General Discussions
General Discussions
Trickster. A killer with so much potential. An oppressive killer in the right hands.
Comments
-
Yes, he is actually extremely oppressive on low wall loops, you are guaranteed to lose a health state on these and if you don't trade that hp state for a chance to travel to a high wall loop, you will get downed.
On top of that, as been said before, him having LOS on you usually means constant laceration increase.
In a case of a DS or Huntress, his downtime is minimal in case of misses and in pair with Huntress' successful hits.
He doesn't have such potential as Huntress but he is indeed much stronger than people believe he is.
But surely, he isn't a material for top sweaty anti swf buster nor will win any tournaments.
0 -
I played a lot of trickster and he's easily countered. That's his biggest weakness. There is no skill that gets around a 110 killer that moves even slower when using his power. Shack, TL walls destroy him.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Sorry to say but I hate Korean boy he is the only killer besides twins I won't touch and I only don't touch twins because I hate their noises. Trickster for me is just too much work for too little reward, Now I like a challenge don't get me wrong but with Trickster its not a challenge anymore. Its a gameshow that got stacked by the host to were even if you win you still get your kneecaps busted in by the mafia. That is what playing Trickster feels like to me. Now take the other ranged killers like Huntress yes he is "theoretically faster" than Huntress but then again she downs faster if you have a survivor cornered he will hit first but she will damage first. At wall loops a full health survivor can be downed by Huntress so much faster. The ONLY place trickster beats huntress in is when they are in a complete deadzone with no walls and no disruptions even then its only slightly faster. Now Deathslinger when put side by side Deathslinger beats him out easy the numbers don't matter here nor with huntress because of the same reason his projectile is just better even if he does not hit the basic thats still a deep wound they have to mend thats slow down Trickster on the other hand just do a gen you have wasted the killers time your teammates have gotten work done now as you get rid of ALL the killer progress you do more work you have a NET LOSS If you let them get away unless you injure them and stop immediately. Now the same could be said for huntress she loses hatchets thing is with here its easy to put that pressure back on the survivor because they want to heal they cant take even one projectile from her without getting hooked they want to make sure they can run a loop and have a safety net incase things go awry. He is just worse. Any other ranged killer is better they pose a threat everywhere thats the thing that puts him so low he is not a threat unless you are in the wide open with no loop near you.
Anyway I feel like I've given my contribution to society today and I'll be having a nap now good day to you sirs, madams, and everything in between.
0 -
I counter Trickster's ability at places like car loops by not going to car loops in the first place. Then he spends 30 seconds getting a single pallet down at a jungle gym.
That's the thing about Trickster. He is theoretically strong in specific spots, but he has no power to compel survivors to those spots. It's up to the survivors to put themselves in a bad spot against Trickster. And he's so phenominally weak in other spots.
7 -
Ive been facing 3k hour red ranks atm, he still performs well.
0 -
He's not the worst
In the right hands he can be somewhat effective but he's more of a nuisance against anyone using a good loop.
He's certainly better than Wraith or Legion but he's not very good
0 -
I think main event should up your movement speed to 115% while in it or make it so knives deal double laceration in main event. It should be powerful especially since you cant hold it and use it whenever.
0 -
He is lethal at close range. But the fact of the matter is, at that close of a range at loops, most of your windows of opportunity to hit Survivors are going to be very small and narrow, meaning Trickster will have to grace that window multiple times since he'll only get 2 or 3 knives in for each one. Something like a hatchet or a Shred or a Punishment or a spear, on the other hand, will take that small window and get a full health state of damage out of it, not one-eighth of one. This means that even at close range, other attacks usually prevail as they can do much more with a narrow grace period than Trickster can. You simply cannot escape the fact that it takes more time to hit someone with your power 8 times than it does to hit them once.
Not to mention, he's 110. 110 + close range power = you're never getting within that range lmao
0 -
On controller? He'd be in Z tier. He's almost unplayable due to a lack of deadzone controls. You can't reliably keep a stream of knives on survivors since the camera is jittery on a controller. I totall understand that he is playable and even okayish on pc, but he's even less playable than pre changed blight on a controller
0 -
Here's the thing though. If the Trickster player can get into or manufacture chases where the window of opportunity to hit the Survivor is very long, Trickster is much more lethal than any other ranged Killer. Sure, that can be very difficult to do but it isn't impossible. That strength alone makes him... not exactly good, but not the worst either.
