being able to move. This also allows him to counter flashlights at pallets. Both are quite strong in chases but Nemesis is arguably a bit better. He does slow down immediately when you start using his power, so he gets less free zoning, which is a good thing. Releasing his power without using it also results in a long enough cooldown to allow fair counterplay, which is great in my opinion, I am happy they didn't make the same mistake as they did with og Pyramid Head.
When it comes to map pressure, Demo is better, but not by too much in my opinion. Nemesis has his zombies, and while you can't control them, and they are rng dependent, they definitely help with map pressure. I wouldn't mind if BHVR changed the zombies so they'd focus a bit more on gens and be less at pallet loops, but generally I think they already serve their puprose quite nicely.
So in general Nemesis seems a tad stronger that Demogorgon to me, but he seems like in a fine spot balance wise already. Definitely not even close to being op but potentially viable. Although particularly big maps do seem to hurt him more than many other killers.
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From what I've seen, Nemesis seems to be a better killer in terms of chasing, due to his tentacle strike and range around loops, with minimal penalties for a missed hit. Also, his zombie pals can cause some real pressure for survivors.
Demogorgon is a better map-navigator; able to use portals and the accompanying oblivious status to catch survivors off-guard. Its shred is also powerful at closing the distance, and I think it has a longer range than the tentacle, but a missed hit punishes it more.
So it depends on how you play, rather than which is stronger. Demogorgon prefers players who like to sneak up on survivors at gens, or cause chaos across the map, whilst Nemesis is a stronger pursuer (which suits, considering how relentless he was in-game!).
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He has an insteresting potencial around loops, but Im kinda dissapointed that he didn't get the rocket launcher, he could have it like an "ultimate" skill just like main event from the trickster and it wouldn't be op.
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I agree, in terms of anti-loop and chase power Demo seems more powerful than Nemesis. Plus Demo has mobility so that's a big plus. However Nemesis hasn't released yet so we'll see how it goes in the live version
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anything I can think of are some numbers changes, they won't add anything new in term of powers.
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I dont think they will change much tbh nemesis is pretty balance i think he fall in the bottom B tier or top C tier if we had a tier list for him.
The dev showed us they dont really listen to feedback from the pbe player so honestly i expect him to release like he is.
Honestly they dont have to work on him or his perk because its a RE chapter people will buy ut no matther what.
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Demo closes the distance between itself and the the survivor when using his Shred. Nemesis does not. (Due to the short range of the Tentacle Strike though, this point is trivial)
Demo can start the game damaging people with Shred, Nemesis only infects the survivor which they can then remove the infection later if they escape. Both Shred and Infection give the survivors a speed boost despite Nemesis not actually injuring a survivor upon the initial hit with the tentacle.
Demo can damage pallets at the beginning of the game, while Nemesis needs to reach Tier II before he can break them.
Shred can move Demo 11 meters while the tentacle only has a range of 6 meters, and that is only at Tier III.
Demo's global pressure needs to be created first, but It has complete control over how it gets done. Nemesis starts with pressure due to the zombies, which can down survivors and force them to leave their objectives. Nemesis has no control over the zombies (unless you count his ability to destroy them). Demo's portals can be destroyed at will, but Nemesis' zombies require using up a pallet to only temporarily get rid of a zombie, they can also be blinded but it only grants a brief reprieve.
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Every pallet hit or window hit you get with Nemesis, Demo will hit. Demo 2 hit all the time, Nemesis need to 3 hit for the first down if he use his power (why wouldn't you?). Demo is better in chase, plain and simple.
Nemesis have other effect: Infect survivor do more noise and zombi apply some weak pressure on survivor. Neither of them is significant and very situational.
Demo on the other hand have portal that even if it take some time to set up, is way stronger than what Nemesis have as second power.
So yeah Demo>Nemesis
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I really don't see how Nemesis's whip is better than Shred in any way. Shred has a longer range, faster pallet break especially with Barb's glasses that he doesn't have to earn, faster missed attack cooldown, much larger hitbox, better zoning, and isn't a 3-hit down against non-contaminated Survivors. And portals outshine zombies in every way, so...
I like Nemesis a lot, but he's giving me major "just play Demo" vibes.
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I think my love for Nemesis is due to his similarities to Demo, you trade range and map traversal for less punishment, faster pallet breaks and occasional free hits and downs
He's going to definitely be one of my mains when he releases
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soo guys
Nemesis just feels good to play, he's smooth
Demo is little harder
but if you are playing for the win, and you sweat with both, Demogorgon will be more efficient and faster at ending chases
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One thing I noticed from 4 days of PTB is that the whip, while massively inconsistent on hitting over objects, has deceptively long range. It can hit father than the blue line by a meter or two which is weird.
Anyway I really enjoy him, his pallet breaking power that allows ranged pallet breaks and movement during feels incredibly oppressive at isolated loops.
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Nemesis is better at hitting over pallets and in animation locks etc. like the rest of the killer like him are (Demo, PH, Huntress, Slinger), but I think overall shred might be better. The zoning Demo has with shred is so much better than Nemesis' zoning it's not even funny. Nemesis immediately slows down when you enter his power and it has a noticeable cooldown. Demo doesn't get slowed down until about half a second after you ready the shred and the cooldown is nonexistent, so you are quite literally zoning people for free. With the right build this becomes pretty insane.
Nemesis doesn't really have anything on the same level that Demo now has. The range only adds to this, Demo's shred covers around twice the distance of Nemesis power at Tier 3. The only weakness is you can't hit through pallets with shred. Nemesis can hit people over small loops in theory, but you can just crouch and be fine so it's not a threat.
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welp, I did mentiond all that
thoughts pls
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Stop using RNG incorrectly. They are NOT random. Their behavior is very predictable and you can control and use them in this way, it just takes foresight and thinking more than a few seconds ahead.
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I didn't see a mention the zoning potential of Nemesis compared to Demo which is what I focused on, and it's honestly the biggest strength of Demo's shred. Idk, as for my thoughts I like both killers but not for the same reasons. I think Demo is overall the better killer because his second ability is consistently useful. The zombies aren't gonna be useful outside of the very rare hit they'll get for you. On outdoor maps they're gonna be almost useless. On indoor maps they might actually put in some work.
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??? I don't follow. They literally spawn in random areas of the map at the start of the game and wander around. What good is foresight gonna be when I'm chasing a survivor and there's a zombie on the polar opposite side of Red Forest stuck on a hill lmao.
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Zombies move toward noise. Chase survivors toward them and you shut off loops; that easy. If you see a zombie somewhere you don't want them, whip and they respawn elsewhere. That is control.
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Yes, zoning, that's the word I was missing, I think I mentioned is as being ,,oppressive" instead
ya know what I mean
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