A Way to Create Pressure without changing gens
QUICK OVERALL SUMMARY FOR THOSE WHO DONT WISH THE READ THE ENTIRETY OF MY POST:
BLEED OUT TIMERS SHOULD EFFECT SURVIVORS THROUGH THE ENTIRE GAME WHILE IN ANY INJURED STATE
240s or 4 Minutes Currently vs Suggested 600s or 10 minutes in total with a 1.5s increase while near death.
Goal is to create more pressure for the Killer side while not changing generators or other things in the game, and to not promote a sluggish playstyle too much.
Currently in dead by daylight many people suggest that we as players should have a secondary objective implemented into the game and/or believe gen rushing to be too big of a problem. Well im going to suggest a change that while not out right affecting gen speed or adding a new objective, it will highlight the importance of a aspect currently already in the game which is->
Healing
Healing at high ranks is seen as a secondary necessity, sometimes just being outright ignored with many survivors especially vs “lower” rank killers like Legion or trapper etc. Many times you as a killer will just see survivors outright ignore healing in favor of gen “rushing” where they prioritize gen completion over their own safety.
I want to implement in a change that will while not outright being a over powering burden to the survivors, it will put more pressure on them and perhaps even helping many “low” killers who can injure survivors but can not out right down them like Legions frenzy, or surprise hits with pig etc.
What i suggest to be implemented is a change to the Bleed out timer as a whole. Currently the bleed out timer only matters when “Slugging” a survivor. This by many is seen as a boring way to play the game, and thus many dont want any “buffs” to a slugging style of gameplay, with the change i hope to not dramatically encourage this style of play but not really change it that much either the goal is to put a need to heal thus providing needed pressure for the killer and not to encourage “slugging”.
Now lets get into the suggestion, the suggestion is a outright change to have the bleed out timer effect the survivor throughout the entire game. During the game if a survivor is injured they drip blood constantly wherever they go aka “bleed out” and thus it makes sense for this change to be implemented and it will be a outright good change in my opinion.
Currently the Bleed out timer takes 240 seconds or about 4 minutes in total for a survivor to die while bleeding out. This being as it is alone would be much too low if Survivors constantly bleed out while damaged, however changing it too high would make it so slugging is never a risk. And so the suggested change would be to change the bleed out timer from 240s to 600s or 10 Minutes in total. Each survivor while injured will bleed out at a 1x rate if they do not heal they could potentially die from not caring about their own safety. However if a survivor is on the ground they will bleed out at a 1.5x rate or roughly in 6 in a half minutes ish to encourage survivors to pick their fellow survivor up, and not make it so its takes a dramatically longer time then normal. Overall I believe these changes will be a great healthy change to the game and make it feel more intense overall.
Comments
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I do like this suggestion, because it would make healing more of a priority and help slow down the game just a bit without being too oppressive. It'd also encourage people to cleanse more against Plague which is a bonus in my book.
I'd say just double the bleed out timer to 480 seconds and while you are Injured and Bleeding* you loose Blood at what is the current rate while Dying and change it so that while Dying you loose Blood at twice that rate. This would mean being slugged still takes the same amount of time while on the ground but takes twice as long if you just run around Injured and Bleeding* all the time.
The Haemorrhage status makes you Bleed Out at 1.5 times normal rate while Injured, and doesn't change the rate you Bleed Out while Dying. Not many people run Blood Echo or Sloppy Butcher for the Haemorrhage part of those Perks and it'd make all of the various Haemorrhage add-ons actually mean something more than just for tracking.
*Babysitter, Lucky Break, No Mither, and Self-Preservation all stop Bleeding and should also stop the Blood meter from going down while Injured. While Dying you still loose Blood at what will be the new rate, twice as fast as what it is now. Lucky Break doesn't really need another buff but we'll just have to take that hit, it's still only 60 seconds over all. And this would be the only way that No Nither would even be viable, and it might not really be a buff... In a better world I'd say that maybe a bit could be added onto No Mother that you only bleed at at half the normal rate while on the ground, so it'd take twice as long for you to Bleed Out while dying but we don't live in a better world and have to deal with cheaters who use No Mither in combination with hacks to avoid being slugged while they can't be hooked because of the hacks.