Also... If I'm the Trickster, I am running M&A and almost always approaching from behind something. Sure, 4.4 Killers close the distance slower than 4.6 ones, but under those circumstances, the initial distance I need to close is going to be less than 16m. Sometimes a lot less. I get up close all the time as Trickster.
0 -
"If the Trickster player can get into or manufacture chases where the window of opportunity to hit the Survivor is very long, Trickster is much more lethal than any other ranged Killer."
The problem is that to get to scenarios like that, the Survivor will need to run out in the open or use loops with very short walls. And if a Survivor worth their salt understands who Trickster is, they're just gonna, you know, not do that. They'll stay behind high walls, go to jungle gyms, beeline to shack, and so on. It's much less up to the Trickster than it is to the Survivors where they go, since if they know where TO go, Trickster is little more than a 110 M1 Killer.
"Also... If I'm the Trickster, I am running M&A and almost always approaching from behind something."
Oh, boy, have I got some news for you!
Trickster has a lullaby. Yes, you heard me right, as if he weren't already a copy-paste Huntress as-is, he has his own discount lullaby. It sounds nearly identical to the first layer of the Terror Radius music, but without the telltale heartbeat. It reaches out to approximately 32 meters, like a normal Terror Radius, and it is not reduced by TR-altering effects.
Monitor and Abuse? 32-meter lullaby.
Distressing? 32-meter lullaby.
Oblivious? 32-meter lullaby.
Undetectable? 32-meter lullaby.
That MnA you're running isn't helping you. No matter what you bring, you're effectively a 110 Killer with a 115's Terror Radius. Meaning all those times you were able to get in close to Survivors? That was them having a complete lack of situational awareness, not any stealth or element of surprise on your part. They heard you coming as if you were a Trapper, and yet they completely ignored it until you were right there. That is, once again, entirely on them, not on your gumption.
2 -
If the person running Trickster understands the concept of shepherding and can actually do it, it isn't too difficult to push Survivors away from good structures. I'm aware that Killer doesn't always have a ton of control where a chase goes, but they have more control than you seem to think they do. Like... sure the Survivor might feel safe cause they've got a Jungle Gym near the Gen they're on. What exactly are they gonna do if I approach them from that side though? Run past me and feed me a free M1? Nah, they're gonna run the other way and I don't have to deal with the Jungle Gym. If they have another strong structure on the other side... well then I just won't contest that Gen. I've got 6 others. Losing one isn't a big deal.
I actually did know that Trickster has a lullaby. However, nobody ever hears it. Literally. Nobody. It is really really quiet compared to either Huntress's or Freddy's. Heck at one point I was on a stream where the streamer was actively trying to show us the lullaby and I still couldn't hear it. For that reason M&A does in fact help a lot. I've tried running Trickster without M&A... people start running much earlier and Trickster starts sucking because they have the time to get to strong loops. With M&A, they usually don't get anywhere good before I'm on them. On paper, sure you're right... but in practice Trickster's Lullaby is a non issue. Maybe that'll change as Survivors get more used to going against him, but after seeing countless survivors misplay horribly vs Legion before Trickster came out... I don't think that'll happen.
0 -
For your first point, you seem to be placing a LOT of faith in Survivors having extremely terrible pathing and gen spawns HEAVILY favoring you. If they're at a jungle gym (not NEAR one, because be honest with yourself, gens don't spawn NEAR jungle gyms; they spawn IN them) and you approach them from one side, they're just gonna, you know... run to the side of the jungle gym that you're NOT on. Now they have both distance AND a jungle gym to use against you. Congratulations, you're now a 110 M1 Killer who can barely contest. And if they do feed you a free Laceration or M1, guess what? They're gonna use that hit boost to get to a jungle gym/building/high wall/any LOS blocker of any kind, and then you're in trouble again because Trickster's anti-looping capabilities don't magically become stronger against injured Survivors.
