http://dbd.game/killswitch
I think that Dead Hard and NOED may have the exact same issues
Hey, it's me, the entitled guy again.
I noticed this recently while thinking about arguments against DH, and trying to explain why it generally feels like you've been cheated when it's used against you, and then I realized how incredibly similar it was to NOED in function if not form.
I'll go over the main points, cause I don't have any skill when it comes to writing and this seems to be the only way I can present an argument.
- They both reward you for failure. NOED rewards you with easy downs and extra speed if you let the EGC start, which requires you to either "let" all the gens go or close the hatch. DH rewards you with extra distance and let's you stay up when you would normally go down (I'm dancing around the term "third healthstate" here) if you get injured.
- They both have inconsistent counters. They both require you to know about the perk beforehand. I don't even need to explain this point, really. "Just do bones" and "Just bait it out" are equally stupid "counters" no matter what you say. You can't cleanse all the totems yourself unless you ignore gens (or run Counterforce), and half the killer attack animations give the survivors enough information to press E before the hit lands.
- Neither of them require much skill to get significant use out of them. NOED doesn't require you to change your playstyle at all to get use out of it (unless you're playing as an instadown killer), since it just makes all survivors exposed and makes the killer faster. DH just requires you to have basic timing and perception skills and the ability to consistently not run into walls.
- They both remove a good deal of agency from the other side. Killer is based almost completely on punishing mistakes, to the point that what qualifies as an S tier killer is just being not entirely reliant upon survivors screwing up. With how much time it usually takes to maneuver into a position that can guarantee a hit, missing when you do that can actually cost you the game. Everyone already knows how NOED works at this point.
- They're both horribly inconsistent to use somehow. Dedicated servers can easily make you their ######### if you're a DH user, and often will. If the survivors are really on the ball (which ironically is the only time NOED should work) they can work together to cleanse your totems. Admittedly, you kinda deserve it if it doesn't work, but it's still annoying as ######### when it happens.
Comments
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Honestly? Yeah, I've though this way for awhile now.
The only difference is that Dead Hard is an actual good perk, while NOED can only get you maybe one pity kill.
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Yes, most people agree that NOED is the one true second chance perk that killers have, although Spirit Fury does sort of fit the catagory.
Of course, an entire catagory of survivor perks also fit this description, it's just that Dead Hard is the poster child because it's in every single trial on multiple people, it's so direct, repeatable and has no other uses, unlike BT and DS which both exist to punish or protect from certain kinds of killers.
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Yeah. Also, you get bullied and made fun of for running NOED, but DH is not only fine but expected.
Also, you reminded me to write the point about how inconsistent for the user as well, so thank you that.
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No problem.
I believe for your above mentioned reasons, both Dead Hard and Noed need a rework.
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As I've said in another post:
Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" is like saying "just do bones against NOED." It's inconsistent counterplay.
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What they have in common is entitled, people endlessly whining about them. Both Perks are fine.
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You can't cleanse all the totems yourself unless you ignore gens (or run Counterforce)
you know detective's hunch is in the game and is way better right?
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Yeah just leave the perks alone. There's things in this game that I'm way more concerned about and that we should be more focused on addressing than DH and NOED.
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At first I was confused how you came to this slution but this makes sense
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I feel they are both valuable Perks and have decent counterplay, neither will make you win but they can save something sometimes. Just because EGC started doesn't mean the match is over. NOED and DH are Fair game like any other perk.
Honestly Survivors don't like NOED for 2 reasons, they haven't been hooked at all or they actually think EGC doesn't matter and they've already won, regarding the first case yeah it sucks regarding the second i think it's time BHVR made changes to EGC so that people take it as a serious part of the match. Survivors have no reason to not do Totems, the worse that happens is you cleansed Haunted Grounds and now it's 60 seconds of 1 shots, downing 4 survivors in 60 isn't that easy. NOED isn't used so often in the higher ranks, it tends to be more popular in lower ranks because it's a free Perk, there aren't manny of those and that are useful, sloppy is probably the best free perk followed by Whispers so in comparison to all the DLC perks even NOED is not worth running.
Pig once upon a time was the sole Queen of EGC wich was problematic but now unless people manage to pull off Bloodwarden plays, there really isn't an EGC just Survivors wasting time at gates by not leaving wich forces the killer into an awkward situation if they have somebody hooked or slugged.
Killers don't mind facing DH when DH is used as it should, to avoid a Hit, what Killers hate is that DH can be used for Distance, wich can make a Survivor reach another loop like shack or another safe loop wich just extends the chase for indefinit amount of time and is very punishing for Killer. I think it would be nice to test a new version of DH where it is used automatically when injured if the killer is swinging at you. This keeps the perk working the same but removes the manual activation so that it can't be used outside of evading a hit and by being automatic then it means the server can't really miss a DH right? You're not gonna end up exhausted on the ground. Could be an interesting change.
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Imagine every 40s you could press e to insta down a surivor sounds fair
That's deadhard
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No, not it isn't. :) I play both Killer and Survivor. I take on pretty much nothing but Red Rank Survivors with the odd Purples thrown in. Dead Hard is a regular part of the loadout. It is just something you learn to work around. Dead Hard does not guarantee an escape anymore than NOED guarantees a Kill.
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No it dosent guarantee an escape it extends it by like 20s+ just like hot that would end it quicker
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So? Longer matches means more points and emblem advancement for the Killer. Do you know how many matches I could end in 3-5 minutes that I stretch to 10+ just to maximize Pips? Besides, everyone "good" uses Dead Hard the same way, i.e. as an extension to try to make a vault or a pallet, etc. The moment you see that you can just not waste the swing. They will waste the Dead Hard. They don't really have a choice because I'll just keep coming until I'm literally touching them to get them to use it. If they don't, then I hit them.
All Perks, tactics, etc. can be annoying. Dead Hard used properly definitely extends chases, but again... SO WHAT? Are you in that big a hurry? If you are Herding your Survivors properly the chases are going to your next Generator to check on your route anyway. If you keep proper pressure up, who cares if the odd chase goes long? I'm not making light of your frustration; I'm saying it isn't that big a deal.
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i don't mind getting rid of both tbh
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Don't see a use Dead hard is the most over rated perk for survivors. I think sprint burst is a more effective perk than DH since when you get near a gen and a survivor sprint burst away. But I think NOED is not comparable since DH won't guarantee you an escape, while NOED will more often than not guarantee bad killers a down. I even seen a NOED killers get a 4k while they only get 1 hook the whole game to a 4k. But NOED rewards bad killers more often than not meaning campers and killers that are not good in general.
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