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i just think it should be longer due to the very much disliked slug style becoming a major staple in the game and thus i wouldnt want it to get encouraged, its not fun to just lay on the ground. With a longer timer it means you still have to heal more but slugging isnt as strong as it could become.
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so killer kills two people, last two survivors are injured.
Killer slugs one and auto wins because they're both going to bleed out eventually.
Also Doctor. If one survivor is madness III and he shocks them for the duration of the timer they're both still going to bleed out because there is no way to heal.
Would No Mither be immune to this timer? Is there any compensation for perks that apply the Broken status effect to yourself?
there's a lot of things that aren't being thought out here.
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Doctor would just be purposely pro longing the game which is a ban able offense, you can get banned for that thats why you cant just trap someone in a corner until they quit or dies to end game. Holding the game hostage isnt allowed. No Mither could be buffed to prevent bleeding and perks that cause you to not bleed could also be a counter to this timer for you shouldnt bleed out if you're not bleeding. And Killers already slug for 4ks anyway but now they would have to slug ALOT longer unless the survivor allowed themselves to bleed out which is the purpose of the suggested change, to force survivors to heal so they cant just ignore being smacked by a machete or katana etc and sit on gens.
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With a longer Bleed Out timer slugging is even more annoying, because once all four people are down and no one has an unused Unbreakable or an active Soul Guard then your only two options are 1) Wait to bleed out or 2) DC and take the hit there.
One or two or even three slugs isn't too bad, the Survivors can recover from that. It is only once all four people are down with no means of recovery is it a real problem. And that is where you want a shorter timer and not a longer one. You have to keep in mind that if the Killer is already going to slug everyone they won't care if it takes twice as long, for a lot of them that would probably be even better than it is now. Because they don't care about killing all four Survivors, but making the players suffer. Killer players who do this won't care about how long it takes, because to them they can just get another game right away to do it again while they know Survivors have to wait in queue for another chance at having fun.
So while I think that if you're Bleeding Out while Injured the timer for such should indeed be longer than it is now but it should not take any longer than it already does to Bleed Out while Dying. So if you double the time we have now and make that the Bleed Out timer and you Bleed at 1x the current rate while Injured* and 2x the current rate while Dying then a full four slugs would actually take ever so slightly less time to fully bleed out because of the bit lost while Injured before the second hit. Unless insta-downed of course.
*Again, excluding Perks that would be changed alongside the base mechanics so they prevent Bleeding Out.
The "Two dead, one Dying, one Injured" isn't an auto-win for the Killer, unless they just camp the person on the ground so they can't be healed, and some Killers do that now anyways instead of playing Hatch Game with the final Survivor. As for Doctor, well, they can already just Madness Lock people and if they are doing that then everyone else should be doing gens and if it's only that one person left and they are being blocked in and EGC hasn't started then that's reportable for holding the game hostage. And if it's down to two people then it's no different from when someone just slugs all the remaining Survivors so what is your point? Killers already do stuff like this.
And, yes, various Perks would need to be updated as well, pretty much any Survivor Perk that makes you Broken prevents you from Bleeding Out while Broken. No Mither is the only one that you are forever Broken, all the others you'd need to get healed once Broken wears off as you will start Bleeding Out again once you are only Injured. I'd rather Broken not just straight up prevent Bleeding Out because that'd be bad for Plague and I'd rather Survivor have more reason to Cleanse than less.
And we are thinking of them, the whole point of a DISCUSSION thread it to work on the idea and go over everything that would be required. The goal isn't to make some perfect new mechanic that will solve everything for everyone but to have something that reasonably slows the game down a little but doesn't make it unplayable for Survivors.