For your second point, again, this is ENTIRELY up to Survivors lacking situational awareness, not you being sneaky. I, for one, can hear the lullaby easily, and was aware of it the literal first match I played against him. It might not be the loudest thing in the world, but you know what it is? Distinct and obnoxious. It's very different from the usual background noise you hear in this game, and much like Trickster's TR music, it's annoying as all hell to listen to. It's very, VERY discernible for reasons other than sheer volume.
You are right about one thing, most Survivor players rarely ever learn and adopt counterplay and will usually stay bad. But should we really be basing a Killer's capabilities off of bad, nay, terrible players? Should we really be judging viability off of Survivors who would probably lose to an M1 Nurse? Should we really make balancing decisions off of low levels of play against people who cannot or will not get better and adapt? I don't think so.
1 -
I literally ran around the shack for about a minute until he finally gave me the injured state with his knives.
Then I proceeded to add another minute by running around the main building using cover. And line sight breakers.
0 -
The thing is even if he isint a chase killer he's too slow to pressure others and theres only 2 ways to pressure survivors 1 being in multiple spots at once or being very lethal in chase he is neither
Edit I do agree with the title he had potential but he just can't in his current state
1 -
Its not a case of them having bad pathing, Its a case of me forcing them to either have bad pathing or take a hit. That's not them messing up, that's me outplaying them. As for Gen RNG, sometimes they spawn in jungle gyms, sometimes near them. I don't think I've ever seen ALL the gens do one or the other. There's almost always at least a few exposed Generators and as Trickster, those are the ones you really want to contest. Besides that... like I get that knives at high wall loops aren't great, but its not like Trickster can't pull off at least some normal M1 mindgames and moon walks there to get hits. In fact, since he's medium height instead of tall, he's the best ranged killer at M1 gameplay. I do it pretty frequently in fact. It's my experience that Trickster can either knife spam, or moon walk most tiles in the game. The main exceptions being Shack and some main buildings. As for the using their speed boost to get somewhere strong... firstly that's much less effective vs Trickster than anyone else because he can just keep on throwing knives. Secondly, I personally run Sloppy Butcher, so that if somebody runs to Shack and I tagged them with an M1... well... I can just leave them. Either they'll heal and Sloppy will make it take a long time or they won't and I'll get the down later the next time I ambush them. I don't care which.
You seem to be in the like... 1% or less of Survivors that know the lullaby exists and can hear it. I don't think I've ever noticed a Survivor actually reacting to the lullaby. Even if I get 1 who can... oh well? I've got 3 other targets who likely won't hear it or react to it. I'll be fine. Seriously... Trickster's lullaby is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.
To a certain extent, yes Killers should be balanced with bad Survivors in mind. DBD is not an ultra hardcore competitive game, its a party game. Because of that, the Devs absolutely need to try to keep certain killers from ruining the party vs bad Survivors. I mean... I'm pretty sure that's kinda the whole reason for Bubba getting a rework instead of just buffs. He was oppressive vs bad Survivors but worthless vs good ones. So... they reworked him. Made him stronger but harder.
0 -
So, they either are inside of a jungle gym, meaning that they're already in a favorable spot, and you're already in a bad position against them, or they're out in the open, didn't see you approaching from out in the open, and they let you get so close that you can control and corral them as a 110 Killer. So yes, I would wager that this is ENTIRELY on the Survivors having both bad pathing AND bad situational awareness. There's no outplaying going on here, just the Survivors letting you play in the first place. Sure, Trickster can pull off M1 mindgames, but the reason 110 Killers need strong antiloop powers is because being a 110 M1 Killer vs. a 115 M1 Killer is MASSIVE. A 110 Killer is significantly worse at M1 mindgames because they catch up to the Survivor 33% more slowly. This means that whatever mindgames you can pull off will take much, MUCH longer than if you were 115, meaning that the chase will take very long and you will waste a lot of time. Also, he's not the best ranged M1 Killer in the game, because Demogorgon and Pyramid Head both exist and are 115, which massively outweighs the height advantages at almost all loops. He also doesn't have nearly the zoning potential that Deathslinger does. Also, if you think Sloppy butcher actually slows down healing: Botany Knowledge, Desperate Measures, We'll Make It, group healing, Emergency Medkits, Ranger Medkits, healing speed addons for Medkits, and Inner Strength would BEG to differ.
I really think you're overexaggerating on the "not reacting to the lullaby" anecdote. I don't think Survivors don't hear the lullaby. I think that they do, but because they're cocky and bad at the game, they will ignore it in favor of staying on the gen. Which, again, is entirely, ENTIRELY on them being bad. It really is just a 32-meter uneraseable TR on a 110 Killer.
And last but not least, if you genuinely think the game should be balanced around not average players, not bad players, but the lowest skill bracket of players who will hand wins to a Killer like Trickster, then we have nothing left to discuss.
0 -
He's by far the worst killer in DBD, and it's not even close. Just watch gameplay of top tier players and imagine they just M1'd instead of using knives.. 9.5/10 times it's better to just hit them and stop wasting time. He needs to throw knives without spread/recoil and literally TWICE AS FAST and he'll be fun to play and also good.
1 -
Ok, at this point I gotta ask, how much do you play Killer? And if you do play Killer do you play any of the non invisible stealth killers or Blight?
I'm asking because you seem to be thinking that either they're in a structure and can't see you coming but are safe or they're out in the open and aren't safe but can see you coming from a mile away and literally nothing in between. There is in fact a 3rd option. They're not really near anything they can use to loop and don't see you coming. Most maps have a lot of random level geometry that can't be used to loop. What they can be used for though is to hide yourself while approaching a generator that way you can rob the Survivors of their time to run and still have them in a really bad position when you show up. Myers, GF, Pig, and Blight all need to take advantage of those objects so if you have played them, you should know just how many of them laying around there are. If you don't play one of those 4 then I can understand not getting this.
0 -
I only play Killer because Survivor is boring. And I don't play stealth Killers precisely because stealth in this game is a complete joke and having eyes of any kind will render Undetectable a useless status effect unless you're playing on five of the thirty-six maps that are indoors. As for Blight... he moves at over double the Survivors' running speed. I don't NEED to be stealthy when I play Blight.
0 -
That's not quite what I was getting at for Blight... but I had a feeling something like that would be the answer. Yes you don't need to be stealthy as Blight, but you do need to bounce off of all the random stuff in the map to keep your Rush going.
Speaking as someone who has played Myers, Pig, and Legion with stealth perks way too much... most of the random level geometry that aren't part of a loop are big enough to conceal killers as they approach generators and there is a LOT of it on most maps. If I'm approaching from an angle that puts a tree or rock or something between me and the Gen, any Survivor on that gen won't be able to see me and be able to just run off. Also, if all the Survivor has to work off of are the omni directional warnings that I'm coming... well... then they have to guess which way to go. Sometimes they guess wrong and that results in a stupidly easy hit. It is honestly pretty easy to do that sort of thing on most maps. Not all maps mind you... but most. Ormond, Rotten Fields, and Shelter Woods in particular make stealth play nearly impossible... but the vast majority of maps are at least workable for stealth.
Having eyes DOES NOT counter Killer stealth if the Killer is good at concealing their model behind stuff as they approach.
That's how I'm able to ambush people in places that are good for me as Trickster. They neither hear nor see me coming until I'm 16 meters away, at which point they can't get anywhere safe against me. They aren't messing up... I'm purposely robbing them of the info they'd need to not get caught out. Sure, Spine Chill, Premonition, and maybe new OoO make this not work, but most red rank Survivors aren't running those perks. Seriously, this is stealth killer 101. Trickster isn't exactly a stealth killer, but 16m TR on a ranged killer is close enough.