Right now Survivors have very little reason to take the time to heal, especially at higher levels of skill where they can loop the Killer while injured and not be too worried about getting hit. If they had a reason to heal that would mean they would have to take the time to do so, and the only reason that would work is "If you don't do it you loose the game"**.
Even so, if the Survivors are good enough they can even still ignore healing and just pound on gens if they've got the right mix of Perks and items to get them done fast enough to not bleed out from it.
** "If you don't do this thing you can't win the game." is the only other reason that would work but that is more "can't fix gens or open an Exit Gate or leave through Hatch" than "you die if you don't". Not being able to win compared to outright losing are very close but not the same thing.
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"It is only once all four people are down with no means of recovery is it a real problem. And that is where you want a shorter timer and not a longer one"
People have suggested that when all survivors don't have any means to recover themselves while everyone is slugged, they should get to press a button to bleed out faster
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The game can check those things, so:
IF -> All Survivors are in Dying StateAND -> No Survivor has a means of moving themselves from Dying to InjuredTHEN -> All Survivors start bleeding out faster OR All Survivors Die in one/two minutesI mean, the game already checks for "No Injured or Dying Survivors -> All Survivors on Hook instantly Sacrificed" so having the same thing for people on the ground shouldn't be TOO hard to do. You don't want it to be instant, that way the Killer can get the hooks, but you also don't want the wait time to be too long so the Four Slugs doesn't take as long.
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But then the problem is, what about the No Mither player? Wouldn't their existence mean that a 4-man slug can't end the game because they can always recover?
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I just want that as a default if you're on the ground for more than idk... 15 seconds? Imagine the last person is at the hatch and you know they're on it and the killer is slugging for a 4k. It wouldn't make you bleed out immediately but it make it go quicker. That way, people won't dc to give their team hatch. :D
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Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: Survivors with No Mither still bleed out on the ground, but you are right in that the game wouldn't just insta-end because they can pick themselves up. So, yes, when someone has No Mither this solution to prevent tiresome four man slugs doesn't work. But No Mither is not a meta-Perk and you only ever see it on 1) People doing Adept David, 2) People doing the No Mither Challenge, 3) People with a gimicky "while injured" build, and 4) Cheaters using lag switching. So it not like this would be happening every Trial or all that often.
If the Killer isn't wanting the long wait we have now on a four person slug they would have to actually Hook the No Mither player. As soon as that person is Hooked with everyone else on the ground with no way to Heal then the No Mither person is instantly Sacrificed and everyone else bleeds out faster than normal or just straight up dies after a bit of grace "Do you want to hook?" time. If The Killer does want the long wait for the Bleed Out then they just save the No Mither person for last and stand over them, knocking them back down whenever they get up.
On another note we can't just not do something because of edge cases, Perks already change the base rules of the game so it is not like there being one or two Perks that make it so something doesn't happen every time is a big deal.
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No mither tbh is just a gimmick and troll perk, you shouldnt be able to just ######### imo on the ground for hatch anyway since they dont even let you ######### on hook anymore.
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The Doctor would not be purposefully prolonging the game enough to warrant a ban, because the bleedout timer is considered an acceptable length of time.
That's why you can't be banned for hiding in a corner where the killer can't hook you.
That's also why they're not going to extend the bleedout timer.
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extending the timer with a 2x on the ground to make it the same length. And if the doctor smacked someone and then shocked them constantly to make them bleeout the timer would be like 10 minutes, every single gen in the game, every single exit game would be opened. I was referring to someone even being able to slug one while shocking the other. if its the end of the game and those 2 are the only ones alive if you slug one and are now able to just shock this person forever then yes you would be purposely holding the game hostage and it WOULD qualify for banning. Locking someone for 10 minutes when you could easily just hit them and end the match is holding it hostage. And isnt even the main point of the post
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