0 -
I'm sorry, you can talk about how good and sneaky you are all you want and how map geometry is really great for stealth Killers even though stealth Killers are in fact a complete meme the majority of the time. It changes nothing. Maybe it's just because I despise stealth Killers almost as much as I despise immersed Survivors so I make sure to always look around on a gen, but in my experience, it is so, SO easy to counter any and all stealth. The only viable stealth Killer in this entire game is Wraith, and that's because he is completely invisible until he gets close and then swoops in at Sprint Burst speed. Everyone else simply does not have enough objects to conceal the majority of their approaches as they get close unless the generator is inside of a jungle gym. It's just not realistic nor possible. Most gens are out in the open. It's not hard to rotate your mouse and look around.
And that's not even factoring in the fact that Spine Chill just, you know, exists. And contrary to what you claim, Spine Chill is in fact a Perk that red rank players enjoy running.
Trickster is a 110 Killer with a 32-meter Terror Radius, regardless of what Perks you equip. You HAVE to be bad to get stealthed by a Trickster. The sheer lack of situational awareness it requires is phenomenal. The fact of the matter is, most Survivors just have that phenomenal lack, because most Survivors are in fact terrible.
0 -
So... Essentially what has happened here is that you are doubling down that killer stealth doesn't ever work in spite of you never trying it?
Really?
Surely you can at least see how weak a position that is... Right? I mean, how can you hope to accurately judge something if you refuse to experience it?
I'm not saying you need to try stealth killers. People are allowed to have their own likes and dislikes and stick to them. I just don't think you have a leg to stand on with this assertion you are making.
0 -
I mained Myers for a time. I one-tricked Ghostface for months on end. I sought Pig help from Peppa Pigsaw, a former Pig main who used to be on the top of the Pig main roster. I can probably get more marked stabs than 95% of Ghostface mains.
I know what I'm talking about when I say that stealth Killers are a joke.
0 -
You my friend were facing a TERRIBLE Trickster
0 -
There is no lullaby.... Please stop spreading false information. Where is the evidence~??????????
0 -
Well according to the wiki he does have one, there is even a sound sample on how it sounds: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Ji-Woon_Hak
0 -
Why though???? That's so stupid lol
1 -
Same tbh, I don't get why Death Slinger is allowed to run around with a 24m(16 with monitor) tr but Trickster gets gimped with a lullaby for no real reason.
0 -
This guy gets it! Trickster is dope, and balanced well for the game
1 -
Exactly, DS has a 16 m TR in monitor, with his gun having a max range of 18m, meaning you can snipe a Survivor off a gen with no indication you were attempting to do so, unless a perk like SC was in play. Seems very unfair, considering Tricksters lethality at range is miniscule.
1 -
To be fair, in game the lullaby is not nearly as obvious as the sound clip on the wiki implies. I'm able to get close to people with minimal trouble as M&A Trickster.
0 -
Dude if you're not rank 1 with this killer I don't think your opinion on his true strength has any value. I have no reason to believe your words are more right than anyone elses
0 -
Considering that it sounds very similar to the first layer of his TR, M&A still throws people off due to it making it sound like you're further away than you actually are... doesn't change however how it's silly it's a mechanic to begin with, not to mention that it's incredibly unnecessary due to Tricksters effective range being somewhat akin to Death Slinger who doesn't have anything like this.
0 -
I'm rank 1, have over 3k hours, play DBD for at least 3 hours a day, and have been playing since march 2019. I play him almost exclusively, and almost never de - rank back to 2.
1 -
Respect actually, before I assumed you were another person complaining on this forum.
0 -
Its ok lol, its hard to get points across on here lol, as "text" can often seem hard to believe lol.
0 -
How about the PTB patch notes where it is specifically mentioned in the bug fixes section?
0 -
Its ok i have checked now and he does have one, i made a forum poll on removing it, sorry had no idea.
0 -
All good. Most people probably either mistook it for his Terror Radius since it's practically the exact same audio just without the heartbeat or just never went against it because no one plays Trickster.
0 -
Except me, play him everyday and kick ass at rank 1... 3k hrs though
0 -
Same story. Every single rank 1 4k I get with Trickster brutally reminds me of how little ranks matter.
0 -
But what about when you face people with the same if not more hrs then you?
0 -
I rarely do, because ranks don't matter. I don't even bother to check because I don't see the point.
0
